5 Vs 5

The WING GANG said:

Thanks for summing up the focus issue Robert. Perhaps Andy didn't realise the images are 100% crops.

Click to expand...

they are out of focus, most especially the first one. and as someone else pointed out in this thread, the photo with the sunglasses appears to be a duplicate of a photo comparison done months ago.

and it's a well-known fact that Photoshop, esp CS2 doesnt fully support the S5 RAF file. and providing the EXIF info doesnt expel any post-processing that occurred.

please provide RAW files for true analysis.

regards, michael

Ok if price is not a main consideration then look at the digital medium format or even the 1DsMkII

You have to consider a price point as this is where the companies see the camera. If not compare the 1ds MkII to the D-rebel??

It is a focusing error, or a dodgy camera, my fujis are way sharper than that. Agreeably not 12mp of detail that the 5d has, but its sensor is totally different.

If you are not considering other things look at....

Low light focus is terrible with the Canon 5d compared to the Fuji. The Fuji is a better body fact.

Hmm try the 5D.....

I did two of them and lenses, flashguns etc, sold all of my Nikon gear to get them, regretted it no end, so changed back to a Nikon/Fuji system and I am loving it.

Andy

--
Mark Abraham
Now and Forever Photogaphy
Portraiture and Fine Art Photography
WEBSITE: http://www.nafphotography.com
EMAIL: [email protected]
http://radphotos.net Its cool, Its Fun!

The big problem I see with this comparison is the lenses. I think there's enough of a difference between the lenses used to account for much, if not all, of the clearly better 5D photos here.

Add to that that Photoshop's RAW conversion of S5 files is not fully mature, and the fact that we haven't seen exactly where the full-size images (not the crops) were focused, and I think you can see why people are saying this comparison isn't a very good one upon which to base an expensive decision.

Anthony

Robert Whiteman said:

AndrewScott said:

WING GANG

Your Fuji shots are out of focus,

Click to expand...

What makes you say they're out of focus? The softness of the Fuji's
ability to render only so much detail ? Do this yourself and see
just how much sharp detail there is at 100% with fine detail.

It looks focused to me, just doesn't have the resolution to show it
more clearly. I see it in my Fuji images all the time.

Robert Whiteman said:

There is lots to consider when comparing these cameras, price being
the biggest.

Click to expand...

While price might be YOUR biggest consideration, for many of us it
is not. The price of lower resolution comes into play if you want
certain stock agencies to consider your work. Many of them don't
accept the Fuji version of "12" megapixels but the 5D they have no
problem with. Are they completely uninformed?

I did this same test at least a year ago and have a 5D arriviing in
3 days due to my testing. (yes, it's been a long wait) The S2 (or
S3/S5) are great cameras for many things, but there are better
solutions to more resolution and/or less noise. It's just a
different tool for the same job. While the Fuji's have their
limits, the 5D also has it's limiits. Nothing will work best at all
things, so different tools are needed for different purposes.

Have you tried a 5D at all? Give one an honest look and if it's not
for you don't get one. I know others who are quite content with
their S5's and they don't require the differences of something like
the 5D or D2x.

As long as your happy with what you have you'll at least save the
cost of switching.

Robert

Click to expand...

--
check out my blog at http://anthonyonphotography.blogspot.com

AndrewScott said:

Hmm try the 5D.....
I did two of them and lenses, flashguns etc, sold all of my Nikon
gear to get them, regretted it no end, so changed back to a
Nikon/Fuji system and I am loving it.

Click to expand...

Well Andy I may be back with my tail between my legs in a few months because I really love Fuji colour and my biggest concern with the 5D is being able to replicate that.

FWIW, seems like different people have different ways and meanings for 100% crop. I also think subject matter has a lot to do with perceived sharpness. Then again it wouldn't surprise me at all if my 12-24 isn't focusing correctly, had it for a few years and dropped it a few times but still manage to get covers with it.

Anyway, this unsharpened image will give some idea of how much was cropped to get the first one I posted:



btw, for those suspicious chaps who referred to some earlier image with sunglasses, there's the rack on the right
--
http://www.winggang.com/gallery/folio
'think for yourself; question authority'

The crops I posted says a lot about both resolution and DR with their rightful owners claiming victory in each. It is what it is and each servers it purpose and is a great camera. Of all of them I own, these 2 are the ones I use most now.

--
Mark Abraham
Now and Forever Photogaphy
Portraiture and Fine Art Photography
WEBSITE: http://www.nafphotography.com
EMAIL: [email protected]
http://radphotos.net Its cool, Its Fun!

--
Mark Abraham
Now and Forever Photogaphy
Portraiture and Fine Art Photography
WEBSITE: http://www.nafphotography.com
EMAIL: [email protected]
http://radphotos.net Its cool, Its Fun!

They all look more than capable in these samples, but you can see the greater resolution of the 5D, especially compared to the Fuji. When you push the size of output beyone 200% the difference is even more apparent.

Then there's the whole thing with DOF in confined spaces. Shooting the same scene with a longer focal length makes some subjects easier to manage.

Robert

AndrewScott said:

Ok if price is not a main consideration then look at the digital
medium format or even the 1DsMkII

Click to expand...

The 1Ds II does not have the advantage over the 5D that it's price might suggest. It's more for those who will need more rugged equipment for their particular subject matter. The 5D will match the look and resolution of the 1Ds II for those who don't need weather sealing, and all the other attributes of a series 1 body. Also, there are many who, after shooting both, prefer the files from the 5D for many reasons. I spoke with one last fall while shooting back east. We were side-by-side at one of the lighthouses on the Cape and started talking. He had used nikons, fujis, the 1Ds II and others. His favorite was the 5D which he was shooting with at that time. We talked for awhile and his reasoning was sound and he seemed as intelligent and non-biased as anyone I've met. Not a fanboy, just a sincere user who wanted the best image he felt he could get.

As for MF digital, I'm headed that way, but the cost, while not the main consideration, is still prohibitive at this time. But I'm much closer than before.

AndrewScott said:

Hmm try the 5D.....
I did two of them and lenses, flashguns etc, sold all of my Nikon
gear to get them, regretted it no end, so changed back to a
Nikon/Fuji system and I am loving it.

Click to expand...

Good. I glad you have equipment that serves your needs. Not everone is wanting the same things or we'd all have the same cameras.

Robert

Don't know if others, like me, are reading these forums as we contemplate our first pro-level DSLR, but tests aside, if you look at Andy's postings in other threads (not just the eagle, which is fine) he is an amazingly good photographer (and not an uncritical booster of the S5 by the way). I know it's not possible to know what a print, particularly a large print, will look like by viewing an image on the web, but if you look at what he has shot with an S5 you might think twice about spending the money for the 5D, or if money is not a factor, you may thiink twice if you simply subjectively like something about the Fuji/Nikon image, feel, or system compared to that of Canon. I for one would need to learn a whole hell of a lot to have the S5 limit me, at which point I'll look around at the then available digital technology or, at that time, move to medium format film and a good medium-format scanner, which, by the way, at current prices, are combined not much more than the 5D body, if money does matter, at least a little, as it does to me.

[snip]

Robert Whiteman said:

As for MF digital, I'm headed that way, but the cost, while not the
main consideration, is still prohibitive at this time. But I'm much
closer than before.

Click to expand...

[snip]

http://www.mamiya.com/cameras.asp?id=1&id2=2281

Mamiya now has the 645AFD II (w/lens and dig back) for under 10k USD. heck, you could start out with the 645/80 2.8 lens and film back for $3999 USD:
http://www.adorama.com/MY645AFDIIP.html?searchinfo=mamiya&item_no=1

... and add the digital back later. you could get the ZD, but if you're in the US, you'll have to get it from a Canadian shop (etc). (it's also more $$$)

regards, michael

Lobalobo said:

Don't know if others, like me, are reading these forums as we
contemplate our first pro-level DSLR, but tests aside, if you look
at Andy's postings in other threads (not just the eagle, which is
fine) he is an amazingly good photographer
you might think twice about spending the money for the 5D,

Click to expand...

I've compared the cropped Fuji CCD to the 5D, it's not even close enough to consider IMO. I'm not just talking about color, DR or the number of real pixels, it's the format: FF vs APS which is one of the main reasons. Grab a pair and see for yourself. The difference is not just imagined. Also, in regards to pixels, the 5D out resolves the Fuji. I've done the side-by-side and posted it here at least a year ago if not longer. You can almost if not double the output size with the same quality of detial.

I was hoping nikon or fuji would go FF but they don't seem interested at this time. But that's ok now.

This is not about someones ability to take good photos or about their opinion vs mine. I've made up my mind based on my own findings.

Lobalobo said:

I for one would need to learn a
whole hell of a lot to have the S5 limit me, at which point I'll
look around at the then available digital technology

Click to expand...

Then you'll be where I am. I feel limited with 6 MP and a half-frame. I feel limited by Nikon's noise levels and particular colors. My preferences differ but that's all. I know of several who love and use those same fujis and nikons. They do very nice work with them.

I plan to do nice work with the 5D.

Robert

Robert Whiteman said:

They all look more than capable in these samples, but you can see
the greater resolution of the 5D, especially compared to the Fuji.

Click to expand...

The DSLR with the best resolution I have used so far is the D2x, it has excellent pixel sharpness, better also than the 5d, but it is DR and noise- limited, it is a bit too heavy and it also was a bit too expensive for me.

Bernie

That pixel sharpness falls off real quick after ISO 200. And the short focal lengths required limit my purposes. Not a contender.

Robert

Agreed. I own neither of these cameras so I have no bias. This has got to be one of the worst tests of two cameras I have ever seen.

If you don't believe my samples, just go look at the 5D review, you'll see the 5D wins hands down. See my other post, comparisons seldom done.

--
Mark Abraham
Now and Forever Photogaphy
Portraiture and Fine Art Photography
WEBSITE: http://www.nafphotography.com
EMAIL: [email protected]
http://radphotos.net Its cool, Its Fun!

Hi Mark, thanks for posting these* (and all other you share and will share with us ^^)

I'm not so sure 5D outperform D2X.If we will use a USM to the D2X file become more sharp than 5D shot.

Concerning the 5D crop..

Maybe is my monitor.. But i see it overexposed.And a little underexposed S5 and D2X file.

With regards.
Uru

=100% crops..
--



's User.

'Nothing is worse than be incapable.Except be incapable and unconscious.' Dr.House ©

I have to agree, this seems a bit like a 'stacked' test.

I've followed the Fuji S5 since before its release, as I expect to upgrade my D80 once the S5 price drops to (hopefully) $1600-ish street. I shoot with several peeps that use the 5D, and find it crisp, but lacking that 'pop' of DR the S5 offers.

To be fair to both; this is really not an 'apples' test. Truly, they are each very different animals and each excels at what it it meant for.

This thread w/ samples sells the S5 as much as any other images I've still seen to date:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=22177535

Cheers.
David
my flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/prodesma/

Having just looked at hundreds of samples for each camera and having merely tested each of them (owning neither, yet), I know I lack your expertise and experience. My only point wasis similar to the one made by others: it is possible to get truly outstanding images with the S5, something easily overlooked if one focuses (no pun intended) on the unquestioned resolution superiority of the 5D.

This thread proves how subjective choosing a camera is. When comparing features you think are very important you are already not objective anymore because you personally chose what features needed to be tested.

I know a 5D has higher resolution and a S5 isn't that powerful. However for some people ergonomics might come into play, some people will love the S5 for how it 'feels' to the hands, to those people THAT might be the most important reason to buy a camera that only slightly lacks in certain department (but excels in many).

I have been looking for a good dslr for years, my friends know that and they ask me what they should buy, I all tell them to find that out for themselves. Everybody uses his/her camera in a totally different way! One of those friends bought a D40x, not my cup of tea because I need the S5 for it's dynamic range in the raw files and Fuji Colors. He loves it to death though and I can see why. I would have never recommended that camera to anyone, only now I see it is a perfect fit for him, for his personality, way of shooting and needs. He does not like carrying around huge camera bags, finds the 10 MP more than enough and is very happy with the ergonomics.

This thread proves that perhaps a S5 is not the best choice for Print and the 5D might be a better choice. That is just one of the hundreds of reasons why you would want a certain camera.

Anyway, thanks for the samples posted here!