Sony Alpha versus the Nikon D80,which is best?

Barry..I couldnt agree more, that meter drove me absoloutly crazy....its next to useless...I couldnt even get used to compensating , as it was so inconsistent

All other aspects of the cam were fine...but for me, that meter totally ruined an otherwise great cam

Member said:

It has a very iffy light meter which likely will drive you nuts
with constant overexposure.......

On the last one alone.......its a deal breaker for me..which is a
shame really as in other areas its very good.

I hate iffy metering..with a passion.
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

psn said:

Dayo said:

You are shooting for payment and the bottom line is that while the
Sony system has the potential to deliver, the big two already have
what you need. You can take a chance on the potential or you can
go for what is there and ready.

Click to expand...

That's just a stupid reply. What is it about the Nikon that a Sony
can't do? The bottom line is that they both can capture images.
It's up to the photographer to take the photo he/she wants.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't respond to the stupid part of your reply because I wasn't brought up to insult people just because I disagree with a recommendation they make on a product.

psn said:

What exactly are you talking about? The Sony A100 is already here,
just as the Nikon D80 is. If anything, this guy already have
Minolta lenses, why go with another system?

Click to expand...

I take it you didn't bother to read the part were I wrote that since he had Minolta lenses, he may be better off sticking with Sony before rushing to type your hateful reply.

As to what exactly I was writing about, I suppose it wasn't clear enough. It is the system. The big boys have a system in place and that is what it is all about. For a commercial shooter, the issue is not one individual body or the other but the system.

Think Rentals, Pocket Wizards, PC Syncs, Tethered Shooting etc etc etc and perhaps you might understand where I was coming from. That is not to say one can't operate with other systems commercially as I tooks the pain to point (you missed that part as well) out but the fact is that one's competitors are not working around stuff and you need as much of an edge as possible.

For you, I will suggest you try a little bit of civility in future posts. Makes you look less of what some might describe as a plonker.

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC

I get what you mean about whats in place right now...the Nikon flash system is superb, as is the vast range of accessories for Nikons....I just dont like the D80 body...but I agree the SYSTEM is impressive
--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

kodakuser said:

My experience was that the Matrix metering exposure, on the Nikon
D80 means that you are taking a considerable risk with that camera
unless you spot metering or Matrix metering...the metering on the
Alpha...which is a huge element in getting a useable result...is
far far far more predictable than that strange quirky matrix
metering on the D80

Click to expand...

You did have problems with your D80 and have been showing some great work with your Alpha. The OP however seems to have been impressed with what he got out of the D80 so perhaps his experience may be different to yours and I reminded him that it would not be a good idea to make a decision based on one shoot with his mate's camera.

kodakuser said:

Shame because everything else about the camera is great...but I
certainly dont agree that you are taking a bigger risk with the
A100...I trust the A100 to deliver a well exposed image far more
reliably than the D80
Other Nikons...like the D200/D50 and D70 are fine...but MM on the
80 requires at least -0.7 ev compensation in most conditions...and
even that is not a reliable rule, check out http://www.kenrockwell.com
(D80 user guide)...or do a search on the Nikon forum for D80
metering overexposure

Click to expand...

He is looking to shoot for a living and the critical thing is the system. Sony is putting a system together and presumably they will deliver a pro spec system. However they MAY not do. Some others already have a system in place. My advice was for the OP to go for the established system bearing the fact that he already has some A mount lenses in mind however.

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC

I understand your point, and I accept it is valid...if we are talking about a system as a whole

Sony may/may not develop a system to rival the Nikon ensemble....I am expecting them to do so...but nobody knows for sure, thats true
--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

Dayo said:

"Barry and his sidekick, Ken, have been running up and down the board angrily"...

Click to expand...

To wound people that you can make it.

I hope that you regard yourselves as an adult ... and BTW that you try to respect the others.

--
Michel J

You already have KM lenses so its a no brainer get the A100. Both the A100 & D80 will give you very similar IQ.

Now if you didn't have the KM lenses I would recommend buying into the Nikon system, whcih is much more mature & fuller than Sony's. Nikons lenses are also generally much cheaper than Sony's and many have silent-wave (ultrasonic), which gives you almost silent AF and IMHO much better & faster focusing.

I am an A100 owner & I have used the D70, but only handled the D80, but the D80 really impressed me. Its much better built than the A100, fits my hands perfectly, and has a much better viewfinder, but sadly has no SSS, which for me was a deal breaker.

The A100 should do what you want, so take the cheap option & get an A100 body and see how you get on. If you find its not for you then its not the end of the world. In a few months time there could well be new bodies from Sony, Canon & Nikon.

Two Truths said:

Pentax K10D is only a good option if you're shooting RAW only.
JPEGs produced by the camera can tend to lack sharpness and detail.
--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/

Click to expand...

You would have thought so by Phils thorough review.

Except that he forgot that there are two distinct Jpeg modes as listed in the Manual. Bright and Natural. Natural being the default!.

The K100D got unanimous praise for its Jpeg process because its default is Bright.

the manual which was not read says more contrasty sharpened and saturated image are found with the bright mode.
So it does produce sharp images with a simple setting change.

Also it has arguably the most untouched image, weather sealing, cheaper lenses, two control wheels and a host of other modes which are nice and unique to the camera.

Nothing wrong there....but you wonder why he posts so much here ;-)

Canon and Nikon both have very comprehensive systems, Sony as of yet does not....it takes time. However what we have so far is good enough for most..even those working in photography.

Nikon have a nice flash system (bar the menu digging wireless).......So does A mount......
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Actually the d80's metering is fine as long as you know what it does, it exposes more for the durrent AF selection in matrix metering. That is all. It's not complicated.

Also have you seen the review of the A100 on this site?? IT's mentioned that the A100 has tendency to underexpose sporadically.

I went with the D80 because the A100 feels like a toy, and felt (to me) very cheaply built with a plasticy feel to it.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Very good, nice camera, good VF, decent AF, good range of features.
You will like it a lot. Better at high ISO too....and low light

But.......

Its got no AS/SSS which is a real boon
It costs a fair bit more
It has a very iffy light meter which likely will drive you nuts
with constant overexposure.......

On the last one alone.......its a deal breaker for me..which is a
shame really as in other areas its very good.

I hate iffy metering..with a passion.
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

--
Gethin Lane
----------------
Nikon D 8 0

Gethin said:

Actually the d80's metering is fine as long as you know what it
does, it exposes more for the durrent AF selection in matrix
metering. That is all. It's not complicated.

Click to expand...

I do know what it does! You are talking to "Mr Metering" I wrote the wiki article on metering modes...most of it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metering_mode

Gethin said:

Also have you seen the review of the A100 on this site?? IT's
mentioned that the A100 has tendency to underexpose sporadically.

Click to expand...

That is true.......to a point..though as they say better under than over......

Gethin said:

I went with the D80 because the A100 feels like a toy, and felt (to
me) very cheaply built with a plasticy feel to it.

Click to expand...

Um ok, you wont win pals here.....

If I say the D80's metering isnt much cop, and Ken "I love nikon" Rockewell does too.........and just about most D80 users on the Nikon forum.......that means it sucks! Deal with it!
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Gethin said:

Actually the d80's metering is fine as long as you know what it
does, it exposes more for the durrent AF selection in matrix
metering. That is all. It's not complicated.

Click to expand...

I do know what it does! You are talking to "Mr Metering" I wrote
the wiki article on metering modes...most of it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metering_mode

Member said:

Also have you seen the review of the A100 on this site?? IT's
mentioned that the A100 has tendency to underexpose sporadically.

Click to expand...

That is true.......to a point..though as they say better under than
over......

Click to expand...

True.

Member said:

Member said:

I went with the D80 because the A100 feels like a toy, and felt (to
me) very cheaply built with a plasticy feel to it.

Click to expand...

Um ok, you wont win pals here.....

Click to expand...

Not my plan.

Member said:

If I say the D80's metering isnt much cop, and Ken "I love nikon"
Rockewell does too.........and just about most D80 users on the
Nikon forum.......that means it sucks! Deal with it!

Click to expand...

Actually no it doesn't. It works fine for me, never had a problem with it. As soon as you learn that it meters what is under the active AF you can adjust as required, its quite straight forward. Plus it really sounds like you have some severe brand loyalty going on here.

Member said:

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

--
Gethin Lane
----------------
Nikon D 8 0

Gethin said:

Gethin said:

--

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Considering I dont own a Sony camera.....I would say no I dont have brand issues. As for the D80 I can only go on my own experience. You dont need to tell me that the AF point plays a major part in exposure, I know it does.....the issue with the D80 is for some reason its either not laying a large enough pattern based off of the AF point (and it would appear to be this) and/or its too heavily influenced with the AF point, to the exclusion of backlighting.

In short its almost acting like an iffy "spot meter" at times........this isnt how multi zone metering is meant to work...I expect it to ignore strong backlighting....but even the area in focus, and used for AF is being overexposed by about 2/3 of a stop. I wouldnt expect this to happen as often as it did when I used one.

If the metering cannot even expose correctly on the AF area...then its got some major issues. I suggest its not covering a large enough area.

Ok its possible I got a lemon.....and nikon sorted it out..but dont take my word for it, if Rockwell says its the worst nikon for metering he has ever used (and he LOVES nikon), do a "D80 overexposes" search in the forum........flooded with threads....are they all wrong?

I didnt believe it myself until I got hold of one........most multi zone metering can struggle a tad on wide angle super high contrast shots...hence AF point placement is important...but the D80 I used was unable to nail even the non wide angle shots I tried...

That kinda kills any interest I had in the camera....

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Gethin said:

Member said:

--

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Considering I dont own a Sony camera.....I would say no I dont have
brand issues. As for the D80 I can only go on my own experience.
You dont need to tell me that the AF point plays a major part in
exposure, I know it does.....the issue with the D80 is for some
reason its either not laying a large enough pattern based off of
the AF point (and it would appear to be this) and/or its too
heavily influenced with the AF point, to the exclusion of
backlighting.

In short its almost acting like an iffy "spot meter" at
times........this isnt how multi zone metering is meant to work...I
expect it to ignore strong backlighting....but even the area in
focus, and used for AF is being overexposed by about 2/3 of a stop.
I wouldnt expect this to happen as often as it did when I used one.

If the metering cannot even expose correctly on the AF area...then
its got some major issues. I suggest its not covering a large
enough area.

Ok its possible I got a lemon.....and nikon sorted it out..but dont
take my word for it, if Rockwell says its the worst nikon for
metering he has ever used (and he LOVES nikon), do a "D80
overexposes" search in the forum........flooded with threads....are
they all wrong?

I didnt believe it myself until I got hold of one........most multi
zone metering can struggle a tad on wide angle super high contrast
shots...hence AF point placement is important...but the D80 I used
was unable to nail even the non wide angle shots I tried...

That kinda kills any interest I had in the camera....

Click to expand...

Yes Barry, but just think, at least the camera wouldn't feel cheap and plasticy.
Nikon must be using something in their plastic that no one else is.

Even Phil in his review of the D40, said that the plastic in it had a "more robust and higher quality feel".
Greg

Member said:

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Nothing wrong there....but you wonder why he posts so much here ;-)

Click to expand...

I hope you are not going to banish me. My posting habits are as follows for your understanding.

1) On this site, I mainly post in the KM/Sony board. I do still own a KM 7D and an A2.

2) For Nikon specific stuff. I generally post on http://www.nikoncafe.com . I have always posted on the KM board on this site and never got really into the Nikon board here.

3) For photo images and non gear related stuff, I use http://www.capture360.net . I run the site as a pic feeedback site. Still new and growing at it's own pace. You are welcome to join.

4) I sometimes post on the POPForums but not so much. Used it a lot in the past but have virtually stopped.

Here are some posts that may help you understand my outlook.

1) Thoughts on KM on the Nikon Board http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=23004094

2) Response to an Ex KM user at the Nikon Cafe http://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/showthread.php?p=1298820#post1298820

3) Recommendation to hobbiest to follow the heart in camera choice on this board just a couple or days before this thread started http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=23532379

4) 3) Recommendation to hobbiest to follow the heart in camera choice on POPForums http://forums.popphoto.com/camera/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=101917#M101917

5) My reply to the OP. For mission critical stuff, buy into an established system.

Yes, I feel that the guy wanting to shoot for a living should follow his head and go for the big two at this time (I didn't just say go for Nikon but added "or a Canon"). For the hobbiest, as I wrote in my reply to the OP, it makes no difference.

This is what I believe and while some fanboys will always see shout troll or see fanboyism in what is such a belief, the more mature can see beyond this even if they disagree.

Do I have your permission to maintain my posting habits lol?

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC

I tried two D80s...There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Matrix meter is defective...now that may be something that you are prepared to live with, but I hated the meter

People kept telling me that it exposed for the focus area....eeeeerrrr well isnt that called spot metering ??
I then found that the vast majority of D80 users use spot/or centre weighted

When I first bought the cam, I hiked 20 miles and shot 200 pics, because it was a high contrast situation with water , blue sky, and dark coloured cliffs, the D80 overexposed every single shot, now this just doesnt happen with the A100....now you could say that I didnt know how to use the cam, but I would argue that a decent Matrix Meter should cope with a scene such as that with no user intervention

The advice I recieved from the Nikon forum was dont use Matrix metering....but I like Matrix Metering!!

In other situations I found that the same scene, shot in exactly the same way gave totally different exposures

Even those on the Nikon Forum agree...try posting a thread titled "does the D80 overexpose" LOL

I just cant understand why this has never come up in Pro reviews (other than Ken Rockwell)

Gethin said:

Barry Fitzgerald said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metering_mode

Gethin said:

Also have you seen the review of the A100 on this site?? IT's
mentioned that the A100 has tendency to underexpose sporadically.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Gethin said:

--
Gethin Lane
----------------
Nikon D 8 0

Click to expand...

--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

Greg Beetham said:

Yes Barry, but just think, at least the camera wouldn't feel cheap
and plasticy.

Click to expand...

Does the A-100 feel like that? I always felt it was similar build to the KM5D, and that never felt weak on build...rather the reverse..robust for an entry level SLR. Ever feel the Canon 400D? Plastic is the word.....

Greg Beetham said:

Nikon must be using something in their plastic that no one else is.
Even Phil in his review of the D40, said that the plastic in it had
a "more robust and higher quality feel".

Click to expand...

And you take phils nikon reviews seriously? I don't! D40 isnt even on my last desperation list of cameras.......

D80 is a fine camera..apart from the metering. D200 makes that feel like a toy be honest!

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Dayo said:

5) My reply to the OP. For mission critical stuff, buy into an
established system.

Click to expand...

What is mission critical? Lol

Dayo said:

Yes, I feel that the guy wanting to shoot for a living should
follow his head and go for the big two at this time (I didn't just
say go for Nikon but added "or a Canon"). For the hobbiest, as I
wrote in my reply to the OP, it makes no difference.

Click to expand...

I am not a hobby shooter! Oh well only sometimes......

If I can do with a 5D, then you can use anything! Nobody denies that C&N have complete systems.....and that you have lots of choice..but my advice is that you should go with your instinct...and get what feels right.

I respect Nikon (just about), Canon (never for me..but capable), but never will they grace my camera bag for working photography. Why? Because I dont go with the mainstream.....thats my choice. Nikon do good stuff, but it pales to compare handling to a 7D etc.....out hope is Sony can delivery along this line..to a point. Maybe they wont...

Dayo said:

This is what I believe and while some fanboys will always see shout
troll or see fanboyism in what is such a belief, the more mature
can see beyond this even if they disagree.

Click to expand...

You say what almost everyone else says..stay safe go wtih the big boys..thats solid, but rather boring dont you think?

Dayo said:

Do I have your permission to maintain my posting habits lol?

Click to expand...

Ha..well, just try to calm your nikon love affair a tad, and we will be ok ;-)



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Dayo said:

For you, I will suggest you try a little bit of civility in future
posts. Makes you look less of what some might describe as a
plonker.

Click to expand...

Nice one! Sorry if it insulted you but it I just called it for what it was. You didn't really explain yourself as to why you recommend the Nikon, other than the BIG BOYS are using it... and that's really the stupid part I was talking about.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

If I can do with a 5D, then you can use anything! Nobody denies
that C&N have complete systems.....and that you have lots of
choice..but my advice is that you should go with your
instinct...and get what feels right.

Click to expand...

Fine to go with instinct. As for making do, I am sure Lance Armstrong could have made do with a bike from his local shop, the F1 drivers could make do with last years engine, my office could make do with DOS etc etc etc but they don't for a reason which that when you are in competition, and make no mistake, being a pro shooter means you are in competition, making do just doesn't cut it.

Member said:

I respect Nikon (just about), Canon (never for me..but capable),
but never will they grace my camera bag for working photography.
Why? Because I dont go with the mainstream.....thats my choice.
Nikon do good stuff, but it pales to compare handling to a 7D
etc.....out hope is Sony can delivery along this line..to a point.
Maybe they wont...

Click to expand...

Refusing to "go mainstream" for the pure self satisfaction of that is a sign of rank amatuerism. A true professional in any field has one and only one criteria in choosing a tool. Is this the the best tool that I can afford for the job ? Whether it is mainstream or not just doesn't come into it.

Member said:

Member said:

This is what I believe and while some fanboys will always see shout
troll or see fanboyism in what is such a belief, the more mature
can see beyond this even if they disagree.

Click to expand...

You say what almost everyone else says..stay safe go wtih the big
boys..thats solid, but rather boring dont you think?

Click to expand...

It is rather boring that none of the Premier League teams turn out in wellies for their matches don't you think?

Member said:

Member said:

Do I have your permission to maintain my posting habits lol?

Click to expand...

Ha..well, just try to calm your nikon love affair a tad, and we
will be ok ;-)

Click to expand...

I have no love affair with any system. I will give my opinion as I honestly see it and couldn't give a rats you-know-what about what the fanboys think.

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC