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Large Softbox vs 7 ft Octabank

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Emile Saint Laurent

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I am working on a project photographing 3 to 5 ballet dancers with strobe in a studio setting. In this case they will not be dancing, but may "move into a pose" on a designated area.

I have been using umbrellas in the past with OK results. Currently I am considering

upgrading to a 54" x 72" softbox or a 7 ft octabank for my Elinchrom monolights. How would the light from an octabank be different to justify the cost which is 2 to 3 times greater than the largest softbox - depending on the manufacturer?

If anyone has any experiences or information on these type of light modifiers, brands,
makes, etc. it would be greatly appreciated.

Emile
--
ESL
 
More specific, please. Which exactly do you mean? XL rectangle softboxes vs. Octa softboxes or the large parabolic umbrellas (Bron et al)?

The diff. shapes make practically no difference (besides catchlight) - other with Para umbrellas.

--
cheers, Peter

Germany
 
I have the 54x72" Silver Multidome softbox by Photoflex. I've used it only once, and it was a relative pain. It's too heavy for my AB800 to accommodate it. So I had to rig a means of mounting it to a stand first, then let the AB attach to it. It sucks up a lot of power. With my AB800 set at maximum strength, at around 3-4 feet from my subject, I could barely push f/8 at ISO 100.

I originally got it for group/family portraits. But I'm affraid the depth of field from the low power output would be insufficient to capture even small groups, unless I boost the ISO to 400 or something. Or maybe you could remove the inner baffle and sacrifice a bit of softness.

It's a pain to handle because of its size and weight. Usually I leave all my softboxes assembled, including this one. I hang them from the garage ceiling for storage. But just getting this thing into and out of the house is a chore. The ideal solution would be to have a permanent studio, and to hang this thing from the ceiling for studio work, as it has special hanging loops meant just for that purpose.

But when all is said and done, it can provide some nice light. This image I just posted a couple of weeks ago, which was the first time I had used it.

-proudfather



 
Thank you for your replies and the images included. It's helpful to know that there is extra time and effort involved in transporting and setting up XL softboxes. Because of space considerations I will need to transport and set up the equipment at the ballet studios.

To be more specific I was referring to XL and octa softboxes made by such manufacturers as Chimera, Photoflex, and Westcott. At this point I could not afford the large parabolic lighting fixture made by Broncolor.

Thank you again.

Emile
--
ESL
 
Emile Saint Laurent said:
I am working on a project photographing 3 to 5 ballet dancers with
strobe in a studio setting. In this case they will not be dancing,
but may "move into a pose" on a designated area.

I have been using umbrellas in the past with OK results. Currently
I am considering
upgrading to a 54" x 72" softbox or a 7 ft octabank for my
Elinchrom monolights. How would the light from an octabank be
different to justify the cost which is 2 to 3 times greater than
the largest softbox - depending on the manufacturer?

If anyone has any experiences or information on these type of light
modifiers, brands,
makes, etc. it would be greatly appreciated.

Emile
--
ESL
Click to expand...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Emili

I to considering to purchase x-large soft box. But 7 ft Chimera is to big and to expensive to heavy. Photoflex make good soft boxes but problem is they to heavy and regular depth, I don't have room for regular depth size. Then we come to two boxes and they: shallow- good for small studio, good quality and not heavy.

This two boxes is:Chimera 54X72X20=$440. Mfr#1245. And Wafer 200 have 2 interior bafflers+diffuser 54X75X26=$675. The difference between this two:Wafer200 superior quality but difficult to assemble/disassemble do th very high tension of poles.

Chimera have only one interior baffler+diffuser, good quality but not as good as Wafer, Chimera is easy to assemble/disassemble and is 6" more shallow then Wafer.

In practice Wafer is more "studio box" Chimera is more "mobile box"- less time to assemble. With Chimera you lose light on top and bottom of box by= 0.02 comparing to center of the box.

Ryszard
 
As Peter mentioned, no-matter the shape of the softbox, square, rectangular or octo, for equivalent surface, not much difference, except in the catchlights if that matters. An octo will wrap around the subject in an even pattern, the softbox gives you two choices, whether large wrap horizontally, or narrower wrap with extended top to bottom coverage.

The rectangular ones are easier to use in a room, as you actually have two possibilities, horiz or vert, with somewhat different coverages, and in horiz position, they can be raised higher than an octo. A 7 ft octo will have the head a max of 42 inches to the ceiling, a 54x72 softbox can have the head raised 27 inches from the ceiling. Could matter in low-ceiling rooms.

The 7 ft octo has a surface 1,4x times the surface of a 54x72 in softbox, so they're not really the same thing...But I'd buy two x-large boxes for the price of one octo if it was me...think about the possibilities...

As to weight, I currently use a Photoflex x-Large on a speedo 102 head at the tip of a heavy-duty boom and weight is absolutely manageable....depends on the built of the head...can't be flimsy for sure...

--
Jean Bernier

All photographs are only more or less credible illusions
 
Emile Saint Laurent said:
To be more specific I was referring to XL and octa softboxes made
by such manufacturers as Chimera, Photoflex, and Westcott. At this
point I could not afford the large parabolic lighting fixture made
by Broncolor.
Click to expand...
They take little space on transportation and are easily set up. E.g. two 42"x78" side by side make for a large source when you place your umbrella flashes tightly behind them.
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/RM7230

--
cheers, Peter

Germany
 
tc,

to each his own - but how much less amazing do you consider e.g. a Chimera with a deflector?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/96794-REG/Elinchrom_26303_Deflector_Set_2_for.html

From Elinchrom at $ 1,100 you get a umbrella shaped softbox with reversed lamp fitting. The $ 50 deflector (or built to measure by a mechanic shop) does exactly the same IMO.

(not important, but btw, it's not Elinchrom's invention, I used a XL umbrella w/diffusor and a revers-mounted tiny BEAM head back in the 70th. Later I had a shop make me some 'deflectors', the rod fitting into the umbrella hole, for use with soboxes).

--
cheers, Peter

Germany
 
tcphoto1 said:
I purchased a Chimera Pro in large when I started shooting. The
results were very good, but then I discovered the Elinchrom
Octabank. It is the standard for professional quality softboxes.
Yes, it is expensive and rather large but the results are amazing.
If you cannot afford one, I would suggest renting one for the
project.
--
http://web.mac.com/tcphoto1/iWeb/Food/Food.html
http://web.mac.com/tcphoto1/iWeb/Fashion/Fashion.html
http://tcphoto1.blogspot.com/
Click to expand...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Tony

I have question for you: when FIRST time you assemble this big Chimera 54X72" soft box, how long take you to assemble? . I planing to buy big box, but I did not make my decision between Chimera 1245 and Wafer 200. I know Wafer soft box take much longer to assemble do to high tension of poles, but I do not know how much more time? that what I have ti find out.

Thank you

Ryszard
 
Peter, I am not familiar with the deflector, but it looks like an interesting add on. I based my opinion on years of assisting and then shooting my own images. I didn't say that Elinchrom invented the wheel, but perhaps improved upon it. That's my own experience, I encourage everyone to conduct their own experiments. Just thought that I'd share my experience.

The Chimera is easy to assemble, insert the rods, mount on speedring and then mount onto the flash head. I find that it takes about the same amount of time to assemble both.
--
http://web.mac.com/tcphoto1/iWeb/Food/Food.html
http://web.mac.com/tcphoto1/iWeb/Fashion/Fashion.html
http://tcphoto1.blogspot.com/
 
Hummmm, are you asking the right question???? There are many photographs of a ballet dancer that could be considered.

1: head shots for portfolio
2: pretty portrait
3: pretty photograph for mom and dad
4: simple setup for classic dance poses
5: sort-of dance poses with "photographers lighting"
6: dance poses with "quasi - stage lighting"

Which general type are you considering? Lighting will vary as needed.

For example, a dance production might be have "cross lighting" with main lighting from the wings. You could simulate this with stripboxes on each side of the dancer. For example, from Ivans K's page ( http://members.shaw.ca/ivansphotography/ ):



Different lighting styles require different technology and skills.

Another note - Too many people think "SOFTBOX' as the ultimate solution. This is a questionable religion - often hot lights, small umbrellas, stripboxes, gels, etc are really better solutions but our soft box religion gets in the way.
--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca
 
I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. I did not realize that Calumet panels could offer such an economical and versatile solution. This seems like the way to go without increasing either one's financial burden or causing transportation difficulties. Years ago when shooting B&W film I used lighting diagrams made in the 40's that listed various effects of continuous light sources. Wish something like that were available for the light modifiers of today, but it may not be practical because of many variables involved.

Yes, softboxes can be limiting. I considered using them one day after stumbling accross a group of dancers pacing and stretching nervously before a dress rehearsal. They were glowing in their costumes as they were illuminated by two large windows. I would have lost my credibility if I tried to photograph them when they all seemed so tense. I did have permission to shoot during the dress rehearsal, but the dim stage lights allowing exposures at 1/30 sec, f2.8 and ISO 800 did not translate well into the quality I was looking for. Umbrellas and rim lights can to some extent mimick stage lighting and have better image quality (especially for skin tones). This is my own project and I admit it, I am shooting for some pretty portraits of dancers which would offer an element beauty and fashion quality that at least for me seems difficult if not impossible to capture on stage.

I much appreciate you bringing up all these concerns because it helps to outline and sort out many creative issues involved in photographing ballet dancers.

--
ESL
 
1.Elinchrom set up and breakdown is MUCH faster.
2.Elinchrom has more surface area than rectangular SB

3.The light is bounced of the back of the Elinchrom which results in more even coverage on the front diffusion panel.

4.Elinchrom is relatively thin compared to most large SB(wafers are the exception)

5.Clients are amazed by how it looks and will comment positively(never had a comment on a regular SB at all) I know, silly, but it does set you apart form other photogs.
--
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has
genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe
 
Hi,

Its great to know someone is keen to use serious lighting equip - real size and hopefully power. It makes a huge difference!

If you can get even light in the soft box it may be OK, but use a flash meter to test top, middle and bottom.

Then check the Octa for evenness.

The other issue together with evenness is light spread. How wide or narrow do you need the light to be?

Of course, you will need enough power for such size light shapers.

I'd be comfortable with either if they were even, but you may be able to get some barn door set up for the soft box which could be helpful.

Apart from that, you will get different shape highlights in the eyes.

Good shooting & test if you possible can.
--
Peter

Persuasive Marketing Systems -
inc Copywriting, Design & Photography
 
aimpic said:
Hi,

Its great to know someone is keen to use serious lighting equip -
real size and hopefully power. It makes a huge difference!

If you can get even light in the soft box it may be OK, but use a
flash meter to test top, middle and bottom.
Click to expand...
Was all ready tested, Chimera 54X72 have 0.2 difference on top and bottom.
aimpic said:
Wafer200, 54X75 have 0.1 difference on top and bottom, do perhaps to two bafflers.
Click to expand...
Then check the Octa for evenness.

Yes Octa is more even then rectangular box

The other issue together with evenness is light spread. How wide
aimpic said:
or narrow do you need the light to be?

Of course, you will need enough power for such size light shapers.

I'd be comfortable with either if they were even, but you may be
able to get some barn door set up for the soft box which could be
helpful.

Apart from that, you will get different shape highlights in the eyes.
Click to expand...
Yes light reflection in eyes is very nice from Octa
aimpic said:
Good shooting & test if you possible can.
Click to expand...
--
aimpic said:
Peter

Persuasive Marketing Systems -
inc Copywriting, Design & Photography
Click to expand...
 
Emile Saint Laurent said:
I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. I did not
realize that Calumet panels could offer such an economical and
versatile solution. This seems like the way to go without
increasing either one's financial burden or causing transportation
difficulties. Years ago when shooting B&W film I used lighting
diagrams made in the 40's that listed various effects of continuous
light sources. Wish something like that were available for the
light modifiers of today, but it may not be practical because of
many variables involved.

Yes, softboxes can be limiting. I considered using them one day
after stumbling accross a group of dancers pacing and stretching
nervously before a dress rehearsal. They were glowing in their
costumes as they were illuminated by two large windows. I would
have lost my credibility if I tried to photograph them when they
all seemed so tense. I did have permission to shoot during the
dress rehearsal, but the dim stage lights allowing exposures at
1/30 sec, f2.8 and ISO 800 did not translate well into the quality
I was looking for. Umbrellas and rim lights can to some extent
mimick stage lighting and have better image quality (especially for
skin tones). This is my own project and I admit it, I am shooting
for some pretty portraits of dancers which would offer an element
beauty and fashion quality that at least for me seems difficult if
not impossible to capture on stage.

I much appreciate you bringing up all these concerns because it
helps to outline and sort out many creative issues involved in
photographing ballet dancers.

--
ESL
Click to expand...
Those light panels are very handy for those of us on a budget. Sure I would like to have a 4'x5' or larger softbox, but in the mean time, I will use what I have to the max. I actually found my panel at a garage sale w/ a translucent, white & gold cover.

This picture was taken using only a single 300ws mono, a 4'x4' sheet of white styrofoam insulation as a lower reflector and my translucent panel mounted to the ceiling and hanging down about 3 feet on one end to make a quasi clamshell lighting setup. The strobe was bounced off the ceiling and down into the panel overhead about 24" from subject.

 
Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and images. Since I have Elinchrom monolights I ordered an Octabank by the same brand with the understanding that I can send it back within two weeks if it does not work out. I will have a chance to compare it to panels and other softboxes. If all the testimonials about the Elinchrom
Octabank are any indication, I think it will be a keeper.

Cheers

--
ESL
 
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