Film is coming back...

He has more and more customers who lose all their pictures due to
hard disk and computer failures because "average Joe" do not make CD
nor copy of any sort,
That's non-sense. Hard drive failures are actually pretty rare.
Wrong- Every single hard drive ever made WILL EVENTUALLY FAIL. Many are discarded before that point, but it would still be true if kept in service. Hard drives are actaully rated to hours of use before failure. Go home and back up your hard drive today.
And
recovery of failed hard drives is pretty successful when it does
happen.
And very expensive. I repeat. Back up your images. You can now buy Terabite MyBook drives for less than $400.
they may do it once
or twice but quit very fast.
Yeah, and these lazy people aren't going to take any better care of
their negatives.
You hit that one exactly right. The fallacy that negative were somehow hardier than digital images is just plain wrong. That ability to make exact redundant copies of digital images was never possible with negatives under even the best of circumstances.

The average Joe will not keep their negatives in archival sleeves in an environment that will keep them from becoming useless with mold. They will be stuck in a drawer.

--
Chris, Broussard, LA
 
Every program that was written for an 8 bit DOS system was updated and enhanced as a 16 bit program and then 32 bit windows system and so on. You may have started with Wordperfect and Now I still use WordPerfect. Who is to say that new programs for reading images will not improve those old digital images?
"DO YOU THINK THOSE FLASH CARDS WILL BE READABLE 50 YEARS FROM NOW"?

Why not?
There is no reason to believe that those flash cards will not be readable in 1,000 years.
--
Chris, Broussard, LA
 
Film does take a lot of time to scan and retouch. But I still think it's fun to take out your film camera to shot from time to time because of the DR and tone of great film like Velvia, Tri-X, etc.

A 24x36mm image sampled at 9600i with a $300 Canon scanner gives you images at 110MP+
It's been my experience that after scanning an old negative or slide
at a decent resolution in a decent film scanner you get an image
which has infinite amount of dust and mini-scratches which take
literally hours to remove in PS - and YOU CAN NEVER REMOVE THEM ALL!
If you combine this with film (unlike digital) being very vulnerable
to inadvertent mistakes and accidents during taking as well as during
processing pictures, film starts looking like a nightmare compared to
digital.
--

 
And what digital camera are you comparing those images with, if I may ask? I happen to think that film's dead first and foremost because digital is better in quality.
 
I am guessing it is about the same number of people who had to send
in their cameras because they pushed their thumbs into the shutter
blades while changing film and needed a shutter replaced
That's a joke !

thats must be a joke, because most point and shoot film camera, the shutter is buit-in to lens, so theres no blade to damage.
 
Haven't quite figured out if the original poster is just being obstinate, retarded, or is trying to play a joke. However, I'll play along and set the facts straight on pretty much everything Sinwen claimed.

Even if we assume some mythical resurgence of film, where are you going to get it printed? You see, virtually all modern minilabs are now entirely digital and use mediocre scanners to aquire neg film because they print digitally. Optical based minilabs now occupy landfills and scrap yards because they are no longer as cost effective nor as flexible as modern mini-labs such as the Fuji Frontier. In fact, 80% of lab owners I've talked to are dumping their film processing services because they aren't making money on it.

Because of the above, sending native digital files to a digital printer, especially a closed loop one at a mini-lab, will result in far superior prints than screwing around with 35mm film because the lab has to convert the film to digital anyways, and that costs quality. Time and again I've listened to lab owners claim that cheap point and shoot digital cameras were producing betting prints from their digital labs than low speed color neg film taken with top notch gear because of the extra problems when it comes scanning print film.

The only way to get around the above is to buy your own film scanner and fart around dust spotting, profiles, de-grain filters, and Fuji and Kodak's constant emulsion changes. I've yet to encounter anybody in this forum besides myself that has any experience with conventional optical color printing, so lets throw that out. Frankly I have trouble calling anybody who takes color film to a lab to have it printed a 'photographer' anyways and would prefer to call them a consumer with a camera they don't know how to use.

Contrary to this, most experienced digital shooters have complete control of their image form start to finish while 'film worshippers' still can't make a color print without the technical services of a minimum wage teenager making decisions from them. This fact alone should end any debate on the subject and shows that 'film worshippers' are really just looking to blame for their lack of real skill.

So, to go 'back to film' from the photofinishing industry perspective has about as much chance as manufacturing moving from China to the U.S. You will always have weirdos conventionally printing B&W in their basement and fussing with B&W chems just to call themselvs 'fine art'. Mainly because they lack the brain cells to produce a color print anybody would want.

The archival debate is crude joke for the technically challenged. First, Fuji, and especially Kodak have only recently began to use archival dyes in their color materials. Kodak as late as the mid 90's was producing E-6, RA-4 and C-41 processed emulsions that were lucky to make it into the next decade without 15% dye failure. I have tons of colr negs and E-6 slides from the 80's and 90's, and much of the Kodak film (and prints) has already shown signs of degrading. Have a 16x20 on your wall printed on Kodak Supra paper Circa 1995'? Is that red or brown in the print because the magenta layer has degraded so badly I can no longer tell the difference. At least Fuji figured out how to get their FA-5 paper dyes stable beyond 25years.

Which pretty much leaves slide shooters as the only film hold outs, but you are back again to either scanning the film with a digital camera (scanner) to get a print from it, or doing nothing with it other than bragging about how good it looks while squinting at it with a loupe on al ight table.
 
I have increased my film output recently..you just cannot beat some film...tones and b&w is hard to match with digital
Who cares how much film you 'produce' when you can't share the image with somebody else unless you take another picture of it with a digital camera (film scanner), or take it to a lab at the mall so somebody with more skill than you can make a picture of it.

If you take a color neg to two different labs you'll get entirely different prints from each lab because of the 10,000 variables involves. So, who cares about 'tones' when you have no control of them in the first place.

If I take a digital file to two different labs running Frontier printers the final print comes out very close regardless of where it was taken.

Next point (most important): Because you don't know how to get decent images from your dSLR has no bearing on the technology. I'm willing to bet I can post grey scaled B&W images from my dSLR that will easily surpass any B&W image form film you can post. Matter of fact, given how many times you been trashed in prior threads on this same point, it woulnd't be much of a challenge.
 
Film will become a niche market for a small group of people who practice film photography as a craft.
Uh, no - or you just spelled cr*p wrong :-). Mostly for people who sucked at film based photography and looking for some type of excuse to blame digital photographers for taking better pictures than them.

Case in point, they hate computers, but are using a computer to post messages about how much they hate technology they don't understand, and NEVER provide a sample gallery of their film work.
 
A 24x36mm image sampled at 9600i with a $300 Canon scanner gives you
images at 110MP+
Is 9600 DPI the scanner's optical resolution or interpreted resolution? And remember that not all scanners are created equal. (It has been my experience that 4000 dpi in one scanner does not produce the same amount of detail as 4000 dpi does in another.)

When I scanned 35mm Velvia film with my Polaroid Sprint Scan 120 (4000 dpi optical resolution film scanner) at 4000 dpi, the images did not look as good as those shot with my 1Ds.

But maybe it was just me.

--
Alan Goldstein

http://www.goldsteinphoto.com
 
Some people organize better than others. My mother still has some albums full of priceless family photos, but she has asked me to digitize some as they are fading. She has the negatives for some photos, but not most. The photos and negatives she does have are not organized or indexed in any particular order. Some albums contain photos from roughly the same year or event, but you can spend hours trying to find a particular image among the many albums.

How many people own shoeboxes full of old photos? Just about everyone I know. A few lucky ones have the negatives as well. Getting reprints requires a special trip, so it rarely happens.

Over the last couple of years I've helped my family put all their digital images online, and I showed them how to add keywords as well. Now I see photographs of my nieces and nephews that I probably never would have seen unless I started digging trhough my brother or sister's photo shoebox back in the film days.

Of course the best approach is a multi-layered one: The first rule is delete the bad images and organize the good ones. It doesn't matter how long your images last if you can't find the good stuff. Second is to print the good ones and organize your print photos in such a way that will make sense to others. The third rule is to maintain a backup and archiving strategy that is reviewed and tested from time to time. Avoid keeping the only copy in a proprietary format such as a camera RAW file. Keep the RAW file, but make sure a JPEG also exists. Organize them locally and also upload photos to an online website. Don't bet on that Website lasting forever though, and don't bet on your computer lasting forever either. When the time comes to upgrade to a new system, make sure your photographic media and file formats are still readable, and convert them to new media and file formats if necessary.

50 years from now open formats like JPEG will still be readable. Less common proprietary formats, like camera RAW files, may not be as easily read.

If you really want your photos to outlast you, select some choice samples and donate digital copies to a group that will take care of them well into the future. Local museums are examples of institutions that maintain well organized photographic archives....they especially appreciate photos that are easy to place in terms of roughly when and where they were taken.

Sean
 
i Agree that film will still be around, just like there are still people who prefer painting to photography. I feel there is enough space in the sun for all media.
 
Haven't quite figured out if the original poster is just being
obstinate, retarded, or is trying to play a joke. However, I'll play
along and set the facts straight on pretty much everything Sinwen
claimed.
Well, he does state that he doesn't have a digital camera of ANY kind yet. In another thread, though, he's giving buying advice.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
Who cares how much film you 'produce' when you can't share the image
with somebody else unless you take another picture of it with a
digital camera (film scanner), or take it to a lab at the mall so
somebody with more skill than you can make a picture of it.
I do share them..its called a print!
If you take a color neg to two different labs you'll get entirely
different prints from each lab because of the 10,000 variables
involves. So, who cares about 'tones' when you have no control of
them in the first place.
Didnt seem to bother photographers for the last 50 years...and photo lab machines are a bit more advanced than you make out..
If I take a digital file to two different labs running Frontier
printers the final print comes out very close regardless of where it
was taken.
Woooah! lmao
Next point (most important): Because you don't know how to get decent
images from your dSLR has no bearing on the technology.
Yeah they all come out pants man!















But then I dont have a damn clue do I ???

I'm willing
to bet I can post grey scaled B&W images from my dSLR that will
easily surpass any B&W image form film you can post. Matter of fact,
given how many times you been trashed in prior threads on this same
point, it woulnd't be much of a challenge.
Now you are hilarious!











I know Scott you are so awesome as a photographer..I beg for mercy you dont crush me with your mega images...photography was never a competition..

If you dont agree with my view..no problem..but stop the macho bs please.....

And if my shots are not to your taste..then no problem either..but its pretty unwise to suggest that I am unable to operate a digital camera...

You keep doing this...chest beating...lord knows why.

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)
 
Film will become a niche market for a small group of people who practice film photography as a craft.
Uh, no - or you just spelled cr*p wrong :-). Mostly for people who
sucked at film based photography and looking for some type of excuse
to blame digital photographers for taking better pictures than them.
Oh dear this is just really really silly!
Case in point, they hate computers, but are using a computer to post
messages about how much they hate technology they don't understand,
and NEVER provide a sample gallery of their film work.
Guess what a pc is a tool......that is it.

And ever hear of Cartier Bresson? But hey I guess he sucked too...because he used film....

Photography is about pictures..that is IT!

Use what you like

I will, but dont get off telling fim shooters they are crappy.......if you hate film...so be it..I dont...tough luck..does me using film cause you sleepless nights?

Scott I say again..you are not in competition with others..try to enjoy the art...for what it is.
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)
 
I've yet to encounter anybody
in this forum besides myself that has any experience with
conventional optical color printing, so lets throw that out. Frankly
I have trouble calling anybody who takes color film to a lab to have
it printed a 'photographer' anyways and would prefer to call them a
consumer with a camera they don't know how to use.
Oh dear Scott,
You experience against mine little boy...
--
http://www.photo-utopia.blogspot.com/
 

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