S30 Focus Problems

The S30 strikes a nice balance between portability and, features. I've recommended it to friends and considered it as an upgrade to my S110. But while some get crisp photos, one of my friends has encountered focusing problems similar to those posted on the rec.photo.digital newsgroup:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=61d68e8c.0203132320.1f1bea41%40posting.google.com

Is this a matter of technique or are there some tricks in setting up the auto-focus? Comments from S30 owners would be particularly appreciated.--Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner)
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

I didn't have these problems. He should post some pictures so we can see what's going on. Maybe they are in focus but not as sharp to his taste?

Also does he expect to get perfect focus in total darkness on objects more than 6 feet away? Haven't tried it but most cameras don't even have an AF assist light.

Uncle Frank said:

The S30 strikes a nice balance between portability and, features.
I've recommended it to friends and considered it as an upgrade to
my S110. But while some get crisp photos, one of my friends has
encountered focusing problems similar to those posted on the
rec.photo.digital newsgroup:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=61d68e8c.0203132320.1f1bea41%40posting.google.com

Is this a matter of technique or are there some tricks in setting
up the auto-focus? Comments from S30 owners would be particularly
appreciated.
--
Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner)
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Click to expand...

Lucien said:

I didn't have these problems. He should post some pictures so we
can see what's going on. Maybe they are in focus but not as sharp
to his taste?

Click to expand...

Here are a few examples:

http://www.pbase.com/image/1194357
http://www.pbase.com/image/1194374

http://www.pbase.com/image/1220566--Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner) http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

I read the group message and looked at the samples. I'll agree that the S30's AF lamp isn't the brightest I've seen. With my own S30, I am routinely very impressed by the number of things I can do to ruin shots, one after the other.

I'm just guessing but two very common beginner problems are camera shake and misuse of the Macro focus mode. Lots of new camera owners are dissatisfied with image focus until they learn more about their cameras.

Maybe it's just me but in the following image there appears to be a pronounced difference in the softness of vertical and horizontal lines (the horizontal lines are much softer). This leads me to suspect that the camera was in vertical motion as the shot was taken (note that the shutter was only 1/60sec): http://www.pbase.com/image/1194374/original

Image 1220566 was shot at 1/400sec and EXIF data shows Macro as "Off". In this case, my only thought is that the scene changed after AF lock had already been acheived. Just a thought.

Unless the focus is consistently bad, I would seriously suspect the camera operator. On the other hand, I recently looked at a friend's Kodak that couldn't focus on anything no matter what the circumstances - that unit was simply defective or broken, no doubt about it.

Uncle Frank said:

The S30 strikes a nice balance between portability and, features.
I've recommended it to friends and considered it as an upgrade to
my S110. But while some get crisp photos, one of my friends has
encountered focusing problems similar to those posted on the
rec.photo.digital newsgroup:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=61d68e8c.0203132320.1f1bea41%40posting.google.com

Is this a matter of technique or are there some tricks in setting
up the auto-focus? Comments from S30 owners would be particularly
appreciated.
--
Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner)
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Click to expand...

I agree with that .

• The first picture I have no clue. I've had never a situation like that.

Maybe it was by accident in macro or MF or the camera is simply broken.

• Yes that looks like camera shake and not out of focus.
• Third picture: obviously too close? Should have used macro.

Nancy said:

I read the group message and looked at the samples. I'll agree
that the S30's AF lamp isn't the brightest I've seen. With my own
S30, I am routinely very impressed by the number of things I can do
to ruin shots, one after the other.

I'm just guessing but two very common beginner problems are camera
shake and misuse of the Macro focus mode. Lots of new camera
owners are dissatisfied with image focus until they learn more
about their cameras.

Maybe it's just me but in the following image there appears to be a
pronounced difference in the softness of vertical and horizontal
lines (the horizontal lines are much softer). This leads me to
suspect that the camera was in vertical motion as the shot was
taken (note that the shutter was only 1/60sec):
http://www.pbase.com/image/1194374/original

Image 1220566 was shot at 1/400sec and EXIF data shows Macro as
"Off". In this case, my only thought is that the scene changed
after AF lock had already been acheived. Just a thought.

Unless the focus is consistently bad, I would seriously suspect the
camera operator. On the other hand, I recently looked at a
friend's Kodak that couldn't focus on anything no matter what the
circumstances - that unit was simply defective or broken, no doubt
about it.

Click to expand...

EXIF data in that image shows the camera at about half zoom so, given the perspective, it's safe to assume that the subject was well beyond macro range (probably about 7-feet away I'd guess).

Lucien said:

• Third picture: obviously too close? Should have used macro.

Click to expand...

Lucien said:

• The first picture I have no clue. I've had never a situation like that.

Click to expand...

With a shutter of 1/1000th and an aperture of 4.5, the problem shouldn't be related to operater unsteadiness or depth of field. Note that nothing in that picture is in focus.

Lucien said:

(#2) Yes that looks like camera shake and not out of focus.

Click to expand...

I agree, and it's logical considering the slow shutter speed of 1/60th. But I believe my friend was using auto mode. Isn't is curious that the S30 didn't select a tighter aperture coupled with a shorter exposure time?

Lucien said:

• Third picture: obviously too close? Should have used macro.

Click to expand...

The S30 can focus as close 80 cm (2.6 feet) in normal mode. In order to capture the image shown using a zoomed focal length of 73mm, I'm guessing the camera was about 6 feet away. Isn't that out of the range of macro?--Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner) http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Uncle Frank said:

I believe my friend was using auto mode. Isn't is
curious that the S30 didn't select a tighter aperture coupled with
a shorter exposure time?

Click to expand...

Edit: I meant to say "a wider aperture coupled with a shorter exposure time".

Note: I didn't see Nancy's comment on pic #3 until after I had posted, but it's nice to know we agree on this point. --Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner) http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

I believe my friend was using auto mode. Isn't is
curious that the S30 didn't select a tighter aperture coupled with
a shorter exposure time?

Click to expand...

Edit: I meant to say "a wider aperture coupled with a shorter
exposure time".

Click to expand...

I don't know how S30 decides but either decision could be bad (too narrow depth of field or to short exposure time). 1/60 isn't bad though with reasonable steady hand. It should have given the warning 'camera shake' when he took the picture.

UncleFR said:

Note: I didn't see Nancy's comment on pic #3 until after I had
posted, but it's nice to know we agree on this point.

Click to expand...

I looked at the original and exifreader shows subject distance 0.78m.

But I don't know if this field is reliable. If it is then this may be the reason.

If you're saying the subject was really further away then I got no clue since the picture doesn't show any other object.
Then again I may be wrong. Let me know what you think.

I made over 500 pictures and didn't run into these problems. I do check usually after I made the picture if the picture turned out fine. But I still don't remember having to delete in these kind of situations.

I checked the exit data of the 1st picture. It shows distance 0.95m. That seems to be to short. If this happens consistently I'd definitely exchange the camera. This does not look normal to me (unless his lens was dirty or something else broke).

Lucien said:

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

I believe my friend was using auto mode. Isn't is
curious that the S30 didn't select a tighter aperture coupled with
a shorter exposure time?

Click to expand...

Edit: I meant to say "a wider aperture coupled with a shorter
exposure time".

Click to expand...

I don't know how S30 decides but either decision could be bad (too
narrow depth of field or to short exposure time). 1/60 isn't bad
though with reasonable steady hand. It should have given the
warning 'camera shake' when he took the picture.

Lucien said:

Note: I didn't see Nancy's comment on pic #3 until after I had
posted, but it's nice to know we agree on this point.

Click to expand...

I looked at the original and exifreader shows subject distance 0.78m.
But I don't know if this field is reliable. If it is then this may
be the reason.
If you're saying the subject was really further away then I got no
clue since the picture doesn't show any other object.
Then again I may be wrong. Let me know what you think.

I made over 500 pictures and didn't run into these problems. I do
check usually after I made the picture if the picture turned out
fine. But I still don't remember having to delete in these kind of
situations.

Click to expand...

Lucien said:

I checked the exit data of the 1st picture. It shows distance
0.95m. That seems to be to short. If this happens consistently I'd
definitely exchange the camera. This does not look normal to me
(unless his lens was dirty or something else broke).

Click to expand...

Interesting. I just looked at a number of photos I've taken with my S110, and the EXIF field for subject distance is way off, though the images are in sharp focus. It would be useful if someone would confirm this impression by checking the exif data for a few their their own image files.--Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner) http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

I have taken a few where EXIF data claims incorrect distances. Some pics are in focus and some are out of focus. I assumed that the out of focus pics (though few) were a result of the out of focus problems the S30 seems to have. Is this a wrong assumption? Is this a defect?

Uncle Frank said:

Lucien said:

I checked the exit data of the 1st picture. It shows distance
0.95m. That seems to be to short. If this happens consistently I'd
definitely exchange the camera. This does not look normal to me
(unless his lens was dirty or something else broke).

Click to expand...

Interesting. I just looked at a number of photos I've taken with
my S110, and the EXIF field for subject distance is way off,
though the images are in sharp focus. It would be useful if
someone would confirm this impression by checking the exif data for
a few their their own image files.
--
Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner)
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Click to expand...

Hi Frank,

I remember when I got my P5, my photo is similar to your frend's. The reason for that was I forgot that digicam got a sloooow auto focus.

This may be a sily question, but do ask your friend wheather he half press the shutter and wait for the camera to do the autofocus.

Cheers,
Raymond

The google post referenced below was from me. I have taken the camera back and am now considering another s30 or maybe a Minolta S404, which just became available. Unfortunately I no longer have most of the pictures.

Note: I also know about pre focus, various scene modes, macro mode and how to turn it off, camera shake etc. When I try something I usually try it several different ways. If I see a problem in Auto mode, I would also try to repeat it in program mode, AV mode or manual mode etc.....

Here are my conclusions:

(Note I made sure the camera was not stuck in some weird mode, or in macro mode, etc.....)

1. In Auto mode the camera always chooses F2.8. (Unless time goes beyond 1/1000). This is normal for the S30. Not really a problem, just a bit disappointing.

2. Total darkness Auto focus, high contrast subject (horizontal lines, vertical lines etc....), 5ft, simply did not work properly (lock). (maybe 1 out of 10 worked). Conclusion: Camera was broken.

3. When using manual focus (actually measured the distance, not estimated), the displayed setting was off by 2-3ft for good focus at 8 feet. Conclusion: Camera was broken, but maybe this is normal for the S30?

4. Manual focus center magnified portion is pretty well useless. I tried several cameras at different stores. Must use manual focus by setting distance. Not really a problem IF THE DISTANCE SHOWN ON DISPLAY IS CORRECT. The distance shown was not correct on the camera I had (see 3).

5. I had taken several shots of a far distance subject (house at 500ft).
Auto (F2.8, 1/400) pictures with both Auto and Manual focus at infinity
AV (F8, 1/60) pictures with both Auto and Manual focus at infinity

And I noticed that the F8 picture had slightly better focus. (I used a tripod to make sure there was no camera shake). This seems to indicate to me that the camera I had was unable to reach the proper infinity focus point. Since the F8 depth of field is larger, the picture was in better focus. Conclusion: Camera was broken.

6. Pictures taken from various subjects, people, indoors, outdoors, etc were often seriously out of focus (estimated 1 in 5), especially indoor flash pictures. The camera indicated exposure lock before I fired. The green focus lock square usually indicated the correct subject. Note: since auto focus did not really work in complete darkness, the pictures in questions were shot with reasonable light levels. Conclusion: Camera was broken.

Question to owners of S30s: What kind of success rate do you get on properly focused pictures? Do you find you have to re-take many shots when preview indicates out of focus shots? (In auto mode).

From many comments and reviews I read, and pictures I looked at, it seems to me that many owners of the S30 report exceptional great focus of their pictures. The S40 seems to have a few focus complaints. May be there is a slight quality control problem with the focus system on the S30/S40, and only a few cameras have a problem.

Why did I not yet get another S30? The Minolta S404 just became available here, and I am looking for a camera with the least chromatic aberrations/purple(blue on S30) fringing for pictures taken in overexposed backgound situations (eg people hiking in sun exposed forest). It would be great if someone could point me to pictures that allow comparision of the two cameras (Canon S30 vs Minolta S404).

ben

Uncle Frank said:

The S30 strikes a nice balance between portability and, features.
I've recommended it to friends and considered it as an upgrade to
my S110. But while some get crisp photos, one of my friends has
encountered focusing problems similar to those posted on the
rec.photo.digital newsgroup:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=61d68e8c.0203132320.1f1bea41%40posting.google.com

Is this a matter of technique or are there some tricks in setting
up the auto-focus? Comments from S30 owners would be particularly
appreciated.
--
Uncle Frank (a happy S110 owner)
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/favorites

Click to expand...

Thanks for the contribution, Ben. It's been a few weeks since the last post here, and I thought the thread had run out of gas.

The issues you raised on the newsgroup helped start this discussion, and it's a little discouraging that they haven't been resolved yet. To that point, I am surprised to read that you are "considering another s30".

ben112 said:

Why did I not yet get another S30? The Minolta S404 just became
available here, and I am looking for a camera with the least
chromatic aberrations/purple(blue on S30) fringing for pictures
taken in overexposed backgound situations (eg people hiking in sun
exposed forest).

Click to expand...

Have you considered the Oly4040Z? It's only a 3X zoom versus the S404's 4X, but it has a much brighter lens. One of my mates has one, and is getting excellent results with it.

I just picked up a Nikon 995 to complement my Canon S110, but I'm not in a position to recommend it quite yet. First I have to figure out how to use the quirky old thing .--Uncle Frank, Canon S110 & Nikon CP995 http://www.http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/root