420ex in portrait orientation - how?

KevinO

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Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30 when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
 
Rotate the head of the flash !!
Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact
that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting
vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen
on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck
with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
 
The head on the 420EX swivels in both axes, so why not just aim the flash forward and then 45 degrees to the right. Then when you tilt the D30 into the portrait orientation, the flash will be pointing at the ceiling.

Andy.
Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?
 
You can rotate the head but the flash is now offset considerably to one side...not directly above the lens. This can create a visible shadow behind your subject. I prefer to use a remote flash cable and hold the flash in the appropriate orientation. It is a bit awkward to hold the flash in one hand and the camera in the other, but, for the few times I do this, I find it more covenient than carrying around a heavy Stroboframe flash bracket. Instead, I just carry the remote cable in my pocket and pop in on for the series of portrait shots. There are also other uses for seperately aiming the flash, like for macro shots. Having the remote cable available adds versatility to your shooting.

Danny
Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact
that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting
vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen
on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck
with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
 
Hi All,

:)

sure, I thought about this, after shooting, I must add ;)

I would still like to have the flash actually above the camera, I think that keeping the camera, subject and flash in the same plane make more sense.

Obviously, for special occasions, I see can see where the off-shoe cable will come in handi - thanks for the tips - now where can I buy this cable....

Best regards, as ever,

KevinO
Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact
that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting
vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen
on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck
with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
 
See this link:

http://www01.bhphotovideo.com/default.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___12972___CASC2OC___REG___CatID=654___SID=ECDA13E0E50
:)

sure, I thought about this, after shooting, I must add ;)

I would still like to have the flash actually above the camera, I
think that keeping the camera, subject and flash in the same plane
make more sense.

Obviously, for special occasions, I see can see where the off-shoe
cable will come in handi - thanks for the tips - now where can I
buy this cable....

Best regards, as ever,

KevinO
Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact
that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting
vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen
on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck
with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
--Doug Walker
 
Hmmm...long links...don't know if they will work on this forum

Offshoe camera cord.

http://www.adorama.com/details.tpl?cart=10115518151244842&sku=CAOCSC&disp_main-category=Flash/Lighting&disp_category=Flash%20Accessories&disp_Sub-Category=TTL%20Shoes%20%26%20Accessories

Stroboframe flash bracket with flash reorientation (there are a few different designs and these are made by other companies as well.)

http://www.adorama.com/details.tpl?cart=10115518151244842&sku=SB300100&disp_main-category=Flash/Lighting&disp_category=Flash%20Accessories&disp_Sub-Category=Camera%20Brackets

Good luck,
Danny
:)

sure, I thought about this, after shooting, I must add ;)

I would still like to have the flash actually above the camera, I
think that keeping the camera, subject and flash in the same plane
make more sense.

Obviously, for special occasions, I see can see where the off-shoe
cable will come in handi - thanks for the tips - now where can I
buy this cable....

Best regards, as ever,

KevinO
Hi all!

After taking some shots of my son, I obviously overlooked that fact
that when I switched on the D30 grip and started shooting
vertically, the 420ex, still in a 45 degree setting with a Stofen
on, was boucing off the wall! :)

Is there a recommended way to orientate the flash above the D30
when shooting with the camera in the vertical alignment?

I have been looking through the threads, but have not had much luck
with the searches :(

The web seems to offer the Stroboframe units - any thoughts?

thanks for all and any assistance.

Best regards,

KevinO
 
I'm going to go along with Daniel's suggestion of the Stroboflip. I just went through this a few weeks ago.

I first bought one by Lindahl, but returned it due to the following:

1. The included hotshoe grip was machined too small to actually accept ANY flash hotshoe. To make it usable, it was necessary to buy a different one by Stroboframe. I still can't figure out how/why it's still on the market that way. And, it's not just one unit that's like that.

2. The alignment of the flash was never 100% centered with the lens in my configuration. Although adjustable, it wasn't centered in both horiz AND vertical orientation.

Other than that, it was a nicer design than the Stroboframe or Delta solutions which employed the same strategy.

When i returned it, i reluctantly allowed the salesman to show me his recommendation. I had previously resisted even looking at it, as it appears to be a large, bulky, unwieldy item. It turns out, though that the Stroboflip IS the best, most functional solution for my needs. I got it at B&H, where the salespeople really have experience with all the stuff they sell.

Save yourself some grief, go somewhere where you can try the different models WITH cameras (and drives) attached.
 
Nature photography and portrait/fashion/people photography are different animals. No one's suggesting that keeping a light source aligned with the lens axis is a rule. The question was a very specific one. The guy has a specific technical need/want. You may have thought your response was a particularly smart-alecy one, but it's rather off-base.

Maybe you should call up Scavullo and tell him he knows nothing about shooting people, as there was a time in his studio where he had his main light source (strobe) permanently affixed relative to his camera position, and no one was allowed to touch it. I've heard there was quite a bit of dust on it.

It's a very commonly used technique in fashion/people photography to shoot with a light source perfectly on-axis. In fact, that effect is best illustrated in uses of ring-flash.

I guess the deal in landscape photography is that there usually isn't a concern about where the shadow lies, as it's generally not going to be as unflattering to the subject as when you get a huge, afro-shaped shadow on a wall just behind and to the right of your model.

rk
I think that keeping the camera, subject and flash in the
same plane make more sense.
When you shoot outdoors, do you also try to line up the subject and
camera with the sun?
 
Many thanks to all for the helpful comments, I think the Stroboframe flash flip is the one I'll be after.

Best as ever,

KevinO
I'm going to go along with Daniel's suggestion of the Stroboflip. I
just went through this a few weeks ago.

I first bought one by Lindahl, but returned it due to the following:
1. The included hotshoe grip was machined too small to actually
accept ANY flash hotshoe. To make it usable, it was necessary to
buy a different one by Stroboframe. I still can't figure out
how/why it's still on the market that way. And, it's not just one
unit that's like that.
2. The alignment of the flash was never 100% centered with the lens
in my configuration. Although adjustable, it wasn't centered in
both horiz AND vertical orientation.

Other than that, it was a nicer design than the Stroboframe or
Delta solutions which employed the same strategy.

When i returned it, i reluctantly allowed the salesman to show me
his recommendation. I had previously resisted even looking at it,
as it appears to be a large, bulky, unwieldy item. It turns out,
though that the Stroboflip IS the best, most functional solution
for my needs. I got it at B&H, where the salespeople really have
experience with all the stuff they sell.

Save yourself some grief, go somewhere where you can try the
different models WITH cameras (and drives) attached.
 
I'm sorry if it came across as "smart-alecy", but it is an honest question. I've never heard anyone say that it was good to keep the light, subject, and lens in line together before so I was curious.
Nature photography and portrait/fashion/people photography are
different animals.
That's true, but much portrait/fashion/people photography are taken in broad daylight, so I'm not sure how the differences are relevent.
Maybe you should call up Scavullo and tell him he knows nothing
I'm sorry, I don't know who Mr Scavullo is. Can you give me some background (other than that he doesn't move his flash)?
It's a very commonly used technique in fashion/people photography
to shoot with a light source perfectly on-axis. In fact, that
effect is best illustrated in uses of ring-flash.
That's very interesting. I thought ring-flash was mostly only used in macro, but I guess not! But if the light is all straight on from the lens like that, how do you get any modeling shadows for feeling of depth?
I guess the deal in landscape photography is that there usually
isn't a concern about where the shadow lies, as it's generally not
going to be as unflattering to the subject as when you get a huge,
afro-shaped shadow on a wall just behind and to the right of your
model.
The advice I've gotten is to either get the subject away from the wall or to put a slave flash behind to illuminate the backdrop.

I'm confused about where you place the shadow. If it's only to the right, then the light would have to be only left and not rotated upwards to bounce off the ceiling, as people have said. I can see why that would be a problem. If rotated up, the shadow should cast downwards and to the side. If the subject is a reasonable distance away from the backdrop, it should be cast on the floor. But, control of that shadow isn't really the point of my question. I mean, if you take a picture in daylight without flash, you still have to be aware that the sun could cast a big ugly shadow on the wall behind the subject, so it seems the same to me.

I am just unclear on the finer points of it -- if the gentleman prefers to illuminate the subject front and center with flash, does he also prefer to illuminate naturally front and center? If not, why not?
I think that keeping the camera, subject and flash in the
same plane make more sense.
When you shoot outdoors, do you also try to line up the subject and
camera with the sun?
 
Arthur,

Sorry if i mistakenly reacted to your response. There's so much flaming going on in any web board, that i just assumed that's what you were doing.

Scavullo is Francesco Scavullo, one of the top names in fashion photography for the last 30+ years. He's best known for having shot nearly all of the Cosmo covers. Not sure if he's still doing them. I assume so, since they're still in his style. He also has several other books dealing with fashion, portraiture and nudes. He's also rather famous for the Brooke Shields Calvin Klein ads ( i think?).

I didn't mean that he NEVER moves his flash NOW. I had heard, though, from an assistant or two that for a time (either in the 70s or 80s) that it was so fixed and immovable that it had gathered an appreciable amount of dust. He was so known for his standard of beauty lighting, that he kept it there semi-permanently. Not sure what type of light it was, maybe a custom-rigged umbrella concoction?
That's very interesting. I thought ring-flash was mostly only used
in macro, but I guess not! But if the light is all straight on
from the lens like that, how do you get any modeling shadows for
feeling of depth?
The ring flash is used a lot now by fashion guys, and is sort of a throwback to 70s/80s style when it was a big thing. You're right, the usual use is in macro applications, with smaller ones, but the better strobe manufacturers (profoto, sinar, etc.) make larger ones that are more often used in fashion. And yah, the effect is not to create natural looking light/shadows. It gives you a halo shadow all the way around the subject, if the subject is a certain distance from a flat backdrop. Examples: Raymond Meier uses it almost exclusively in product and fashion shots (Vogue). Also, Michel Comte uses it a lot. Most of the big fashion guys have experimented with it. If you want, i can email you an example or two. I don't know how to post pix here. I guess i should learn....
The advice I've gotten is to either get the subject away from the
wall or to put a slave flash behind to illuminate the backdrop.
I'm confused about where you place the shadow. If it's only to the
right....
I wasn't suggesting that the shadow should be on the right. I was saying that when you turn your camera to portrait position (vertical), unless you have a device to maintain the flash at the centered position, the flash will also be turned, resulting in it being on the left of the lens. That's assuming you turn the camera body counterclockwise, with the shutter button on top. So, the flash then illuminates from the left, casting the shadow on the right. I was just saying that that's the result people get when they don't take precautions not to arrive at that.

If you look at the better wedding photographers, as well, you'll usually see flash brackets on their cameras to ensure the flash stays centered. That's pretty much the standard in that line of work too.

In outdoor photography, it doesn't matter so much for a few reasons. The background may not be close enough to register a shadow in the frame. Or, the light is such a broad source that it doesn't focus the shadow as much as a small, close light source like a flash. Or, the hard sunlight can be part of the effect. Peter Lindberg and Helmut Newton love shooting in the harshest sunlight.
When you shoot outdoors, do you also try to line up the subject and
camera with the sun?
Nope. Outdoors, i almost never want flat lighting like that. I usually use two different manners of thinking and working with artificial light versus sunlight/ambient light. With flash, i make efforts to ensure that the light is as flattering to the subject as possible (usually women), and that means either "flat" (if it's hard and directional source), or with some modeling/from some angle (if it's soft). Those aren't rules, but if you focus a hard light source on a woman from the wrong angle, it's going to show every one of her skin's imperfections, every hair, etc.....

Okay then. I'm tired.
rk
 
Sorry if i mistakenly reacted to your response.
No worries. I understand how it is.
If you want, i can email you an example or two.
While I'd very much appreciate being able to see examples, I would rather see them here or maybe you could provide some URLs for pics already available on the web. If that's too annoying, don't worry about it -- I'll just have to hit the library or something to find some examples.
If you look at the better wedding photographers
I have to go to 2 weddings in the next couple of months -- I'll be watching 8)
that means either "flat" (if it's
hard and directional source), or with some modeling/from some angle
(if it's soft). Those aren't rules, but if you focus a hard light
source on a woman from the wrong angle, it's going to show every
one of her skin's imperfections, every hair, etc.....
Ah! I think that is the key thing I was not thinking of. I see what you are saying -- hard light from an angle would show more skin texture, which, I agree, is a big no-no. Hard light that is flat shows no modelling, no depth, but it also doesn't bring out skin texture, so it is probably a net win for glamour.

So if I don't misunderstand you, you're not saying anything against rotating the flash head to bounce off the ceiling. If you rotate your camera CCW to portrait and then rotate the flash head CW to bounce off the ceiling, you should have diffuse light coming from above and left. I do agree that rotate the camera without rotating the flash head to bounce off the ceiling will have poor results. This goes with the typical caveats. as in if you're too close or get the bounce angle wrong, you'll get too much direct light.
 
Though more expensive than an offshoe cord, you can use the STE2.

The advantage is that you do not have to carry the bulk of the flash, an the lighting does not depend of your position or of camera's orientation.
 

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