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Fox News Cameraman Cuffed Tape Seized---Opinions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Burns
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John Burns said:
Man you are scary. No one has been hateful to you here. We keep
presenting facts refuting your statements and you keep avoiding
responding to them. When you make obviously false statements in an
open forum those statements will be challenged. Get used to it.
Click to expand...
Your comments have made your attitude very clear. And you continue to twist the truth to suit your philosophy to make you feel good about yourself.

It's okay to be a non believer, that's between you and your maker, not between me and you.

The facts are two fold and they are, the founding fathers, intended this country to be a Christian nation and this is a photographic forum.

I won't expect you to get used to it.
 
Hamilton. Oh yeah. He fought the duel with Aaron Burr. Apparently he wasn't very good at dueling. The duel was fought at Weehawken on the New Jersey shore of the Hudson River opposite New York City. At forty-nine, Hamilton was shot, fell mortally wounded, and died the following day, July 12th, 1804. It is unanimously reported that Hamilton himself did not intend to fire, his pistol going off involuntarily as he fell.

New Jersey isn't in France.
Thomas Gardner said:
John Burns said:
HA HA HA!! Man you are something!! Thomas Jefferson died at his
estate at Monticello, Virginia on July 4, 1826.
Click to expand...
Forgive me as I must have confused Hamilton with Jefferson.
Click to expand...
--John
 
Don't put words in my mouth. You have no idea of my beliefs as I have never stated them in this or any other forum. If, however, you are referring to my believing anything you have posted in this thread, to that I plead guilty. The problem for you is that your befiefs about the founding fathers can not stand up to the facts. Your solution is to ignore those facts. Fine. Do so quietly so as not to mislead others.
Thomas Gardner said:
It's okay to be a non believer, that's between you and your maker,
not between me and you.
Click to expand...
--John
 
Thomas Gardner said:
The facts are two fold and they are, the founding fathers, intended
this country to be a Christian nation and this is a photographic
forum.
Click to expand...
Neither is a fact. The first is clearly arguable, the second is just plain inaccurate.

So here is a little bit of info that addresses the first issue.

Go read about the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. Unaminously approved by the Senate on June 10, 1797. I quote Article 11 from the English version of the treaty as presented to the Senate.

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries”

As to your second 'fact', here is a more accurate statement of fact: Open Talk is a forum on a web site for digital photography that at times diverges from discussions of photography.

Mike Roberts
 
John Burns said:
Hamilton. Oh yeah. He fought the duel with Aaron Burr.
Apparently he wasn't very good at dueling. The duel was fought at
Weehawken on the New Jersey shore of the Hudson River opposite New
York City. At forty-nine, Hamilton was shot, fell mortally wounded,
and died the following day, July 12th, 1804. It is unanimously
reported that Hamilton himself did not intend to fire, his pistol
going off involuntarily as he fell.

New Jersey isn't in France.
Click to expand...
I have it as either Hamilton or Jefferson that kept going over to France and was a very unhappy camper. So you have me on that particular point as I was clearly in error.

My premise is still accurate as this quote is supportive of.

"... I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

—Letter to Benjamin Rush, American physician and political leader, Sept. 23, 1800

If the man was anti religion, it was not shown in the quote of his above in 1800 which was years before he began to question religion which all men of faith will do. Your cited quote was from 1823 I think. The quoted citation was just ten years after RI ratified the Constitution. He was a religious man that question religion, that doesn't mean that he and others did not intend for this to be a Christinan nation.

This comment was also found among Jefferson's papers.

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
—Saying found among Jefferson's papers, date unknown

These are the comments of a God fearing man not a person that is denying the existance of a God.

This is a photographic forum and it seems you don't like that. This is not a forum for political discussion. A comment here or there is acceptable but this is not a forum for full blown debate with URL's and quotations.

Do you have anything photographic to talk about?
 
Mike Roberts said:
Thomas Gardner said:
The facts are two fold and they are, the founding fathers, intended
this country to be a Christian nation and this is a photographic
forum.
Click to expand...
Neither is a fact. The first is clearly arguable, the second is
just plain inaccurate.

So here is a little bit of info that addresses the first issue.

Go read about the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. Unaminously approved by
the Senate on June 10, 1797. I quote Article 11 from the English
version of the treaty as presented to the Senate.

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as
it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion
or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have
entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan
nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the
harmony existing between the two countries”
Click to expand...
Here's a URL to the whole story.

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/june_july97/tripoli.html

Notice how the Atheists have picked up on this. I wonder why that is?

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9885.htm
Mike Roberts said:
As to your second 'fact', here is a more accurate statement of
fact: Open Talk is a forum on a web site for digital photography
that at times diverges from discussions of photography.

Mike Roberts
Click to expand...
If Phil doesn't mind a divergence then I won't either.
 
Thomas Gardner said:
Mike Roberts said:
Thomas Gardner said:
The facts are two fold and they are, the founding fathers, intended
this country to be a Christian nation and this is a photographic
forum.
Click to expand...
Neither is a fact. The first is clearly arguable, the second is
just plain inaccurate.

So here is a little bit of info that addresses the first issue.

Go read about the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. Unaminously approved by
the Senate on June 10, 1797. I quote Article 11 from the English
version of the treaty as presented to the Senate.

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as
it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion
or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have
entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan
nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the
harmony existing between the two countries”
Click to expand...
Here's a URL to the whole story.

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/june_july97/tripoli.html

Notice how the Atheists have picked up on this. I wonder why that is?

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9885.htm
Thomas Gardner said:
As to your second 'fact', here is a more accurate statement of
fact: Open Talk is a forum on a web site for digital photography
that at times diverges from discussions of photography.

Mike Roberts
Click to expand...
If Phil doesn't mind a divergence then I won't either.
Click to expand...
 
Thomas Gardner said:
Mike Roberts said:
Thomas Gardner said:
The facts are two fold and they are, the founding fathers, intended
this country to be a Christian nation and this is a photographic
forum.
Click to expand...
Neither is a fact. The first is clearly arguable, the second is
just plain inaccurate.

So here is a little bit of info that addresses the first issue.

Go read about the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. Unaminously approved by
the Senate on June 10, 1797. I quote Article 11 from the English
version of the treaty as presented to the Senate.

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as
it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion
or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have
entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan
nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the
harmony existing between the two countries”
Click to expand...
Here's a URL to the whole story.

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/june_july97/tripoli.html
Click to expand...
One website does not make the whole story.

http://www.freethought-web.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tripoli1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/boston4.htm
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/june_july97/tripoli.html
http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/tripoli.html
http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/treaty_of_tripoli.php
http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

Mike Roberts
 
Mike Roberts said:
One website does not make the whole story.

http://www.freethought-web.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tripoli1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/boston4.htm
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/june_july97/tripoli.html
http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/tripoli.html
http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/treaty_of_tripoli.php
http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

Mike Roberts
Click to expand...
One web site does make a whole story as the many will lend confusion. This quote from your citation which was the same citation that I posted.

Only since about 1930 has it become clear to scholars that the Arabic parallel to the English Article XI is not the original of the supposed quotation but has no relation to it. There is no Article XI in the original Arabic, and in its place is a crude letter of no importance from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. This discrepancy remains a mystery to this day.

You might also read the part about George Washingtons ire. Why do you think that might be? Why do you think most these links are to anti-religious groups.

Now I'm a religious person that won't belong to organized religious groups because of the hypocracy. How say you. Are you a religious person? Are you a believer of the Christian faith or any faith? Are you a non believer in a higher power?
 
..so... where's that digital picture of you, Thomas - the one titled "Thomas G. on a Soap Box" - just to keep things digital!
 
..and again: To keep things digital - as you, Thomas, are stating: Where is the "Thomas G. on a Soap Box" digital image? - Now come on...show your true self...
 
..so..for crying out loud, Thomas... post that picture of yourself: "Thomas G. on a Soap Box"!
 
It is so hard to make a point when you constantly misrepresent not only the words but the meaning of everything anyone posts. No one anywhere in this thread EVER claimed that Jefferson, or any other, founding father was anti religion. No one in this thread EVER claimed that any of the founding fathers did not be,ieve in God. Your problem is if someone doesn't follow your particular version of religion than they are automatically non religious. A view that I find arrogant in the extreme. I hate to be the one to break it to you but there are millions more people that believe in God but are not Christian then there are Christians. You on the other hand claimed the founding fathers were Christian. That is false.
Thomas Gardner said:
My premise is still accurate as this quote is supportive of.

"... I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against
every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
—Letter to Benjamin Rush, American physician and political leader,
Sept. 23, 1800

If the man was anti religion, it was not shown in the quote of his
above in 1800 which was years before he began to question religion
which all men of faith will do. Your cited quote was from 1823 I
think. The quoted citation was just ten years after RI ratified
the Constitution. He was a religious man that question religion,
that doesn't mean that he and others did not intend for this to be
a Christinan nation.

This comment was also found among Jefferson's papers.

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
—Saying found among Jefferson's papers, date unknown

These are the comments of a God fearing man not a person that is
denying the existance of a God.
Click to expand...
--John
 
I'll answer that but you won't like it. They pick up on it to defend themselves from people who feel it is necessary to cram their particular version of religion down everyone elses throat.
Thomas Gardner said:
Thomas Gardner said:
Thomas Gardner wrote:

Mike Roberts wrote:
“Article 11. As the government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as
it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion
or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have
entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan
nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the
harmony existing between the two countries”
Click to expand...
Thomas Gardner wrote:
Notice how the Atheists have picked up on this. I wonder why that is?
Click to expand...
--John
 
Stop trying to make sense. :) In defense I can remember 150 post threads over battery life. At least this thread is a bit higher on the entertainment scale and the issue is probably a bit more important. So far at least there are no Alkaline suicide bombers thying to blow up NiMH users.
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
John, Mike, Thomas ... do you really think you are going to change
each other's opinion? Just agree to disagree ... this thread is
turning into a waste of perfectly good bandwidth :)
Karl
--
[email protected] (Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.)
http://www.ktimmerman.com
http://www.pbase.com/heinzi
Click to expand...
--John
 
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