J
Jam
Guest
If I'm using a lightsphere is there any advantage to using a flash bracket?
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Greg Knapp
Leading Member
I have a lightshpere II both the clear and the cloud + all the different domes. When shooting landscape orientation I noticed for close ups (less then 5 ft. I get dark shadows as if I just "bounced" the flash but if I go portrait at the same difference I get beautiful light very even. I think it has to do with the extra height the landscape gives on the 580. The light is coming from like 10 inches over the camera in landscape but when in portrait its only a couple inches above and a few inches to the side.
I do know once I started using it, I can not live without it. Curse your Mr. Fong! hehe Actually its about the best bang for the buck I have spent photographic equipment wise (in close second is the 42inch white/gold reflector i bought for $40)
--
-Greg
http://www.gregknapp.net/
Equipment in Profile
Geek:
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary and those that dont.
I do know once I started using it, I can not live without it. Curse your Mr. Fong! hehe Actually its about the best bang for the buck I have spent photographic equipment wise (in close second is the 42inch white/gold reflector i bought for $40)
--
-Greg
http://www.gregknapp.net/
Equipment in Profile
Geek:
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary and those that dont.
Chuck Gardner
Forum Pro
Only if you throw away the LS after attaching it...
See http://super.nova.org/DPR/Design/ to understand the cause and effect of direction and diffusion.
CG
So this thing costs $50 and you get dark shadows using it with close-up shots in landscape orientation, and it's design creates a massive waste of light (spreads the light 360-degrees but your camera doesn't shoot 360 photos) meaning the strobe battery life is shorter with it. And this is the best bang for your buck?
Why oh why did I make myself one of those $5 fun foam deals when I could have spent ten times as much for something that is about half as efficient?
--
Pete Springer
http://www.petespringer.com
Why oh why did I make myself one of those $5 fun foam deals when I could have spent ten times as much for something that is about half as efficient?
--
Pete Springer
http://www.petespringer.com
The LS, and any other product that says its can be used in the vertical orientation simply trades one problem for another.
Yes sometimes in landscape shots you do get some bad shadows under the neckline due to the flashhead being to high. You do want to get the flash up higher but theres a practical limit before you start getting the problems you mentioned.
The LS with the camera vertical though gives an equally (worse if you ask me) sideshow though. Why ? Because its about 5 inches to camera left. Height wise its still above the lens, which is good but its not centered over the lens.
Gary Fong can't change physics. Nor can anyone else. Twisting and rotating the head like the LS, Flip-It etc do for verticals does improve results but they still leave much to be desired.
A side shadow is a side shadows regardless of how diffused the edges may be, and honestly with the LS near the wall they still wont be that soft unless you've got a low ceiling for bounce.
Again simple physics, the thing only enlarges the relative size of the flashsource by a small amount unless you can use a ceiling to make a huge change and get most of your fill.
You'd be far better off getting rid of the thing or selling it.
Get yourself a bracket that keeps the flash over the lens axis, ideally a camera rotator style because those flip brackets are a pain in when it comes to trying to bounce side your flash in on its side. Just a dumb concept. Flashes aren't meant to work on their sides, they are meant to be mounted with the hotshoe facing downwards.
Add yourself a better bounce card type concept so you can throw some light forward and some for ceiling bounce. You can make your own for a few bucks. Chuck has instructions on his site for a nice varation.
Wont matter if your shooting horizontal or vertical that way, your fill and bounce will always be constant. No need to mess with the swing arm on the bracket, twist the flashhead, etc
Only "bang for the buck" that the LS reall is good for is the 5000% market and profit that Gary Fong makes of the thing.
I mean really, a tuperware bowl with a poorly fitting lid that falls off all the time is not $50. I got a 5 pack of gladware for $2.99.
Yes sometimes in landscape shots you do get some bad shadows under the neckline due to the flashhead being to high. You do want to get the flash up higher but theres a practical limit before you start getting the problems you mentioned.
The LS with the camera vertical though gives an equally (worse if you ask me) sideshow though. Why ? Because its about 5 inches to camera left. Height wise its still above the lens, which is good but its not centered over the lens.
Gary Fong can't change physics. Nor can anyone else. Twisting and rotating the head like the LS, Flip-It etc do for verticals does improve results but they still leave much to be desired.
A side shadow is a side shadows regardless of how diffused the edges may be, and honestly with the LS near the wall they still wont be that soft unless you've got a low ceiling for bounce.
Again simple physics, the thing only enlarges the relative size of the flashsource by a small amount unless you can use a ceiling to make a huge change and get most of your fill.
You'd be far better off getting rid of the thing or selling it.
Get yourself a bracket that keeps the flash over the lens axis, ideally a camera rotator style because those flip brackets are a pain in when it comes to trying to bounce side your flash in on its side. Just a dumb concept. Flashes aren't meant to work on their sides, they are meant to be mounted with the hotshoe facing downwards.
Add yourself a better bounce card type concept so you can throw some light forward and some for ceiling bounce. You can make your own for a few bucks. Chuck has instructions on his site for a nice varation.
Wont matter if your shooting horizontal or vertical that way, your fill and bounce will always be constant. No need to mess with the swing arm on the bracket, twist the flashhead, etc
Only "bang for the buck" that the LS reall is good for is the 5000% market and profit that Gary Fong makes of the thing.
I mean really, a tuperware bowl with a poorly fitting lid that falls off all the time is not $50. I got a 5 pack of gladware for $2.99.
J
Jam
Guest
WOW - why can't anyone just answer the original question.
Is there an advantage to using a flash bracket WITH the LS.
I've used the LS and I am happy with the performance
I was just wondering if a Flash Bracket would increase the already GOOD performance of the LS.
I know some are pointing out the flaws of the unit -- Please do that on another discussion - I've already bought the unit and am going to continue using it.
Is there an advantage to using a flash bracket WITH the LS.
I've used the LS and I am happy with the performance
I was just wondering if a Flash Bracket would increase the already GOOD performance of the LS.
I know some are pointing out the flaws of the unit -- Please do that on another discussion - I've already bought the unit and am going to continue using it.
You don't care about the opinions anyone else has given on the LS, yet your still seeking peoples opinions on the LS and your upset no one has told you waht you must want to hear ?
If a product has far more disadvantages than advantages, wouldn't it be rather foolish to not mention them ?
You asked your question because you want to improve your results I'm guessing right ?
Well then instead of complaining about the advice given, perhaps read it with an open mind and realize that people took the time to help you do just that. If you like your LS, then you'll love some of the better, cheaper, and more flexible options mentioned.
If a product has far more disadvantages than advantages, wouldn't it be rather foolish to not mention them ?
You asked your question because you want to improve your results I'm guessing right ?
Well then instead of complaining about the advice given, perhaps read it with an open mind and realize that people took the time to help you do just that. If you like your LS, then you'll love some of the better, cheaper, and more flexible options mentioned.
photolando
Senior Member
Well, if you do get the flash a little higher it will help getting any shadows you may get behind your subject more. And your light will be a little more constant. However I have not used a bracket since I got mine and probably never will. The less I have to carry, the easier I can move around.
Realize most in here are not real world pros. I know a lot of wedding pros and you can bet just about everyone of them has a LS of some sort. The LS is a great design. It works as it says and "looks" professional. I have never heard any pro tell me it was a waste of money. AND I can use in portrait or landscape positions and get pretty much the same light. Most DYI's I've seen on here can not do that without a bracket. I also think my time can be better spent then trying to make something that won't work or look any better.
No on-flash diffuser is going to work wonders. The distance from your subjects, the size of the room, the color of the room, etc. They will all have a factor on your diffuser. DYI or LS.
I love my LS. I use it at every wedding. Wow. It cost me a whole $60 or so. Actually, I have learned a lot of great stuff from Gary Fong.
Mike
--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'
Realize most in here are not real world pros. I know a lot of wedding pros and you can bet just about everyone of them has a LS of some sort. The LS is a great design. It works as it says and "looks" professional. I have never heard any pro tell me it was a waste of money. AND I can use in portrait or landscape positions and get pretty much the same light. Most DYI's I've seen on here can not do that without a bracket. I also think my time can be better spent then trying to make something that won't work or look any better.
No on-flash diffuser is going to work wonders. The distance from your subjects, the size of the room, the color of the room, etc. They will all have a factor on your diffuser. DYI or LS.
I love my LS. I use it at every wedding. Wow. It cost me a whole $60 or so. Actually, I have learned a lot of great stuff from Gary Fong.
Mike
--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'
Greg Knapp
Leading Member
Yup. I am very happy with it. Its a tool like anything else once your used to its one flaw (the landscape closeup). You learn how to adjust for it. I can still take a landscape closeup of someone and not get shadows, all I need to do is position the head slightly different.
As for your 360 degree comment well I hope you never aim your flash up and bounce at all. Because last time I checked you dont have a 90degree lens. The fact that it throws light behind me is a good thing because that light bounces back most of the time and creates more ambient light.
Fong designed the LS to make light look more natural coming off a flash. It does as advertised.
I get good battery life, I carry 2 sets of 2300mAh's on me and have 3 sets of alkalines as backup. I have never needed to dip into the regular batteries yet. And I shoot anywhere from 400 to 700 photos in a night. (im thinking of picking up a quantum pack though)
I dont know, I am a DIY'r myself too.. Ive made softboxes from old pepsi cartons and some parchment paper, painted it black and all. Still would not show up to a paid gig with it though.
--
-Greg
http://www.gregknapp.net/
Equipment in Profile
Geek:
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary and those that dont.
photolando
Senior Member
I agree. I mean if it's a tool you use all the time, and only around $60 or so, I would say it is a great bang for the buck. I have lenses I spent a lot more money on that I don't use all the time. But I use my LS at every wedding. And lately thats about every weekend.
Mike
--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'
Mike
--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'
Greg Knapp
Leading Member
Good post, explaining the way light is thrown off the LS. Depending on the room you can also get fill from bounce too since the LS throws light all over.
The 580EX is designed to work off the hotshoe if I move it I will also move the AF assist beam no? This could cause a problem because I focus in low light, even with my 1.8 or 2.8 lenses.
I know I sound like a commercial for the LS, I have no ties to Gary Fong or his companies. I am however a happy customer, who has made back well more then the little $50 investment. In fact I used profits from the $50 clear LS to buy the $80 cloud version with 3 domes.
To each his own I guess.
And I apologise to the Original Poster, I know I didnt answer your question, I dont have a need for a bracket. My camera is heavy enough
--
-Greg
http://www.gregknapp.net/
Equipment in Profile
Geek:
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary and those that dont.
I make money with it, people are happy with my photos and its lighter then most brackets.
I use a Canon 5D and a 580EX..
The 580EX is designed to work off the hotshoe if I move it I will also move the AF assist beam no? This could cause a problem because I focus in low light, even with my 1.8 or 2.8 lenses.
When I need more forward and some ceiling bounce I put on the chrome dome which has a hole in the top and also a silver kicker to throw more forward.
I dont really care if it cost Mr. Fong $.02 to make and he sells it for $100. He had an idea, it worked , he marketed it. People that use it love it. why do so many people have a problem with that?
In the last 6 months shooting 1 to 3 events per week I have had the top pop off of my lightsphere... twice! and both times it was because I secured it wrong. Hardly sounds like all the time to me.
I know I sound like a commercial for the LS, I have no ties to Gary Fong or his companies. I am however a happy customer, who has made back well more then the little $50 investment. In fact I used profits from the $50 clear LS to buy the $80 cloud version with 3 domes.
To each his own I guess.
And I apologise to the Original Poster, I know I didnt answer your question, I dont have a need for a bracket. My camera is heavy enough
--
-Greg
http://www.gregknapp.net/
Equipment in Profile
Geek:
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary and those that dont.
J
Jam
Guest
You continue to reply with answers that don't reflect the question.
I asked about using two devices together -- you keep answering with, ditch one and use the other..
How does that answer my question.
I asked about using two devices together -- you keep answering with, ditch one and use the other..
How does that answer my question.
J
Jam
Guest
the last message was directed at Millsart....
Damkader
Senior Member
Don't like using a bracket much as it is too cumbersome. But have used the bracket with LS and preferred the results for vertical shooting.
One minor inconvenience when using a bracket with the with 580, not sure about other flashes, the Flash has to be turned turned 270 degrees NOT just 90 degrees. Because of this the bounce lock release button is now in the front (lens side) and a little bit more difficult to flip as a result.
--
Jay
http://www.pbase.com/damkader
Equipment in Profile
One minor inconvenience when using a bracket with the with 580, not sure about other flashes, the Flash has to be turned turned 270 degrees NOT just 90 degrees. Because of this the bounce lock release button is now in the front (lens side) and a little bit more difficult to flip as a result.
--
Jay
http://www.pbase.com/damkader
Equipment in Profile
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
If you absolutely want to avoid side shadows, you need to use a flash bracket even if you are using a good diffuser. However, when you use a good diffuser like the LS, the shadows will not be as harsh even if you don't use a bracket. But you will not be able to avoid it altogether.
--
Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
--
Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
DGates
Well-known member
You could try the FongWinkle. It helps bring more light in the side areas.
Interesting site:
http://www.garyfongstoupee.com
=]
Interesting site:
http://www.garyfongstoupee.com
=]
It is just amazing to me how some of you call yourself pros and don't see need for a bracket. I have done seven wedding this year already and can't image not using a bracket. I used Gary Fong lightsphere once and never touched it again.
oldphotoguy
Forum Enthusiast
To Jam,
To answer your question directly. NO! there is NO advantage in using/not using the Lightsphere and a bracket. Why do you ask a question like that? You made your decision based upon what Gary has convinced you (and thousands of others) than the LS "replaces" a bracket.
ERRR! NOT!
So, the next time you want to use (for example) a transmitter or radio slave, drill a hole in the LS and hook it there.
There are dozens of reasons to use a bracket!
To answer your question directly. NO! there is NO advantage in using/not using the Lightsphere and a bracket. Why do you ask a question like that? You made your decision based upon what Gary has convinced you (and thousands of others) than the LS "replaces" a bracket.
ERRR! NOT!
So, the next time you want to use (for example) a transmitter or radio slave, drill a hole in the LS and hook it there.
There are dozens of reasons to use a bracket!
Two photos, one shot with a bracket, one without. Can you tell which one used a bracket?
BTW: I did not use the GF LS on either. I used the DIY fun foam.
I posted portrait orientation photos on purpose. In my experience, it's possible to use the fun foam on a pivoted flash in portrait orientation-- just like a when you swing a bracket to portrait orientation.
Anyway, the answer is: the second photo doesn't use a bracket. The first photo does. To be honest, I'm still not convinced a bracket makes a difference -- when using the fun foam. And... I actually find a bracket and bare strobe when using a 70-200 lens creates red eye, but with the fun foam and no bracket with the same lens, I don't get red eye.
Soooo... I would suggest some of it depends on the lens you are using. At least with the fun foam. Results may vary with the GS LS.
--
Pete Springer
http://www.petespringer.com
BTW: I did not use the GF LS on either. I used the DIY fun foam.
I posted portrait orientation photos on purpose. In my experience, it's possible to use the fun foam on a pivoted flash in portrait orientation-- just like a when you swing a bracket to portrait orientation.
Anyway, the answer is: the second photo doesn't use a bracket. The first photo does. To be honest, I'm still not convinced a bracket makes a difference -- when using the fun foam. And... I actually find a bracket and bare strobe when using a 70-200 lens creates red eye, but with the fun foam and no bracket with the same lens, I don't get red eye.
Soooo... I would suggest some of it depends on the lens you are using. At least with the fun foam. Results may vary with the GS LS.
--
Pete Springer
http://www.petespringer.com
Your shooting a fashion show in a large open area. Its not going to matter if you've got a bracket or not.
I've never seen a wedding held on a runway stage though I'm sure its been done. Point is its a very poor example for this discussion. Not a poor shot but simply not one that applies.
Try shooting some shots of the bridge getting ready in an average sized chaning room and you'll notice quite the problem with side shadows from lack of a bracket.
A brackets a specific tool for certain shooting conditions, such as a wedding, and in that role its a definate must have in my mind.
I've never seen a wedding held on a runway stage though I'm sure its been done. Point is its a very poor example for this discussion. Not a poor shot but simply not one that applies.
Try shooting some shots of the bridge getting ready in an average sized chaning room and you'll notice quite the problem with side shadows from lack of a bracket.
A brackets a specific tool for certain shooting conditions, such as a wedding, and in that role its a definate must have in my mind.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum