foveon chip

Here is the simple way to compare foveon and bayer sensors.

Compare by actual number of sensors, for each color.

So, a 6 MPix bayer has 3 MP green, 1.5 MP red and 1.5 MP blue.

A 3 MPix foveon has 3 MP g, 3 MP red, and 3 MP blue.

So, it has equivalent res in green, and twice the res in blue and red.

There is NO way a bayer will do better on black and white images. Any detail, like a sharp edge, below the actual red and blue sensor res, will cause color aliasing. And in the green, (which carries 58% of the luminance & detail information), the bayer is only as good as the half size foveon.

Of course, what I'm really talking about is a-good-3-colors-every-pixel sensor, vs bayer. It also remains to be seen if the foveon is actually a good 3 color sensor...

Don
--Don Erway http://www.pbase.com/derway/kona_underwater_g2

I can hardly wait for Phil to compare these beasts!!!--Best wishes,Zoli

It will be very intersting to see the comparison--Best wishes,Zoli

Glad to see that someone is talking about the Foveon invention here and not the camera bodies.

Nobody in his/her right mind wil ever worry that Sigma is going to be the only camera carrying the Foveon chip. The Sigma is a good testbed but certainly not the camera of choice for the professional. I do not think that in the long run Foveon will stick with Sigma. Fuji is already far ahead by at least using Nikon mounts that together with Canon are really the only two choices for the pro.
Rinus

I think that Sigma will stick with Foveon as long as it makes digital bodies. I agree that Sigma may not be the choice for the pro, but I'm thankful that the chip will be accessible to both pro and amateur alike.

Rinus Borgsteede said:

I do not think that in the long run Foveon will stick
with Sigma. Fuji is already far ahead by at least using Nikon
mounts that together with Canon are really the only two choices for
the pro.
Rinus

Click to expand...

Hi Don,
Iam 100% agree with your explaination! can't wait to see sample images.
Cheers,
George Bui

Don Erway said:

Here is the simple way to compare foveon and bayer sensors.

Compare by actual number of sensors, for each color.

So, a 6 MPix bayer has 3 MP green, 1.5 MP red and 1.5 MP blue.

A 3 MPix foveon has 3 MP g, 3 MP red, and 3 MP blue.

So, it has equivalent res in green, and twice the res in blue and red.

There is NO way a bayer will do better on black and white images.
Any detail, like a sharp edge, below the actual red and blue sensor
res, will cause color aliasing. And in the green, (which carries
58% of the luminance & detail information), the bayer is only as
good as the half size foveon.

Of course, what I'm really talking about is
a-good-3-colors-every-pixel sensor, vs bayer. It also remains to
be seen if the foveon is actually a good 3 color sensor...

Don

--
Don Erway
http://www.pbase.com/derway/kona_underwater_g2

Click to expand...

I think it is even simpler!

Read Phil's review and look at his resolution chart!

Granted this was a Foveon prototype that was 2K x 2K pixels but if you look at the resolution chart, it is superior to the resolution of the Canon D60. Clearly Phil is under certain non-disclosure clauses and that is why he doesn't show a complete resolution chart.

Some may claim that there is some sort of trickery going on here to not disclose problems, I sincerely doubt that. I also doubt that Phil would be so enthusiastic about this technology and the prototype that Foveon gave him if it were not clearly an advancement.

Perhaps you doubting Thomas's should go out and have your portrait shot by any one of the photographers that use the Foveon Studio camera, then perhaps you would understand what it is all about.

As far as the many technical issues discussed, one that I have not see is the lower power requirements of CMOS. This should turn out to be another advantage for Foveon's chip over CCD.

To Ron Parr: I've been watching you fight the good fight here, but clearly there are those that do not fully grasp the issues of interpolation, nor do they understand how this effects the MTF in an image.

John Bower

Zoltan Csuka said:

Just by looking at the physical layout of the sensors what we will
see when comparing it to the 6mp sensors will be as follows (IMO):
1. more resolution and texture with blue, red and anything in
between and around those colors.
2. equal, maybe little less resolution at and around green
3. quite a bit less resolution with white-gray-black spectrum

The above will translate into better looking (texture-rich)
colorful highlights and midtones but slighly less in the lower
midtowns and shadows. The 6mp Bayer will produce better black and
white images (if someone wanted that). The "softness" of Bayer
images is over. What is bothering me with those images (from d1x
and d30 etc.) the sudden drop of resolution (clipping) when red or
blue objects are highlighted.
--
Best wishes,
Zoli

Click to expand...

Rinus Borgsteede said:

Thanks for the good explanation Ron.It only seems to reinforce that
a Foveon type CCD would be the preferred device. I am sorry to say
that the Foveon chip seems to be wasted in this Sigma camera but it
is a good start to show what the Foveon type chip can do. The
market will tell.

Click to expand...

I remember being in grade school in the 60's and Japanese watches were laughed at (most brands) then in high school in the 70's a Seiko was no joke and by the 80's those Honda Civics that were so cute but yet so snubbed - was in the top 3 consistently for it's class of car.

The above is not about Japanese companies, but to point out that Sigma has a great opportunity at working with the next-gen technology in-depth before any of it's competitors and we could easily look up in a few years and Sigma could be a 1st tier player very easily. And remember I pointed out above that the original Civic was not THAT appealing to many US Citizens - so the first crack at a new technology or market direction (above example - to small cars) does not neccesarily have to be perfect.

So even if Sigma were to have chosen to leave out just one too many of the features that competing cameras have to offer, if they handle it well PR-wise they will still have gained experience with technology that appears to be legitimate next-gen.

So as other companies move to the same or similar technology, Sigma, despite having less R&D capital will have forged itself into an equal level as far as having Economies of Scale - and that is what determines what field you play on - Economies of Scale.

So although you could be right in your comment about Sigma - I think some else has said this in these very forums - Sigma has too much to gain from this whole thing to just totally f*> , it up.

Rod
http://www.livingartphotos.com - A Work in Progress - It Lives--Rod