Would you replace a G1 with a TZ3 ? Need help/advise

ericN2 said:

Have you actually ever tried a G7 with either a high-angle shoot
(over your head) or a low-angle (waitst-level) ??
It is actually VERY usable , and whilst not of course like having the
old flip-and-twist , it is actually a MUCH better LCD for it - bigger
size than could ever be so on the camera as a flip-type , and an
excellent improved resolutiion than ever the old ones were. Maybe
Canon DO know what they're doing - it's a lot of buyers that DON'T
understand and appreciate the merits.

Click to expand...

This LCD appears to be the same one that is fitted as flip-and-twist to the S5.
It could have been done

Did you test the Fuji F30? Because i haven't foudn anything better yet around this time, although it now is also an old camera.

But i would say, wait for this months new camera (a G9 is coming up and i'm still hoping for a S90 ). Or see if you can get your hands on a second hand G3/G5, S60/S70.
--
---Gek Zijn Is Gezond---
http://www.gekzijnisgezond.nl - MG van Leeuwen

Hi,

no i havent tested a Fuji F30 yet.

Due to the fact i do want a "good" video-modus the older cameras with less than 640x480 (at 30fps) arent the way to go for me.

But you are right. Maybe just have to wait a bit so Canon is able to "present" the camera i want

Most do not know that Panny has this:
From dpreview:

"The 230,000 pixel 3.0-inch screen is even better than the excellent LCD used on the TZ1; bright, clear and fast-moving.

Like the TZ1 it has a special mode that allows you to see it from an acute angle when the camera is held above your head.

We found the screen worked very well in low light, gaining up well, but glare is an inevitable problem when shooting in very bright, direct light."

Also:

By pressing and holding the Display/LCD button you can increase brightness or choose a special setting to view the LCD as you hold it overhead. The latter is so bright that it washes out the LCD when viewed straight-on, but from below, the monitor is clear and perfectly usable.

Tom,

The last time I downloaded and printed some of your comparison pics you were comparing the Pro1, S5 and TZ3. I printed at 6x4 and the results to my eyes were so close that you convinced me to buy the TZ3. This outcome may not have been your intention, but I was, and still am, grateful for all your efforts in providing this info.

But my gratitude does not detract from me thinking that your enthusiasm for ultimate IQ encourages you to grossly exagerate the differences - which I admit do exist - and tends to undermine any objectivity in all this.

Agree that the TZ3 IQ is not always quite up there with the very, very best, but the differences are so small that most people would not be able to identify which shot came from which camera in a 'blind' test.

Good luck with your quest for your Holy Grail, but along your journey I don't think the TZ3 deserves to be labelled as producing the worst contrast of any compact. As for you being fed up with PPing, I thought you guys thrived on it.

Nick

Nick -

NIK11 said:

As for you being fed up with PPing, I thought you guys thrived on it.

Click to expand...

I did it - was forced to of course - for maybe 30 years or so in film days - what's odd about it.

In my book , anybody who is not prepared to do PP-ing is just not what I call a photographer. It doesn't have to be any gross complication .. just adding the finishing touch that no mechanics can provide.

--
eric-UK
I may not be there yet, but I'm closer than I was yesterday.

Nick,

NIK11 said:

The last time I downloaded and printed some of your comparison pics you were comparing the Pro1, S5 and TZ3. I printed at 6x4 and the results to my eyes were so close that you convinced me to buy the TZ3. This outcome may not have been your intention, but I was, and still am, grateful for all your efforts in providing this info.

Click to expand...

My intent was to show everyone what each camera could do -- I'm not really "playing favorites" as such, but rather just trying to explain things as I understand them, and hoping that folks will find that information useful in their purchasing and usage of these cameras.

NIK11 said:

But my gratitude does not detract from me thinking that your enthusiasm for ultimate IQ encourages you to grossly exagerate the differences - which I admit do exist - and tends to undermine any objectivity in all this.

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I'm just trying to provide "perspective" as I understand it. For instance, the OP mentioned moving from a Canon "G-series" camera -- essentially the top of Canon's line when that camera was sold. I presume someone who popped for a G-series might be more interested in "ultimage image quality" than, say, someone talking about the differences between the TZ3 and some kind of equivalent camera such as the digital ELPHs.

NIK11 said:

Agree that the TZ3 IQ is not always quite up there with the very, very best, but the differences are so small that most people would not be able to identify which shot came from which camera in a 'blind' test.

Click to expand...

I would disagree with that. I think my S5/TZ3 tests showed the S5 to have noticeably better image quality in virtually every compared images I posted. "Small" might be the word for differences in some comparisons, but for others -- especially ones like the Ferris Wheel shot -- there is truly a rather large difference.

NIK11 said:

Good luck with your quest for your Holy Grail, but along your journey I don't think the TZ3 deserves to be labelled as producing the worst contrast of any compact.

Click to expand...

I'm not even talking about "ultimate" image quality -- the TZ3 does what it does, and I don't really think I'm blowing anything out of proportion. I'll admit that I haven't had experience with "every" compact camera, of course, but the TZ3's contrast is far "higher" than anything I've ever used, that much is sure. In the end, I believe I have described the TZ3's native image quality quite accurately. For anyone truly concerned about image quality, it's something about the TZ3 they really ought to be aware of.
--
Tom Hoots
My PBase galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/thoots

jimr said:

With all due respect. Look at ALL the latest Panny P&S Optics test
ratings on this site. Look at ALL the latest Optics test ratings for
the Canon P&S cameras on this site In virtually every case the Panny
lens scores higher than the Canon lens. Now IF Panny finally gets a
better sensor

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You've summarized the issue in a nutshell. You can have the greatest optics in the world but if your sensor isn't up to snuff, or your Venus or Digic processor does do a good job...well......

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Pany TZ3, Canon SD700 & S2, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/index.php

Tom Hoots said:

I would disagree with that. I think my S5/TZ3 tests showed the S5 to
have noticeably better image quality in virtually every compared
images I posted.

Click to expand...

My take is that the image quality of the TZ3 is not as consistent or predictable as Canon cameras once you take the Pany out of good light. I have found the TZ3 is capable of very, very good image quality but it can be hit and miss. I'm glad I didn't have it when I took the following shot (with my S2):



But, in good light, it's difficult to beat the near-ideal zoom range of the TZ3!

http://www.pbase.com/gailb/tz3fav

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Pany TZ3, Canon SD700 & S2, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/index.php

sorrie but i would not recommend any pana compacts to my friends.

i have a G2 and got a TZ1 (previois version of TZ3) cuz my dad love its compactness and lecia lens.

the worst of all of this pana compact is its noise and noise processing.

u can see noise, in some situation, even at ISO 80. the way that pana handle the noise reduction really make the IQ even worser... you can see the water color feel beyond ISO 100. beyond ISO200 it is marginally unacceptable to my taste.

wish that help your decision.

xyt said:

Hi,

no i havent tested a Fuji F30 yet.
Due to the fact i do want a "good" video-modus the older cameras with
less than 640x480 (at 30fps) arent the way to go for me.

But you are right. Maybe just have to wait a bit so Canon is able to
"present" the camera i want

Click to expand...

gail said:

Member said:

My take is that the image quality of the TZ3 is not as consistent or

Click to expand...

predictable as Canon cameras once you take the Pany out of good
light. I have found the TZ3 is capable of very, very good image
quality but it can be hit and miss. I'm glad I didn't have it when I
took the following shot (with my S2):



But, in good light, it's difficult to beat the near-ideal zoom range
of the TZ3!

Click to expand...

Completely agree with you Gail. During these discussions perhaps we should remind ourselve that some cameras are designed for technical excellence whilst others are designed for convenience and the ability to capture the moment.

There is little mileage in buying a sports car then complaining you can't get grandma's wheelchair in it. Horses for courses. The TZ3 offers more than it takes away.

However, if Canon were to show a little enterprise and innovation (like Pana) and produce a compact 'A' series with 28-200 lens AND an OVF, then I would lead the queue.

Nick

I'm about to go to the grocery store. In my left pocket will be a billfold and pocket PC, the diminutive T-Mobile Dash (itself roughly the size of a very slim wallet) In my right pocket will be a TZ3 w/ a 2GB microSD+SD adapter. I can comfortably carry this combination all day. I can shoot an image with the TZ3, place the microSD into the Dash and send it via e-mail or FTP. I don't have to make special plans. The camera is there and ready.

Therein lies the power of the TZ3, at least for me. I'd never purchased a non-Canon digital before the TZ3. I hope Canon has something in the works equivalent that will improve on the TZ3's deficiencies (low light performance, mainly). Till then, I can't fit an S5 IS in my pocket.

If you have to go Canon then that would be similar in size to the G1 but lacks the 28mm lens.

You might just want to hold off for a couple of weeks though as there is something in the wind with Canon's camera lineup. Usually when prices drop on Canon cameras it is an indication that they may be about to be replace and the G5 has been dropping in price....oddly so has the G7 granted in our case (Canada) it could be a leveling of the playing field in terms of exchange rates though B&H is reported to have dropped the price on the G7.

Having said that I own a Panasonic and find it quite good, but I guess what I would call the firmware in the camera isn't quite as good as Canon's but not way off. At least nothing that I can't fix in post processing.

Re the fellow that posted the examples, I've seen similar problems with pix from our news photographers and they are shooting with 1D MK II's and D2H's so when you have bad backlighting such as the ferris wheel pic you're going to have issues with something, either loose the sky or plug the shadows.

Kevin

This is interesting, I compared your photos and I notice that the differences are a lot less pronounced when I view your photos in Photoshop CS vs looking at them within my browser window on the forum.

For the Burger King shot I prefer the original as the sky looks really washed out in the enhanced version. Granted depends perhaps on how/what kind of monitor you are using.

Below is a screen grab of how your files opened.

Kevin