G7 - Standard workflow after compensating for blown highlights

Hi all

Like many other G7 users I am spending some time trying to avoid blown highligts. Usually compensating by -1/3 or even -2/3 helps (using "vivid colors" seems to require more compensation) but it forces me to spend more time on postprocessing than I had hoped for .. all pictures must be adjusted to get back the original light of the scene. And I'm not particular good at PP.

So .. I was wondering if any of you had developed a "standard routine" you go through, maybe before doing anything else ? eg. "I always up shadow and mid-tone by x% in levels" or "using auto yyy in PSE will do the trick for me"

Ole

I also tend more often than not to dial in a bit of underexposure (although sometimes go the other way). I guess the best advice is to take a good look at the histogram before you press the shutter, and also think carefully about which of the three exposure modes will serve best - ESP is not always the most appropriate.

Much easier to get it as right as possible in the camera than it is to sort out in software afterwards - esp given lack of RAW which would give more lattitude for error.

Another possibility I've experimented with for first time this weekend is HDR, using Photomatix - which is actually quite a breeze. The following is one of my first efforts with G7, using 3 bracketed exposures ranging from + - 1 1/3 EV. It's possibly a bit "too much" but could probably now be toned down a little in PSE or similar package.

Another tip is to bracket your important shots. It makes life easier to pick out the best of three similar exposures.
--
5D and G7
Happy together.

is that any camera's images benefits from good post processing. I can't emphasize the importance of learning Photoshop enough. It is the best and all images need it, regardless of what others say. Incamera work on images is inferior and I would strongly emphasize the use of 0 settings except for EC. If you read enough and do a lot of searches you will see many others saying the same. And, no offense, but bracketing, while it is good at times, does nothing toward creating a good image other than forcing more and less light.
--
Russ

While I can see the appeal of letting the camera attempt to sort things out, I don't think that is usually the best way. I agree with Russ that PhotoShop (or any other good editing program) is essential if you want the best results. I also agree with Savras that bracketing is an excellent thing to do, for high-key images. You can even bracket images hand-held, without a tripod, if you're willing to "register" them and blend them.

I like to use EV of - 1/3 for most images, and EV of -2/3 for really high-key images. With the G7, I also turn contrast back at least to "minus 1/2", the first stop to the left of the default contrast in "My Colors". I also turn sharpness back, but that's to minimize noise, not to avoid blown highlights.

Back to the highlights situation Move the sliders in so they're just a little bit off the zero lines on the right and left of the histogram. Now move the mid-range slider to the left enough so your image is properly exposed.

Are highlights blown? If so, go back a step, duplicate the background layer, move the R and L sliders in as described above. ==> Leave the midrange slider alone! Save the image as "Highlights", with your original file number (so it might be "Highlights_3132.jpg"). You can leave the edited image righ up on your screen.

From here there are several ways to proceed. One simple way - I don't recommend this but it is easy to learn, and it works for most images - is to select out the highlights in your "Highlights_3132" image and feather the selection by about 5-8 pixels, then ==> Invert the selection

A better way would be to create your "Highlights..." image as described above, create a "Midrange" or "Shadows" image, and blend them. That sounds complex and difficult at first but once you've done it a few times it's easy and relatively quick - takes perhaps 2-3 minutes max.

Starting with your still-open "Highlights..." image, here's what to do: Move the mid-range slider toward the left so your image is properly exposed. Name this "Midrange_3132.jpg" for example. Save it.

Now you can blend those two images. I like to use the "painting in" technique, but there are several ways of doing this.

If you need to know how to blend images, e-mail me privately and I'll send you a workflow for that. Same with "registering" bracketed images which have been shot hand-held.

ole2010 said:

Like many other G7 users I am spending some time trying to avoid
blown highligts. Usually compensating by -1/3 or even -2/3 helps
(using "vivid colors" seems to require more compensation) but it
forces me to spend more time on postprocessing than I had hoped for

Click to expand...

Getting the right exposure with EV is key. I'd also back off the contrast to -1 (1 peg left of center). This still provides the "Canon look" and will help retain detail in the highlights. The high-key elements may still be very bright, but at least now they aren't blowtorch-white, and now are eggshell-white with a bit of detail.

rkhndjr said:

is that any camera's images benefits from good post processing. I
can't emphasize the importance of learning Photoshop enough. It is
the best and all images need it, regardless of what others say.
Incamera work on images is inferior and I would strongly emphasize
the use of 0 settings except for EC. If you read enough and do a lot
of searches you will see many others saying the same. And, no
offense, but bracketing, while it is good at times, does nothing
toward creating a good image other than forcing more and less light.
--
Russ

Click to expand...

Respectfully disagree. One of the great things about G7 is how it allows the photographer to obtain satisfactory results with MINIMAL post processing, if any at all. Usually, just one round of sharpening. To which bracketing in challenging light maintains this unique capability. For emphasis, I attach photos as shot, save for size reduction and one round of sharpening:









--
5D and G7
Happy together.

I second this completely. And I'll occasionally use exposure bracketing if I suspect a problem, but it's usually too late with I think of it.

Precious workflows spoil the fun of it all. So you lose an occasional image -- not a calamity.
--
http://www.pbase.com/morepix

Usually highlights are blown because the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor. The best way to avoid blown highlights is to avoid scenes with major differences between the lightest and darkest parts. The other way is to do something to reduce contrast, such as fill flash, graduated neutral density filters, blending in post-processing, reflectors or diffusers, waiting for different lighting, etc.

Bracketing or other exposure techniques will not really help if there are large areas of the scene that are very bright compared to the rest of the scene. Either you'll blow highlights or lose significant detail in the darker parts of the scene.

Savas Kyprianides said:

Respectfully disagree. One of the great things about G7 is how it
allows the photographer to obtain satisfactory results with MINIMAL
post processing, if any at all. Usually, just one round of
sharpening. To which bracketing in challenging light maintains this
unique capability. For emphasis, I attach photos as shot, save for
size reduction and one round of sharpening:

Click to expand...

Great pics!

What settings of contrast, sharpness, saturation did you use for those?

richarddd said:

Usually highlights are blown because the dynamic range of the scene
exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor. The best way to avoid blown
highlights is to avoid scenes with major differences between the
lightest and darkest parts. The other way is to do something to
reduce contrast, such as fill flash, graduated neutral density
filters, blending in post-processing, reflectors or diffusers,
waiting for different lighting, etc.

Bracketing or other exposure techniques will not really help if there
are large areas of the scene that are very bright compared to the
rest of the scene. Either you'll blow highlights or lose significant
detail in the darker parts of the scene.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The photographer needs to pick their battles: choose the best time of day and subject. Upon which bracketing can help you choose a happy medium within that scene. Or to select the version that emphasizes interesting tonality, texture or color in the subject. I find it remarkable how a stop or two either way can invigorate a scene.
--
5D and G7
Happy together.

highliner said:

Great pics!

What settings of contrast, sharpness, saturation did you use for those?

Click to expand...

Contrast and sharpness negative 1 tick; saturation in the middle.

But more important were time of day and environmental factors, coupled with bracketing in some scenes; use of neutral density filter in one scene. Time of day included early morning and late in the day. The city scene was mid morning under an overcast sky.

--
5D and G7
Happy together.

richarddd said:

Bracketing or other exposure techniques will not really help if there
are large areas of the scene that are very bright compared to the
rest of the scene. Either you'll blow highlights or lose significant
detail in the darker parts of the scene.

Click to expand...

Sorry - this is just not true at all. It's perfectly possible to bracket exposures so you get good exposure of both highlight and shadow areas. The bracketed images are then blended together using one of several standard techniques. It's not something you'd do on every single exposure, but it's also not complex or unduly time consuming.

The single exception to the above is where there are lots of tiny specular highlights, or lots of reflections off tiny bits of foliage in bright sun. I polarizing filter will help there.

bill hansen said:

richarddd said:

Bracketing or other exposure techniques will not really help if there
are large areas of the scene that are very bright compared to the
rest of the scene. Either you'll blow highlights or lose significant
detail in the darker parts of the scene.

Click to expand...

Sorry - this is just not true at all. It's perfectly possible to
bracket exposures so you get good exposure of both highlight and
shadow areas. The bracketed images are then blended together using
one of several standard techniques. It's not something you'd do on
every single exposure, but it's also not complex or unduly time
consuming.

Click to expand...

Bracketing won't get you a single capture with proper exposure if the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor. Re-read my post and note that I mention blending in post-processing as an alternative.

richarddd said:

Bracketing won't get you a single capture with proper exposure if the
dynamic range of the scene exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor.

Click to expand...

If I were 50 years younger I might be tempted to write "duhhh" at this point. But I won't do that.

Your post, as it stands, is correct. You did mention bracketing, and I had read that in your post the first time.

I still think, that the way the post is phrased, with "bracketing won't help..." as the lead-in to a second paragraph, will throw people off somewhat. The OP isn't a person with tons of experience with different ways of handling a high-key subject, and I didn't want to take the chance that he(she) would leave the thread with the impression that there was no easy way to avoid clipping highlights or shadows.

Over 'n' out.....

I forgot to add that if a blown highlight is in the image and there's nothing I can do about it, I try to bring down the output in Levels from 255 to about 240 or so - as long as it doesn't make a huge difference in the subjects highlight tone.

At least it's not burning a hole in your retina anymore.

Hi all - thanks for a lot of good answers. Even most of the discussions turned out valuable info.

I'll try to summarize, because I think the topic deserves it.

1) If the scene containes more dynamic range than can be handled by the camera the answer is

-Bracketing and mixing. ( I've no experience with this, but you make it seem less complicated than I originally feared)

-Dial down the contrast a notch. (Will it be possible simply to compensate later without creating new blown highligts in the final product ?)

-Decide what is important in the scene, make sure it is properly exposed (Changing to center weighted evaluative may save some PP) and accept that white is white and be happy you don't have to keep it clean

2) If the scene CAN be handled by the camera it can be done by

-Making sure the scene is properly exposed by tinkering with ev-adjustment and light evaluation method

• Bracketing is a neat way to save time, and I am definitely going to make it default in the custom setting I have stored for my wife to help her "point and shoot"

• Changing contrast will also help, but will create more "flat" pictures (and is less easy accessible than the ev. Incidently I have the "changing evaluation" assigned to my short cut button)

3) when the damage is done ev-compensation can be compensated for in levels using the histogram as a reference. I like this idea as I trust neither my screen nor my judgement when it comes to PP. It is so easy to forget what the scene actually looked like. Setting blown highlights to 240,240,240 sounds sensible too. Contrast adjustments are still subjective. And then there is blending of course..

Thanks again .. and please don't let this stop the discussion. Lots of good ideas have come up, and I'm sure we are not finished.

Ole

....If the areas of blown highlights are large, you can select them (feather the selection about 5-8 pixels) and back off the output levels of only the selected areas.

It goes something like this: (1) before doing Levels on the whole image, make a copy of the layer you're editing (usually by dragging the thumbnail down to the Copy ideogram at the bottom of the Layers palette) (2) select the blown highlight(s). (3) back off the output levels (move the lower right hand slider toward the left) to ~ 240 or so (4) Merge the two layers CTRL-SHIFT-E

Finally, (5) complete your editing.

Bill