I finallly got smeared H9 pics :-( Not happy! LARGE PICS

Neil MacDonald

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I am over 3000 shots in and finally got some pics I am extremely unhappy about...sorry for the large post, but wanted to share these. Maybe it's been there and I just didn't notice??? Gonna have to go back over my pics and look a bit closer...

Look at the grass in this one:



And this one:



And ths one; the goat doesn't look too good here either:



More grass issues:



And the groundhog looks bad!



And the water here looks like a crayon drawing:



--
Neil MacDonald
NB Canada
http://nrmdisk.smugmug.com/
H2, H9, DH1758 and M3358

Feel free to comment, critique or PP for educational purposes. If you sell my pics, pls send me my share!

 
Neil, I am sorry to hear it. Yours has been one of the stellar performers up to now. I would not be happy either. Any obvious differences in EXIF or conditions?
--
gus
Get what makes you happy...
Anything less makes you less happy!
 
Hi Neil,

FWIW... I seem to feel that all the Iso 200 pics posted on this forum and other sources...have this, or a similar kind of result...especially if its a dull overcast day......just my observation....I have no axe to grind....

--
Cheers

Rik
 
My heart truly goes out to you. I can truthfully say I have taken better pictures with a 6 year old ultrazoom, my old Oly C-700.

Neil, I am not trying to start anything here, the poor quality of those images speaks volumes. I know what it's like to spend a bunch of $$$ and not be happy. I have lenses here that I spent over $1000 on that I seldom use. They have issues. From one photographer to another, I sincerely hope Sony manages to keep it's customers happy.

Here's the part that gets me sick, it can be done right in an affordable digicam. Here's proof. A pic I took with my new 8mP toy, a Fuji F40fd. Just for fun I increased the saturation in-camera.

8mP, ISO 100



And a few full size crops









Please excuse the excessive sharpening. I haven't processed digicam images in a long time. is this as good as what I get from a DSLR? Absolutely not. The full size crops demonstrate that digital look that most digicams exhibit.

The point is that I spent $240 for this little wonder at Costco, and the camera performs as advertised.

Of course my little Fuji only has a 3X zoom.

Any zoom is a compromise. The larger the zoom ratio, the greater the compromise. This is the case with all lenses. A quality lens is optomized for a single focal length. A zoom is manufactured with compromises in mind.

Which explains why a quality zoom costs a fortune.

I do not own a zoom that goes from 40mm (or whatever) out to over 400mm (or whatever). A lens like this is loaded with compromises. For me to go from 40-400 I need three zoom lenses.

So the lens compromise has a bit to do with it. But we have seen stunning images captured with ultrazooms, so it can be done. IMO good bokeh is the first casualty of zoom lenses. Image stabilization also hurts background quality.

Certainly the lens has something to do with it, but only to a point. Compression and NR take a situation that is already loaded with IQ compromises and make it worse.

I sincerely hope Sony resolves this issue. In fact, not just Sony, but all manufacturers who sell cameras with problems like these.

I can't wait to buy a ultrazoom that really cuts the mustard. Honestly, after my little Fuji, I believe that it is possible to make a camera that really cuts it. At 8 X 10, when the little Fuji is shooting in nice light and is in it's comfort zone, I can not tell the difference between the F40 ($240) and a 20D with 17-40L ($2200). So when I go out shooting and the light is there, I'm leaving the DSLR home.

I would love to say the same thing about ultrazooms. If I can shoot an ultrazoom and it compares to a DSLR at 8 X 10, then I'll be leaving the DSLR and heavy lenses at home much more frequently.

I'm sorry for making this a me thing when it's clearly not, but I really want to see you guys happy. I know that you may find that hard to believe, thus the long explanation of what's in it for me .

--
rich
http://www.iceninephotography.com
 
I went back and checked...every pic I took at SIO 200 is the same; my previous shots at ISO 80 and ISO 100 were pretty good (perfect? No, but acceptable).

Not sure what to do...I am still within my 30 day return period (bought the H9 on May 24)...seriously looking at an Olympus EVolt 500 with 2 lenses (only goes to 150mm) but acceptable, plus I still have my H2.

N
--
Neil MacDonald
NB Canada
http://nrmdisk.smugmug.com/
H2, H9, DH1758 and M3358

Feel free to comment, critique or PP for educational purposes. If you sell my pics, pls send me my share!

 
thats the reason i think why i like native zoom and no add on ( telecon).

why do my flower shots look like they do ..........well i just use a small part of the zoom 3x uptill 6x at max ..... i was never happy with the telecon.

expanding the reach of the native zoom is doing harm imho at least thats what i observed.

the closeup and wide angle deliver better pics as i found out during the many shots i made with my H1........ my guess because u stay more within the optical limits.

my 2cnts

--
  • living in harmony with nature and other people ...will create an better world for all * marti58 -2006
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/
 
I completely agree, the use of add on lenses makes good sense for several reasons

1- The native lense of the camera can have a reduced focal length ratio. Less compromise

2- When you're not doing tele or macro the camera stays small

3- When you're doing macro or tele you pop on a conversion lens and get up close, or you get the reach you need, and the quality is usually better.

It's the same thing with audio, to do it right you need a woofer, a mid-range, and a tweeter. Listening through a single speaker doesn't work. Low frequencies need big, well-damped paper, high frequencies don't need big paper, they need to be light, so they can move fast enough to keep up with the signal.

And it's sort of the same thing with zoom range. The design requirements of a wide angle lens and telephoto lens are different. Too much zoom really doesn't work. And the proof is that some ultrazooms work well zoomed out, some work better zoomed in. But they all have problems.

Which takes me back (finally) to your comments. It just makes sense to add a bit more glass to get up close or to reach out and touch your subject.

This may have a cost in terms of convenience, but there really is no such thing as a free lunch. And even if you schlep around tele-conversion and macro add-on lenses, your kit will still be much more compact, and much lighter than a DSLR that can do the same things.

BTW, Flower shots don't usually do much for me, but yours are nicely done.

Cheers
thats the reason i think why i like native zoom and no add on (
telecon).

why do my flower shots look like they do ..........well i just use
a small part of the zoom 3x uptill 6x at max ..... i was never
happy with the telecon.

expanding the reach of the native zoom is doing harm imho at least
thats what i observed.

the closeup and wide angle deliver better pics as i found out
during the many shots i made with my H1........ my guess because u
stay more within the optical limits.

my 2cnts

--
  • living in harmony with nature and other people ...will create an
better world for all * marti58 -2006

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/
--
rich
http://www.iceninephotography.com
 
hey neil... i agree that the images at 100% are very disappointing... it looks, from the exif data, that you were shooting them all at full zoom, wide open

were you using a tele converter? (another post seemed to imply that or perhaps i misread)

one thought regarding the groundhog shot is that at full zoom, wide open, you're going to have very little depth of field and any movement is going to cause some blur... i think the groundhog shot was slow enough that perhaps even the anti shake wasn't able to help and we're seeing a slightly out of focus/motion blur image that's really confusing the image processor...

what is interesting (to me) is that all of these shots look ok at 25% (auto scaled in my browser window when i look at the images straight from smugmug)... i'm wondering if sony made that a part of their calculations?

in any event, the notion that ISO 200 figures into the mix is something for me to think about...

your smugmug gallery is amazing... i don't think we can chalk this up to 'pilot error'

cheers!
robin
--



http://sonovista.smugmug.com - photos
http://www.schnauzerlogic.com - podcast
 
Thanks for the kind words about my gallery...

No converter on these, but you're right, they were all at full zoom or very close. But so are most of my shots (well, the ducks, geese, eagles, foxes etc...yeah I guess that's most of them!) The ISO 200 seems to be the culprit! Gonna do some testing tomorrow in the yard...I am not happy with 25% looking good!

N
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Neil MacDonald
NB Canada
http://nrmdisk.smugmug.com/
H2, H9, DH1758 and M3358

Feel free to comment, critique or PP for educational purposes. If you sell my pics, pls send me my share!

 
Yes Neil those shots are not nice at all and there is definitely something wrong.

I would also just ask why you would use ISO 200 when you can get such a high shutter speed? If you can get 250/sec would it not work better to drop the ISO a bit? That would account for at lease some of the noise.

Something else I have found with my H9 is that when I use spot metering that it can sometimes through out the rest of the shot when there is a small subject or a wide variation in lighting.

--
http://www.pbase.com/reelate2
http://www.pbase.com/relate2
Me flying
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hY8VhR4gI3w

 
..and had forced the ISO up to 200 and forgot to reduce it the next day. Shoulda seen it on the screen but it slipped my mind! But smearing and NR at only ISO 200? Surprised the heck outta me!

N
--
Neil MacDonald
NB Canada
http://nrmdisk.smugmug.com/
H2, H9, DH1758 and M3358

Feel free to comment, critique or PP for educational purposes. If you sell my pics, pls send me my share!

 
Please try also to take same pics on iso 400 . I'm just curious to see if the firmware bug starts on iso 200 or is just related to some iso 200 subrotine ??
--
Nagy
Feel free to critique, pp my pics, post ideas,..etc.
I'm here to learn
 
I am over 3000 shots in and finally got some pics I am extremely
unhappy about...sorry for the large post, but wanted to share
these. Maybe it's been there and I just didn't notice??? Gonna
have to go back over my pics and look a bit closer...
That's unfortunate Neil, and these must be the worst samples yet by far. I don't know if what you're experiencing is only at iso200 but I remember taking a look at a few of your test images from a post about 2 weeks back:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=23360171

From what I recall, some of those samples were iso100 and they definitely exhibited some heavy IQ problems, though not quite to the extent of the ones you're now showing here.
--
Martin ( http://www.jpgmag.com/people/mschf )
Gear: reverse...
 
Thanks Neil, I know how you feel, I spent a whole day in Sydney shooting in VGA mode because I was testing it on the moon the night before. You can imagine my suprise when I downloaded them to my computer when I came home. They looked good on the camera LCD but man I tell you VGA shots on a 20" wide screen LCD looks tiny.

Anyway I suppose we live and learn, at least we weren't getting paid for the shots, now that would have really hurt. :-)
--
http://www.pbase.com/reelate2
http://www.pbase.com/relate2
Me flying
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hY8VhR4gI3w

 
1: You shot at iso 200
2: You shot fine grass
3: You viewed at 100%

Bad combo for the H9. Don't know if you remember, but I did try to point out this water coloring in one of your very first H9 pics you had posted:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=23357346

Sorry you're unhappy, cause I know you were thrilled with the camera, but you were bound to come accross it, eventually.

Unless Sony comes out with some firmware tweaks to mellow out the NR, you should not shoot above ISO 100, and try not to pixel peep. Although, now that you know what to look for, you may notice it more often in some of your downsized images.

BTW, don't buy into any other factor as the cause. It's not the lens. It's not compression. It's not sun spots. It's strictly related to noise reduction, and nothing else.

Good luck.

--
Rooski
FuZi50, Uzi, H-two

' Edit life's big picture, one crop at a time '
 
I haven't commented on H9 anything to this point...but - At first I thought this post was in jest - but unfortunately it's not!!! Neil - you're one of the "good" photogs here and these pics are just scary.

Bad hardware is my guess - software (good or bad) should be exactly the same from camera to camera - and we've seen fine results from some....it's like Sony has moved manufacturing to a deep 3rd world country or something????? I wouldn't settle for less than anything than a full refund or exchange.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/golfgirl/
Sony R1 & H5 - All CC & PP welcome...always learning!


  • Karen
 
Ai, that's not good news... I haven't been looking very close at my own H9 shots, but I've have noticed some same smearing you have with your shots.

Two days a go I filled in a servey from Sonystyle.

There was a possibilty to give some remarks and I thought: "oh well, I will just complain about these problems with the H9, maybe it helps".

Yesterday I had a voicemail message from a lady from sonystyle, she said she filed my complain and she just got feedback from Tokyo and wanted to speak to me about it"
Gee, I was amazed about this call! So soon a respond, from Tokyo!

She hasn't called me back, hope it will be today..
I wonder if it's good or bad news...
I'll let you know

Suzanne
 

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