Olympus E-20N -- is it over priced?

Thanks for the "orf" info. guys. You're way ahead of me on all this digital was-was. I guess it's time to get into computers, software, etc. etc. Maybe I'll just keep my Pentax 6x7 outfit after all. I always did kinda like working in the dark without "noise" for some strange reason.

Cheers,KH--KH

David M. said:

Yes, the D60 and D100 are at the 2,000$ price point. WITHOUT a
lens!!! I don't understand why noone wants to take this into
account!!

Click to expand...

I understand about the lens. I still maintain that its price point is getting squeezed and that its price will drop in the near future because of it.

I willing to spend about $1400 to $1500 on the E-20 camera. And I will spend more on accessories; flash; lens; media, etc.

I am waiting until first week of April to buy these.

I definitely will not go for these cheap Webtailers. I got to find a deal from a respectable retailer such as B&H, J&R, or others like it.

Lets see what happens.

MDutra

ps. I appreciate all you guys help on the subject. Thanks!

A E Hansen said:

MDutra said:

I have spent the past two days researching which 5MP digital camera
to buy. After analyzing all pros & cons, also considering all
features I am looking for; I came to a decision, I want the Olympus
E-20N. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it is I think
it is over priced.

The contenders were:
Olympus E-20N
Sony DSC-F707
Nikon Coolpix 5000
Minolta DiMAGE 7

No need to say that they all have their pros & cons, but the
competitors prices are on the US$1,000 range. So, I find had to
judge if the features of the Olympus E-20 I want are worth an extra
US$900.

Any body can comment on that?

--
Mauro Dutra

Click to expand...

--
-- A E Hansen

Click to expand...

--Mauro Dutra

Yeah, instead of noise you got grain!!!

Your Pentax medium format is awesome. But I don't miss darkrooms. I'll take digital any day over chemicals. I'm also spoiled by the instant gratification, and endless possibilities with digital manipulation.

It's not much of a learning curve to understand the basics. Get a copy of Photoshop, a good book, and some time to spend on the computer with it. You'll be enthralled and fascinated as much as anyone, and will soon be producing awesome images. Don't be intimidated by the terminology hoopla. Your background in conventional photography already gives you a great leg up.
Good luck!
D.

KH said:

Thanks for the "orf" info. guys. You're way ahead of me on all this
digital was-was. I guess it's time to get into computers, software,
etc. etc. Maybe I'll just keep my Pentax 6x7 outfit after all. I
always did kinda like working in the dark without "noise" for some
strange reason.

Cheers,KH
--
KH

Click to expand...

A deal? What constitutes a deal? Buying from one of the New York scam artists? Gray market? Refurb?

The cheapest I've seen the E20 go for through a RESPECTED dealer is around 1,700$. The cheapest I've seen the E10 go for through the same is approximately 1,200$. I find it funny that noone who is posting this "deal" stuff and accusing people of "not trying hard enough" to get a lower price are also not letting on as to whom they might go through to obtain the cam for these supposed prices.
Please dont start mentioning Broadway photo or other such nonsense.

The glass on the Exx probably accounts for half of the MSRP. It's an awesome lens, and to find a comparable lens for the D30/60 you'll be paying in the neighborhood of a grand.

Let's get real. I understand the Canon is a better enowed camera, but it seems some on here are intent on making it seem like God's gift which it's not even at it's lower price point.

A E Hansen said:

MDutra said:

I have spent the past two days researching which 5MP digital camera
to buy. After analyzing all pros & cons, also considering all
features I am looking for; I came to a decision, I want the Olympus
E-20N. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it is I think
it is over priced.

The contenders were:
Olympus E-20N
Sony DSC-F707
Nikon Coolpix 5000
Minolta DiMAGE 7

No need to say that they all have their pros & cons, but the
competitors prices are on the US$1,000 range. So, I find had to
judge if the features of the Olympus E-20 I want are worth an extra
US$900.

Any body can comment on that?

--
Mauro Dutra

Click to expand...

--
-- A E Hansen

Click to expand...

Point well taken Micheal, and I can't help but agree.
Ty,
D.

Michael Long said:

Michael Long said:

Yes, the D60 and D100 are at the 2,000$ price point. WITHOUT a
lens!!! I don't understand why noone wants to take this into
account!!

Click to expand...

I understand about the lens. I still maintain that its price point
is getting squeezed and that its price will drop in the near future
because of it.

Click to expand...

David M. said:

I find it funny that noone who is
posting this "deal" stuff and accusing people of "not trying hard
enough" to get a lower price are also not letting on as to whom
they might go through to obtain the cam for these supposed prices.
Please dont start mentioning Broadway photo or other such nonsense.

Click to expand...

Okay, I will tell you where I got mine. (Disclaimer: I can only tell you of my experience with the following company. Others may have had good or bad experiences with this company. I can only tell my story and I make no claims about the company as a whole.)

I bought mine at http://www.ibuydigital.com in late January. I cannot remember off hand exactly what I paid, I think it was US $1549, Currently it lists on their site for US $1,579.

The camera I received was new, and had a US warranty. (Non-grey market.) It has worked just fine since I got it.

Two things of note:

1. I did have to call my credit card company and verify the purchase before they would approve the sale. I asked the credit card rep if this had something to do with the company I was ordering from, and she replied that it was just a random spot-check.

2. I ordered online. Two hours later I was called by a company rep who tried to get me to buy servela add-ons. He was rather insistant that I needed to buy a new circular polarizer. Tried to tell me that a 62mm polarizer that works with an E-10 would not work with an E-20 because of the higher resolution. (It makes me laugh every time I think about that.) Anyway, I simply said no to any add-ons, and that was that.

While I would not call this an extremely honest company, I did get my camera a promised. Just don't order any of the overpriced accessories. That is how they are making their money.---- A E Hansen

twede said:

Andrew Grant said:

So buu a $1500 D30 and a $300 lens and you will still have a much
better camera than the E-20 with out spending much more money.

Click to expand...

Heheheh. Not likely. The D30 image quality when using cheap glass
doesn't quite work as well as the e20. Noise reduction works to
smooth the e20 image, but you can't get resolution detail outa the
d30 that wasn't there already.

Click to expand...

Some Canon lens prices for you. All these lenses are very sharp, sharper I am sure, than the E lens.

50/1.8 - $90
50/1.4 - $340
28/2.8 - $200
70-200/4 L - $650

Slightly less sharp, but still decent zooms can be bought for around $300.

BTW Noise reduction will remove image detail from the E-20 and the level of noise in E-20 images makes sharpening them difficult. I seriously considered the E-10 before buying the D30 because the E-10 was too noisy to be useful for me.

One final thought, many E-10/20 owners have sold thier gear and switched to the D30. They wouldn't being soing this unless they though the D30 was a better camera.

Andrew Grant said:

Some Canon lens prices for you. All these lenses are very sharp,
sharper I am sure, than the E lens.

Click to expand...

Yes, they are about as sharp or sharper. But to get the same range, you have to spend $1200, as you show, plus interchanging them and dusting off the CCD...

Andrew Grant27981 said:

50/1.8 - $90
50/1.4 - $340
28/2.8 - $200
70-200/4 L - $650

Click to expand...

Andrew Grant27981 said:

Slightly less sharp, but still decent zooms can be bought for
around $300.

Click to expand...

I tested the 24-85, 28-105, 28-135 on a D30. These zooms are nowhere near as sharp as the Exx lens. That was my problem...

Andrew Grant27981 said:

BTW Noise reduction will remove image detail from the E-20 and the
level of noise in E-20 images makes sharpening them difficult.

Click to expand...

Yes, my study showed exactly that--the trade off with NR is some detail lost. But since it is a 5MP versus the 3MP d30, the trade for the same d30 smoothness still left me more detail on the 5mp NR image than you get after moderate, targetted USM on the lower noise d30 3mp image. Sorry, but it was shown in my own test shots, in phil's dpreview comparison shots and in printouts of all of these, time and time again. I wished the d30 would have been sufficient, believe me. It has somethings the Exx doesn't--slightly better focus, narrow DOF for portrait, legendary canon flash system...

I'm saying this after having thought long and hard about buying a d30 last january. I needed something for the next year or two--a short term buy--but couldn't justify the extra cost of the d30 plus low-end lens when clearly the e20 was giving me better image quality after some NR. Yes, if you have the bucks to invest in loads of L's and primes, the d30 is a smarter, long-term move. But the E20 was far less than the d30 body alone. Thus, I am still ahead since I have money left over and time to relax with a decent camera while I save for even better things a year or so from now.

BTW, the D60 looks very tempting. Had I known it would come in at $2000, I might have waited another two or three months and just done that. (Well, I could probably sell the e20 and get back nearly the same price--$1350).--Photos, tips and tests at: http://www.geocities.com/glowluzid

MDutra said:

I willing to spend about $1400 to $1500 on the E-20 camera. And I
will spend more on accessories; flash; lens; media, etc.

Click to expand...

Find the best price on the Web for an E20N (not grey or P), from any dealer--even bad ones. Price match that at officemax.com. They get it from the local store/distribution point and get it to you overnight, with the cost of shipping equal to overnight shipping at the place matched. If you pay with AMEX, you can then price match on grey even lower, get $250 back from that. That will put you easily in the $1400 or lower range.--Photos, tips and tests at: http://www.geocities.com/glowluzid

"Some Canon lens prices for you. All these lenses are very sharp, sharper I am sure, than the E lens."> > >

Surely you can't be serious. Either that or you don't have a clue. You are comparing apples to oranges here. As Twede already specified, those lenses you list don't have NEAR the range of the Exx, so in order to obtain that range you'll have to buy SEVERAL of them, in which case it still brings you up around the 1,000$ range, as well as merely going for a comparable lens that is as fast.
Nice try though.

50/1.8 - $90
50/1.4 - $340
28/2.8 - $200
70-200/4 L - $650

Andrew Grant said:

twede said:

Andrew Grant said:

So buu a $1500 D30 and a $300 lens and you will still have a much
better camera than the E-20 with out spending much more money.

Click to expand...

Heheheh. Not likely. The D30 image quality when using cheap glass
doesn't quite work as well as the e20. Noise reduction works to
smooth the e20 image, but you can't get resolution detail outa the
d30 that wasn't there already.

Click to expand...

Some Canon lens prices for you. All these lenses are very sharp,
sharper I am sure, than the E lens.

50/1.8 - $90
50/1.4 - $340
28/2.8 - $200
70-200/4 L - $650

Slightly less sharp, but still decent zooms can be bought for
around $300.

BTW Noise reduction will remove image detail from the E-20 and the
level of noise in E-20 images makes sharpening them difficult. I
seriously considered the E-10 before buying the D30 because the
E-10 was too noisy to be useful for me.

One final thought, many E-10/20 owners have sold thier gear and
switched to the D30. They wouldn't being soing this unless they
though the D30 was a better camera.

Click to expand...

MDutra said:

I willing to spend about $1400 to $1500 on the E-20 camera. And I
will spend more on accessories; flash; lens; media, etc.

I am waiting until first week of April to buy these.

I definitely will not go for these cheap Webtailers. I got to find
a deal from a respectable retailer such as B&H, J&R, or others like
it.

Lets see what happens.

MDutra

ps. I appreciate all you guys help on the subject. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Sounds like you've made your decision...If I might recomend when doing your pricing..you might want to check out...

http://www.midwestphoto.com/

You can call and ask for Stu I first dealt with them about 2 yrs ago and have kept my business there since..For me it's only an hour away though..
But I highly recomend them..

Paul
DXP

Are you claiming the E20 lens is comparable to a $1000 Canon lens?

David M. said:

Moot point on the D60.
If you don't already have a good lens for it then plan on adding
another grand to that total, bringing the realistic price of a D60
up to around 3,000$.
That's more than a grand more than an E20, and more than likely
with a slower lens as well.
The price comparisons between the D60 and Oly Exx's are getting
silly. Noone seems to take into account the glass.
D.

Click to expand...

Andrew Grant said:

So buu a $1500 D30 and a $300 lens and you will still have a much
better camera than the E-20 with out spending much more money. Any
Nikon or Canon lenses you do buy can be sold on Ebay for close to
the prurchase price.

Click to expand...

I do not believe there is a Nikkor or Canon lens for $300.00 that can touch the E-10/20 lens. A grand? Sure...but that is the point already made by a previous poster.

I'm getting 11x14 prints off my E-10 that compare very closly to custom enlargements made off Provia F 35mm slides, processed on the same paper, machine, lab. I upload the files and pay $5.00 for prints. Margin is great and customers love them. For me, a long time Olympus OM user who does not have Canon or Nikkor glass to slap on a $2-6k digital body, the E-10 made perfect sense as a bridge digital camera while I wait a little longer for things to settle down (and keep shooting lots of film).

My point is, a $2000.00 lens on a $300.00 body will always get better images than vice versa. Pay for the glass first is the rule in film photography, and just because digital bodies may cost a fortune compared to film, the rule remains the same--just the budget is higher.--Mike Veglia http://www.motorsportvisions.com

This is a tough question!!!

If the E20n had a larger buffer, and less noise, it would be worth $3000 to me!

You might ask WHY? When i can get a D60 for $2000 or a D30 for $1200.

Ease of operation. I like the concept of a non-interchangable DSLR with pro built and features, but still smaller and lighter then my D1X. I don't always want carry my D1X, or D100, D60, D30 and extra lenses. Sometimes I just like to grab one camera, carry light, and be ready to shoot. The E20N comes close to that for me but falls short because of the buffer and noise. Yet for many others the buffer and noise is not a problem!

I also have the F707 and really like it. It too almost fits that bill for me, except it lacks a few controls. Still it has less noise, and it seems to buffer faster. Close, but still no cigar.

I think the CP5000 and Dimage 7 is just plain junk, and I'm being kind.

So what makes a camera "worth it"? It's different reasons for different people. I think the E20 and the F707 are more "worth it", then the CP5000 or D7.

Don't be affraid to spend more money on a camera that fits your needs better! Going for a "better buy" instead of your needs would be a mistake.
None of my compliants about the e20 or f707 has anything to do with price.

Good Luck!
Jim K

MDutra said:

I have spent the past two days researching which 5MP digital camera
to buy. After analyzing all pros & cons, also considering all
features I am looking for; I came to a decision, I want the Olympus
E-20N. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it is I think
it is over priced.

The contenders were:
Olympus E-20N
Sony DSC-F707
Nikon Coolpix 5000
Minolta DiMAGE 7

No need to say that they all have their pros & cons, but the
competitors prices are on the US$1,000 range. So, I find had to
judge if the features of the Olympus E-20 I want are worth an extra
US$900.

Any body can comment on that?

--
Mauro Dutra

Click to expand...

MDutra said:

After analyzing all pros & cons, also considering all
features I am looking for; I came to a decision, I want the Olympus
E-20N. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it is I think
it is over priced.

Click to expand...

First off, there are reputable places selling it for under $1600.

Second, it has a lot of "pro" features that the others you mention do not: TTL optical viewfinder, progressive scan mode, dual memory cards, PC socket for studio lighting, superb matched lens attachments available, manual exposures out to eight minutes, ability to use standard AA batteries, and probably a few others.

Many folks will compare it to the new breed of SLRs. I think this is something to seriously consider if you already have a stable of Nikon or Canon glass, but consider they aren't even available yet, and people are quoting the "rumored" street prices for them WITHOUT lenses! Also consider that 35mm lenses that resolve only 100 lines per mm aren't really up to the task of the tiny digital sensor, then consider that those expensive, super-wide angle lenses turn into mediocre normal lenses!

Don't pay attention to the Nikon/Canon SLR folks unless you already have a considerable investment in N/C glass!

I got an E-20N for under $1300, but it was an exceptional buy via an Office Max price match. I think they're wise to it now! But there are "legit" street prices under $1600.

--Jan Steinman -- [email protected] -- http://www.bytesmiths.com

What noise reduction is used for the D30/E20 test shots? If it's dark frame subtraction that would seem to limit is usefulness for general shooting. Also,

the larger # of unique colors is most likely due to the presence of random color noise. The much larger sensors on the D30 enable better dynamic range.

twede said:

Andrew Grant said:

So buu a $1500 D30 and a $300 lens and you will still have a much
better camera than the E-20 with out spending much more money.

Click to expand...

Heheheh. Not likely. The D30 image quality when using cheap glass
doesn't quite work as well as the e20. Noise reduction works to
smooth the e20 image, but you can't get resolution detail outa the
d30 that wasn't there already. See the comparison linked at the
site below. Also, if you're paying more than $1450 for the e20,
you're not trying hard enough...
--
Photos, tips and tests at:
http://www.geocities.com/glowluzid

Click to expand...

This is great information. I will surely try it! Thanks.

MDutra

twede said:

MDutra said:

I willing to spend about $1400 to $1500 on the E-20 camera. And I
will spend more on accessories; flash; lens; media, etc.

Click to expand...

Find the best price on the Web for an E20N (not grey or P), from
any dealer--even bad ones. Price match that at officemax.com.
They get it from the local store/distribution point and get it to
you overnight, with the cost of shipping equal to overnight
shipping at the place matched. If you pay with AMEX, you can then
price match on grey even lower, get $250 back from that. That will
put you easily in the $1400 or lower range.
--
Photos, tips and tests at:
http://www.geocities.com/glowluzid

Click to expand...

--Mauro Dutra

Thanks for your insight and the info on Office Max price match. It is my next shopping stop.

MDutra

Jan Steinman said:

MDutra said:

After analyzing all pros & cons, also considering all
features I am looking for; I came to a decision, I want the Olympus
E-20N. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it is I think
it is over priced.

Click to expand...

First off, there are reputable places selling it for under $1600.

Second, it has a lot of "pro" features that the others you mention
do not: TTL optical viewfinder, progressive scan mode, dual memory
cards, PC socket for studio lighting, superb matched lens
attachments available, manual exposures out to eight minutes,
ability to use standard AA batteries, and probably a few others.

Many folks will compare it to the new breed of SLRs. I think this
is something to seriously consider if you already have a stable of
Nikon or Canon glass, but consider they aren't even available yet,
and people are quoting the "rumored" street prices for them WITHOUT
lenses! Also consider that 35mm lenses that resolve only 100 lines
per mm aren't really up to the task of the tiny digital sensor,
then consider that those expensive, super-wide angle lenses turn
into mediocre normal lenses!

Don't pay attention to the Nikon/Canon SLR folks unless you already
have a considerable investment in N/C glass!

I got an E-20N for under $1300, but it was an exceptional buy via
an Office Max price match. I think they're wise to it now! But
there are "legit" street prices under $1600.

--
Jan Steinman -- [email protected]
Bytesmiths -- http://www.bytesmiths.com

Click to expand...

--Mauro Dutra

well...

what would it cost to buy a Canon zoom with coverage to 35mm at f2.0 ?

Inquiring minds...

Regards,

Glenn Whitten

Paul Callahan said:

Are you claiming the E20 lens is comparable to a $1000 Canon lens?

Click to expand...