Why have you choosen E-410 over E-510?

igelfeld · Jul 11, 2007

BirdEye said:
I'm really agonizing over which one to get. I'll be headed to the
Himalayas for a few months where I'll be backpacking, and weight and
size are absolutely crucial. I've looked at the e-410, and I'm going
to take a look at the e-510 today. A main consideration is that I
won't be able to recharge batteries for weeks at a time, so I'll have
to carry extra batteries. The e-510 battery is larger, but it also
takes more exposures compared to the e-410 battery. I'm wondering if
anyone has calculated the number of exposures compared to the total
weight of the battery and/or system. What I'm thinking is that
although the e-510 is a few ounces heavier, it will also take more
exposures on each battery. And that is how I will justify going with
it. One of the main advantages pertains to both cameras - the new kit
lenses are very light and small. But, I still haven't decided which
camera. When you've done much backpacking, it just goes against the
grain not to get the very lightest camera...

Given your circumstances, you should consider getting a camera that takes off-the-shelf batteries which is - shame to all manufacturers - only Pentax K100. It takes either AAs or CR-V3. You should be able to easily buy lithium AAs or CR-V3 anywhere in the world which would give your well over a 1000 of exposures with this camera. I travel a lot and I've been in enough situations where I could not recharge the batteries. But I always was able to buy lithium AAs or CR-V3 (my other P&S travel camera is SP-350 which also takes these two types of batteries). This is one of the most critical requirements for the camera that I bring along for a trip. K100 will give you IS, superb high ISO performance and is similar to E-510 in size.

Think very hard about how your camera will be powered before going on a trip like this.

--
Cheers,

Igelfeld

DG13 · Jul 12, 2007

I don't like large heavy cameras much. I went to the Pentax *ist DS from a Canon 10D, and that was an improvement, but then I got a Pentax MZ-S film SLR, and it was difficult to enjoy the DS.. so I ended up selling all my SLR equipment, including the MZ-S (because I couldn't hang with the film workflow for long).

I'm making a longer story than necessary, but anyway as a long time fan of range finder cameras I was attracted to the Canon G7 design for a compact digital, but there was just something lacking for me in the IQ, as good as it is, and it is good.

I decided to give up on small sensor digicams instead of trying either the Ricoh GR-D or GX100, and I was able to trade to the Olympus 410 at the shop where I got my G7, for full purchase price of the G7 against a e410 2 lens kit.

I tried the e-510 and it reminded me too much of my former dslr's despite being smaller, whereas the E-410 is about the design,size and weight of the Pentax MZ-S that I always felt was perfect for me. While not as compact as something like a G7 the 410 is small enough, and more importantly light enough to keep with me most of the time.

I like IS, but I don't need it. The E410 has a very smooth shutter and light shutter button, and the other differences to the E-510 are not significant to me.

BirdEye · Jul 12, 2007

igelfeld said:
Given your circumstances, you should consider getting a camera that
takes off-the-shelf batteries which is - shame to all manufacturers -
only Pentax K100. It takes either AAs or CR-V3. You should be able to
easily buy lithium AAs or CR-V3 anywhere in the world which would
give your well over a 1000 of exposures with this camera.

Thanks Igelfeld. I followed your advice and looked at the K100. Its downside is that the camera is a half pound heavier. The Pentax lens is heavier, as well, I think. But it is worth considering. Also, lithium batteries are not available on the trails in the Himalayas. I've seen a few cheap alkaline ones there, but not anything that would be suitable for a dslr. I've thought of using a solar charger and double-AAs, even possibly with a point-and-shoot camera. But I'm still leaning towards the e-410. That system with lens is so light, I can carry 4 or 5 extra batteries. And of course, the photo quality and camera flexibility of a dslr is greater than a point-and-shoot.

osloray · Jul 12, 2007

I haven't
--
Raymond
http://www.bildebank.com

Raist3d · Jul 12, 2007

Pavel Kudrys said:
Below are the features missing in E410 menu (apart the IS). "P
number" references appropriated E510 PDF manual page.
***************************
Underwater Wide and Macro shooting modes - p. 30

Interestingly enough, there's no underwater case for the e-510 yet.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Flash intensity and Exposure compensation can be set at once - at
bottom of p. 42.

You can do this from the LCD menu.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Flash Bracketing - p. 43
Shutter release priority - p. 51
Compression rate of [HQ] - p. 58

The e-410 does have this.

Pavel Kudrys said:
WB bracketing - p. 60
Shading compensation - p. 62
Light box display - p. 65
Up to 4 AEL/AFL modes (E400/410 max. 2 modes) - p. 77
The EV step interval can be selected from 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 1 EV. -
EV step (P. 78)
ISO limit (P. 78)
Flash Speed synchronization settings - p. 78

The e-410 also has this, unless I am not reading that right.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Customizing the control dial’s function - P. 79
My Mode setting - p. 80

If this means setting the entire camera to a state, saving those states and resetting the camera immediately back to them from changes, the e-410 also has this.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Reset lens - p. 80
Focus ring - p. 80
Priority setting - p. 80
QUICK ERASE - p. 81

I think, not 100% sure, the e-410 has this.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Erasing RAW and JPEG files - p. 81

You can erase both on the e-410 also, but you can't change when/where. If you select the photos, and then hit the trashcan button, it will warn you it will delete both (not sure if you are referring to this capability or the preference of doing this or not as a setting).

Pavel Kudrys said:
EDIT FILENAME - p. 82

If you mean setting how the format of the file name is written, the e-410 has this.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Button timer - p. 84
Auto power off - p. 85

The e-410 has this.

Pavel Kudrys said:
arrow pad lock - p. 85

Not really needed since there's no instant menu access with the arrow buttons, so it doesn't apply.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Switch the functions of the AEL/AFL button and the FN button - p. 85
--

Most of the "missing" features are just productivity and ergonomic
enhancements, that were "sacrificed" to make the E410 menu "simpler"
and more "entry level". Silly marketing move, because I would gladly
pay the the E510 for E410 with all these missing options. And no, I
will never buy E510, because it's bigger. I bought E400 almost
immediately when it appeared here in my country and I would buy it
again, because it's just great little camera. But all these
disabled/not allowed features drives me mad.

I think Olympus should have put an "expert mode" and have the expert mode never work when the camera is set to a shooting mode or "auto" modes....

I agree they crippled the e-410 on purpose. I find still silly they push this as an entry level DSLR when it's compelling for size reasons to pro photographers also.

--
Raist3d
Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Vid Games Programmer

Quozl · Jul 13, 2007

e410 was simply the best choice for the over budget decision. Point and shoots was the original budget set by my company and I pushed it to get this one. e510 was not out yet but added just that bit too much for approval (would have had to go for the canon 400 or nikon DX40 instead).

Looking at the list posted I can say:

Member said:
Compression rate of [HQ] - p. 58

THIS CAN BE SET ON E410

Member said:
The EV step interval can be selected from 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 1 EV. - EV step (P. 78)

THIS I STHE SAME ON E410

WHY ALL CAMERAS DONT LET YOU SET THE STEP RANGE TO ANYTHING YOU WANT (I.E. 1/3 TO 3) IS BEYOND ME. IS IT THAT HARD TO INCLUDE?

Member said:
Erasing RAW and JPEG files - p. 81

CAN BE DONE (I PRETTY SURE)

Member said:
Auto power off - p. 85

WELL IT DOES

Member said:
Switch the functions of the AEL/AFL button and the FN button - p. 85

YES CAN DO

Pavel Kudrys · Jul 13, 2007

Quozl said:
Looking at the list posted I can say:

Quozl said:

Compression rate of [HQ] - p. 58 (correction, it should by p. 53)

Click to expand...

THIS CAN BE SET ON E410

Are you sure of that? I mean, yes, you can set the compression rate for [SQ] mode in E410 menu. But I think you can't do the same for HQ mode, which is by default set to 1/8 compression! While in E510 you can select 1/4, 1/8, 1/12 for HQ mode (lower rate = less compression artifacts).

Quozl said:
Quozl said:

The EV step interval can be selected from 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 1 EV. - EV step (P. 78)

Click to expand...

THIS I STHE SAME ON E410
WHY ALL CAMERAS DONT LET YOU SET THE STEP RANGE TO ANYTHING YOU WANT
(I.E. 1/3 TO 3) IS BEYOND ME. IS IT THAT HARD TO INCLUDE?

If it's really there, then I'm sorry for my mistake! It's not mentioned in E410 Help.

Quozl said:
Quozl said:

Erasing RAW and JPEG files - p. 81

Click to expand...

CAN BE DONE (I PRETTY SURE)

Sure, you can delete JPEG + RAW at once, but can you specify if you wish to delete only JPEG files, or only RAW files or both? I don't think so

Quozl said:
Quozl said:

Auto power off - p. 85

Click to expand...

WELL IT DOES

Yes, but can you specify the timer and mainly, disable the "Auto Power Off" completely?

Quozl said:
Quozl said:

Switch the functions of the AEL/AFL button and the FN button - p. 85

Click to expand...

YES CAN DO

Well, the truth is that E410 doesn't have the FN button, so there is nothing to switch..sorry, my mistake

Imboden · Jul 13, 2007

Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:

Isn't most of the size difference in the grip?

Click to expand...

....
You have to draw the line somewhere and Brian Drew it at E4xx size
and I have to agree, BTW the 400 is overall smaller than the 510 bar
height I think

The 410 (I think that's the camera you mean) has slightly less width, but the extra depth of the grip shouldn't be much of an issue since the lens contributes far more to the overall depth than the grip does. There is some difference in weight, of course, and a 410 with the kit lens is undeniably a great package for people who prefer a Mini to a Golf.

Imboden · Jul 13, 2007

Addendum: I'm a travel writer and editor, so bulk and weight are important issues for me. At first glance, the E-410 sounds like the better option. However, the E-510's IS allows more reliable shooting with the kit lenses on gloomy days or indoors, and the E-410/510 kit lenses are smaller and much lighter than the larger-aperture, higher-grade Olympus lenses that I might need to take the same shots with the E-410. So--for MY intended application--the E-510 body/lens package is likely to be the smaller, lighter choice.

erichK · Jul 13, 2007

Raist3d said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Below are the features missing in E410 menu (apart the IS). "P
number" references appropriated E510 PDF manual page.
***************************
Underwater Wide and Macro shooting modes - p. 30

Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, there's no underwater case for the e-510 yet.

And also,the E410 was touted as an underwater camera--even a compact "one hand operation" (a fantastic plus,as any diver can tell you!) camera in a PMA interview that is available online. Olympus even announced the UW case for it at the same time as the camera!

For Underwater photography, the dilemma for me is whether to pick up one of the E330's that are being sold off cheap, and that have gained praise as excellent UW cameras, or to sacrifice Live Mode A and the tilting LCD (which is actually exploited in the best E330 housings) in favour of a handier and more compact housing/camera Olympus outfit.

For general photgraphy, I'm undecided between the 410 and the 510. As I've detailed elsewhere, I just loved being able to take my OM2 and 24, 35, and 85 f2 in a rigid case on a cycle camping trip around Britain in 1979, and I'd love to be able to take the E410 and lenses with me cycling and walking (though a compact UW would be nice: the wonderful 11-22 would be a bit bullky!)

BirdEye · Jul 13, 2007

I have to admit that the aesthetic appeal of the e-410 is powerful for me. In handling it, it is like the old om-1 cameras that I used for years. So small. And also much lighter than the om-1s. It's just a lighter and more free feel than the e-510. I know it doesn't make sense on paper, because on paper the e-510 has it beat for only a few ounces of extra weight. But for anyone who used the om-1s years ago in film days, you definitely get that type of feeling with the e-410.

Xargo · Jul 13, 2007

Quozl said:
Quozl said:

The EV step interval can be selected from 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 1 EV. - EV step (P. 78)

Click to expand...

THIS I STHE SAME ON E410
WHY ALL CAMERAS DONT LET YOU SET THE STEP RANGE TO ANYTHING YOU WANT
(I.E. 1/3 TO 3) IS BEYOND ME. IS IT THAT HARD TO INCLUDE?

Could you please tell me where to find this setting? I have this feature in E-330 but can't find it on E-410.

--

E-410, E-330, 11-22mm, 180mm F3.4 Apo-Telyt-R, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro, FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

Xargo · Jul 13, 2007

Raist3d said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Reset lens - p. 80

Click to expand...

I think, not 100% sure, the e-410 has this.

I haven't found the "Reset lens" function. It's quite important for me as I need to be able to set precise focusing distance for accurate photogrammetric measurements though I usually work with legacy glass so it's not a big problem.

Member said:
I agree they crippled the e-410 on purpose. I find still silly they
push this as an entry level DSLR when it's compelling for size
reasons to pro photographers also.

How true. It would be nice if Oly offered all the missing features + the focus confirmation led function discussed in another thread for like $10 firmware upgrade. It could be called "pro function pack" or something. I would buy it instantly.

--

E-410, E-330, 11-22mm, 180mm F3.4 Apo-Telyt-R, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro, FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

Big Ga · Jul 13, 2007

erichK said:
For Underwater photography, the dilemma for me is whether to pick up
one of the E330's that are being sold off cheap, and that have gained
praise as excellent UW cameras, or to sacrifice Live Mode A and the
tilting LCD (which is actually exploited in the best E330 housings)
in favour of a handier and more compact housing/camera Olympus outfit.

I've not yet done underwater photography with a DSLR, however my above water experiences with the 330 and 510 would make me believe that unless you are in MF mode or do not focus very often underwater, modeA of the 330 would be the killer feature as the mirror flip of the 410/510 would be a major irritant if you had to use it all the time.

G.

Pavel Kudrys · Jul 13, 2007

Xargo said:
Xargo said:

I agree they crippled the e-410 on purpose. I find still silly they
push this as an entry level DSLR when it's compelling for size
reasons to pro photographers also.

Click to expand...

How true. It would be nice if Oly offered all the missing features +
the focus confirmation led function discussed in another thread for
like $10 firmware upgrade. It could be called "pro function pack" or
something. I would buy it instantly.

$10? I'm ready to pay the E410/E510 price difference (which is about $100) for such firmware update! But I'm afraid, we are all too short for silly marketing decisions...

Quozl · Jul 13, 2007

Pavel Kudrys said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Could you please tell me where to find this setting?
I have this feature in E-330 but can't find it on E-410.

Click to expand...

Shooting from the hip memory when I wrote so after physically checking again I must clarify:

In Auto Braketing mode from menu settings the possible steps selectable are 0.3 or 0.7 or 1.0 for the 3 frames.

The stepping range using the dial is also the same so there is no 0.5 step (0.3 - 0.7 - 1.0 - 1.3 - 1.7 - 2.0 etc)

Heres a tip though I found however useful it may or may not be. The maximum exposure compensation by dial mode is -5 to +5. If you auto braket 3 frames set at 1ev steps and set the dial to -5 or +5 you will actually get one frame also at -6 or +6

Quozl · Jul 13, 2007

HQ - You are right again no customisation for compression only for SQ. I know i saw this somewhere and now I think it was is in studio 2 that setting option came up but did not try to change it so perhaps it is still locked out for e410... would have to test.

RAW+JPG - If you shoot in this mode then in review mode it shows one thumbnail represeting both the JPG+RAW shot. If you press delete it first deletes the JPG file and leaves the RAW file. Another delete is required to remove the RAW.

Raist3d · Jul 13, 2007

Pavel Kudrys said:
Quozl said:

Looking at the list posted I can say:

Pavel Kudrys said:

Compression rate of [HQ] - p. 58 (correction, it should by p. 53)

Click to expand...

THIS CAN BE SET ON E410

Click to expand...

Are you sure of that? I mean, yes, you can set the compression rate
for [SQ] mode in E410 menu. But I think you can't do the same for HQ
mode, which is by default set to 1/8 compression! While in E510 you
can select 1/4, 1/8, 1/12 for HQ mode (lower rate = less compression
artifacts).

Specifically about setting one and not the other you may be right then.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Pavel Kudrys said:

The EV step interval can be selected from 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV or 1 EV. - EV step (P. 78)

Click to expand...

THIS I STHE SAME ON E410
WHY ALL CAMERAS DONT LET YOU SET THE STEP RANGE TO ANYTHING YOU WANT
(I.E. 1/3 TO 3) IS BEYOND ME. IS IT THAT HARD TO INCLUDE?

Click to expand...

If it's really there, then I'm sorry for my mistake! It's not
mentioned in E410 Help.

Pavel Kudrys said:

Pavel Kudrys said:

Erasing RAW and JPEG files - p. 81

Click to expand...

CAN BE DONE (I PRETTY SURE)

Click to expand...

Sure, you can delete JPEG + RAW at once, but can you specify if you
wish to delete only JPEG files, or only RAW files or both? I don't
think so

You can delete one or the other of both. What is not an option is how you get to do it. If you do the pictures selections it's both. IF you are doing one by one you can delete whichever you want.

Pavel Kudrys said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Pavel Kudrys said:

Auto power off - p. 85

Click to expand...

WELL IT DOES

Click to expand...

Yes, but can you specify the timer and mainly, disable the "Auto
Power Off" completely?

I believe you can, but not 100% sure (about disabling completely)

Pavel Kudrys said:
Pavel Kudrys said:

Pavel Kudrys said:

Switch the functions of the AEL/AFL button and the FN button - p. 85

Click to expand...

YES CAN DO

Click to expand...

Well, the truth is that E410 doesn't have the FN button, so there is
nothing to switch..sorry, my mistake

Well the e-410 does have one FN button- it's the left arrow on the arrow menu. You can use it to set one button live dof preview, manual white balance and 2-3 more things in between.

--
Raist3d
Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Vid Games Programmer

Raist3d · Jul 13, 2007

Xargo said:
Raist3d said:

Pavel Kudrys said:

Reset lens - p. 80

Click to expand...

I think, not 100% sure, the e-410 has this.

Click to expand...

I haven't found the "Reset lens" function. It's quite important for
me as I need to be able to set precise focusing distance for accurate
photogrammetric measurements though I usually work with legacy glass
so it's not a big problem.

I wasn't talking about the reset lens option, but the quick erase:

--- Original text:

Xargo said:
Reset lens - p. 80
Focus ring - p. 80
Priority setting - p. 80
QUICK ERASE - p. 81

I think, not 100% sure, the e-410 has this.

--- I am referring to the last line, not the 4 lines.

Xargo said:
Xargo said:

I agree they crippled the e-410 on purpose. I find still silly they
push this as an entry level DSLR when it's compelling for size
reasons to pro photographers also.

Click to expand...

How true. It would be nice if Oly offered all the missing features +
the focus confirmation led function discussed in another thread for
like $10 firmware upgrade. It could be called "pro function pack" or
something. I would buy it instantly.

Same.

Xargo said:
--
E-410, E-330, 11-22mm, 180mm F3.4 Apo-Telyt-R, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm
F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm
F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro,
FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

--
Raist3d
Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Vid Games Programmer

Raist3d · Jul 13, 2007

Quozl said:
HQ - You are right again no customisation for compression only for
SQ. I know i saw this somewhere and now I think it was is in studio 2
that setting option came up but did not try to change it so perhaps
it is still locked out for e410... would have to test.

RAW+JPG - If you shoot in this mode then in review mode it shows one
thumbnail represeting both the JPG+RAW shot. If you press delete it
first deletes the JPG file and leaves the RAW file. Another delete is
required to remove the RAW.

But if you select the picture first, to do a "mass -select" delete then the camera warns you, you will delete both the jpeg and the raw at once. This works even if you only selected one picture, so effectively you can delete raw+ jpeg shots if you want on the e-410.

--
Raist3d
Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Vid Games Programmer

Why have you choosen E-410 over E-510?

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