DPREVIEW >> Jumping the Shark w/ D40x

Petteri Sulonen wrote:
Congrats, you win the "ridiculous post of the day" award. (NT)

Thank you for this award...

I would like to thank...
Canon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, for releasing entry level DLSRs with
a full basic feature set.
You would like to thank them, but you can't. Every one of them has flaws, features that some people would like to see that aren't in them. You're just cherry picking the ones you want, to prove your point.
I would of course like to thank my parents
I would like to criticize your parents, for not practicing birth control more adequately.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Ken_5D wrote:

You want crippled? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Oly, Leica, etc. all use
the ISO standard hot shoe. Sony has the proprietary Minolta shoe.
Ahh more lack of real info...

The shoe shape is different.. but all those other shoes have thier own proprietary contacts and protocols so you can't just move one flash to a different brand and expect to so more than manual flash.

( I am sure someone might have a one size fits all flash.. but in most cases you still buy the Nikon vesion or the Canon version of the Sony version.. so the shoe shape means very little except for strawman arguments.

So since I have to buy a special flash for each brand.. why not have a quick snap lock foot vs an old screw down mount..

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
Petteri Sulonen wrote:
Congrats, you win the "ridiculous post of the day" award. (NT)

Thank you for this award...

I would like to thank...
Canon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, for releasing entry level DLSRs with
a full basic feature set.
You would like to thank them, but you can't. Every one of them has
flaws, features that some people would like to see that aren't in
them. You're just cherry picking the ones you want, to prove your
point.
True they all have flaws... but they support all of thier recent and current lense designs.. and they most of thier feature drops can be tracked to at least cost.. not so for auto bracketing.
I would of course like to thank my parents
I would like to criticize your parents, for not practicing birth
control more adequately.
Need I say more about the kind of person you are.... I think not.

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
What customer need did removing bracketing fix:
Cost? its a simple programming trick to take three shots at three
different EVs
Nikon must have thought that there were customers who wanted Nikon
DSLR's at lower price points. I have no doubt they are correct

Regardless of how 'simple' a programming trick braketing is, it
still costs R&D money to implement and test on a new device no
matter how many times they have done it before or on how many
models. So when they were brainstorming how they would save money
it made the list of cuts.

And IMO its no big deal, the D70 is the first (slr) camera I have
ever owned with the feature and I still end up braketing manually
most of the time anyway (when I went to school for photogrpahy they
insisted full manual cameras were a requisite anyway).
Except since we are being told that the D40x and D80 share much of the same engine etc. it is just as likely that they spent money disabling it as it was already written for the D80.

I don't know... but bracking is pretty much Add number, repeat, add number repeat... a very easy feature
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
And we were talking about the "Highly Reccomended" for a camera
that can't even compete all the entry level photograhy class
exercises .. like bracketing... easily.
You can still braket, theres just no Auto-braket mode. Any class
that didn't go through braketing manually in the first place
wouldn't be much of a photography class entry or otherwise.
That is a good point.. as long as you are bracketing static scenes,
no people, no animals, no moving vehicles.. so you can practice..
just can;t use it for a lot of situations.
Honestly I wouldn't recomend bracketing in most of those cases auto or otherwise. I mean you don't usually get 3 or five criticle moments in a row or get the flash to charge for each of 3 shots (sure some will do it but not all). Perhaps the auto bracketing allows you to attempt it, but you are wasting 2 of 3 or 4 of 5 shots. Not to mention being tied into a bracketing sequence when the sot you really want occurs?

Do you set your braketing so that the uncompensated shot is first? So that in the case of action your best bet is the first of and the rest are just back up?

For these situations I would just rely on my meter and experience. Or better with a digital camera pop a couple of test shots to be sure my exposure is good and shoot RAW just to be sure.

Cheers
Jamie
 
I think it's nice to have but hardly what should define a camera as
lacking or not. I mean really, it's not like you can't take the
shot yoruself manually... if you are serious about your
photography you are probably using a tripod in those situations.. I
don't see what the big deal is.

And as for learning photography I would even say that removing
extras and keeping the basics is probably better for learning.
you are assuming you only bracket low light static scenes...
Now, the non-ability to use screw lenses. that's another story..
that's different.

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student
--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
Except since we are being told that the D40x and D80 share much of
the same engine etc. it is just as likely that they spent money
disabling it as it was already written for the D80.

I don't know... but bracking is pretty much Add number, repeat, add
number repeat... a very easy feature
Maybee it is easy, my point was that even easy costs more.

Regardless of how many times before or how similar product A is to product B. Product B will require its own tweaks and require testing of every feature it all adds up and a company has to draw a line.
 
Yep, after a bit of research, I felt quite happy buying the "cheap" K100D, and not the offereings from Canon or Nikon.

I cannot think of a better "cheap" camera out there, and, as you say, couple it with the DA21, DA40, or DA70 and you have an awesome small travel package capable of images of more "worthy" Canon or Nikon kits. I have the excellent "cheap" kit lenses (DA18-55 and DA 50-200), which outperform kit lenses from the true dSLR makers (the DA50-200 is without peer in its size / price range) , and I absolutely love my DA40. I may be "cheap", but I am happy ; ).
 
I shot film with a Minolta 212 for almost thirty years. Didn't pay
attention to the world of photographic magazines, just tried to
learn how to take the best pictures I could....

Never heard the word bracketing until I went digital and decided to
really get into this field.

But shockingly true as the above admission is, I had been braketing
all along. Yes, when I was in doubt I would manually change the
settings and take three or more images using different options.

By golly, I braketed with the best of them - And didn't even know
what I was doing... :)

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

And today, although my camera CAN do automatic bracketing, sorry to
say, but I still - STILL do this manually. Yes, horror of horrors I
shoot manual mode. Imagine that? $5000 dollar camera, and I shoot
manual.

Dave
Not shooting a lot of dynamic scenes.. flowers, landscapes etc I
take it.. people and animals tend to move while doing manual
bracketing.

And the last thing a bride wants to see is her photographer
changing settings every shot to make sure the dress is white.. not
a bit grey.
I can do all the bracketing I want without taking my eye from the view-finder. And in fact that's exactly what I do. But one thing I DON'T do, is take my eyes from the viewfinder to turn auto bracketing on, or turn it off.

Dave
 
Maybe Peter can correct me, but I thought he was referring to the post by LPG.

But even IF I'm right, it's still possible for both you and I to win this coveted title.

May I suggest that this honor, not only be bestowed on the winner, but perhaps there should be a prize? Perhaps a spanking new Nikon D40x? :)

Dave
Petteri Sulonen wrote:
Congrats, you win the "ridiculous post of the day" award. (NT)

Thank you for this award...

I would like to thank...
Canon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, for releasing entry level DLSRs with
a full basic feature set.

I would of course like to thank my parents and my wife...

I would also like to thank my Nikon CoolPix 950 which in 1998 let
me auto bracket some tough morning fog shots on a once-in-a
lifetime trip with my father in Alaska... where the moving ferry
was changing the scenery by the second...

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
Do you set your braketing so that the uncompensated shot is first?
So that in the case of action your best bet is the first of and the
rest are just back up?
Yes exactly... Assume the camera is goiing to get it right and then see what the alternatives are.. and sometimes its not that the metering is off just that the treatment of exposure creates a different effect.

Also sometimes I add exposure compensation so I am getting one exposed normally and two exposures to the high or low side.. if I have a good guess about what alternatives I am looking for.
--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
And BTW, the reason the Sony is for sellling less than the D40, is
cause thats the ONLY way Sony can unload them. MSRP came in at 999
originally, and they had to drop price, fast, and Sony does not
usually do that with a product. And even at it low price, they are
still losing market share. The new cameras had better be way
better, or Sony will be an also ran in the DSLR market.
That is not a "sale price" it is the current MSRP... and since the
orginal MSRP was 899 the Sony was NEVER $400 more than the current
price of the d40x... sorry I know facts suck.

Actually it is a well accepted marketing practice as you follow the
adoption curve on a products life to price hight at the start and
move the price down. Also standard accounting allows this because
once you sell enough units to cover some of the initial start up
costs the accounting per unit cost goes down and in a competative
market that makes sense.

Sony continues to be #2 in Digicam sales (Nikon #7) and were #3 in
DLSR sales in H2 of 2006... so I think they are doing just fine.
But since they are new to DLSRss they don't get the free pass to
release crippled cameras and have people line up to buy them...
Good thing.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
I shot film with a Minolta 212 for almost thirty years. Didn't pay
attention to the world of photographic magazines, just tried to
learn how to take the best pictures I could....

Never heard the word bracketing until I went digital and decided to
really get into this field.

But shockingly true as the above admission is, I had been braketing
all along. Yes, when I was in doubt I would manually change the
settings and take three or more images using different options.

By golly, I braketed with the best of them - And didn't even know
what I was doing... :)

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

And today, although my camera CAN do automatic bracketing, sorry to
say, but I still - STILL do this manually. Yes, horror of horrors I
shoot manual mode. Imagine that? $5000 dollar camera, and I shoot
manual.

Dave
Not shooting a lot of dynamic scenes.. flowers, landscapes etc I
take it.. people and animals tend to move while doing manual
bracketing.

And the last thing a bride wants to see is her photographer
changing settings every shot to make sure the dress is white.. not
a bit grey.
I can do all the bracketing I want without taking my eye from the
view-finder. And in fact that's exactly what I do. But one thing I
DON'T do, is take my eyes from the viewfinder to turn auto
bracketing on, or turn it off.
I don't either if its a situation like that.. I set it and take 3 per for that sequence especially now that good 4GB cards are $60 bucks..
--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
Maybe Peter can correct me, but I thought he was referring to the
post by LPG.

But even IF I'm right, it's still possible for both you and I to
win this coveted title.

May I suggest that this honor, not only be bestowed on the winner,
but perhaps there should be a prize? Perhaps a spanking new Nikon
D40x? :)
only if I can sell it on Ebay to get me a nice Prime Macro ;)
Dave
Petteri Sulonen wrote:
Congrats, you win the "ridiculous post of the day" award. (NT)

Thank you for this award...

I would like to thank...
Canon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, for releasing entry level DLSRs with
a full basic feature set.

I would of course like to thank my parents and my wife...

I would also like to thank my Nikon CoolPix 950 which in 1998 let
me auto bracket some tough morning fog shots on a once-in-a
lifetime trip with my father in Alaska... where the moving ferry
was changing the scenery by the second...

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
I can do all the bracketing I want without taking my eye from the
view-finder. And in fact that's exactly what I do. But one thing I
DON'T do, is take my eyes from the viewfinder to turn auto
bracketing on, or turn it off.
I don't either if its a situation like that.. I set it and take 3
per for that sequence especially now that good 4GB cards are $60
bucks..
If you recall, I originally stated that I did bracketing for years even before I heard the word.

The question here is about the D40x is it not? And you pointed out that it doesn't have bracketing. The responses that you have been getting from me and others, really boils down to, "Big Deal."

And to be fair, isn't that right? You want to learn photography? Which is to say, either as a serious amateur or professional, then you HAVE to learn bracketing. But bracketing is not ipso facto an option that you select with a menu.

And for all those who will be getting the camera in question. How much worse off are they?

Whether a pro, or someone taking pictures of the family?

Not very.

Dave
 
I'm not trying to take sides here and I don't know a great deal about the sony camera, but doesn't Nikon have a way better selection of lenses, including bang for the buck lenses such as the 55-200VR and 70-300VR which perform way above their price category? Their kit lenses are great too. Things like that may attract people to the D40/D40x. I would guess alot of the D40/x customers aren't big into the prime lenses, but more interested in something like the 18-200VR. Also Nikon has the best flash system, and the SB-600 is very cheap for what you get.

There has to be some reason why the A100 isn't selling well, as it has dropped in price significantly. Maybe it's because it says Sony instead of Minolta? I really don't know. Before I knew much about cameras, when I thought "camera" I thought canon or nikon, and although not necessariy the best choice for everyone, they are very safe choices and alot of people like that.
 
Glad my kid won't be being taught by a foul mouthed hater of open
discussion like you...

Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
My students love me and so do their parents. Your children won't need my help to teach them rudeness.

Open discussion doesn't include insulting the very people who give you the opportunity to have one. You should appologize to Phil. You will feel better.
Sincerely,
--
Wendell
http://www.wendellworld.com

'Not everything that counts can be counted, not everything that can be counted counts.'
Albert Einstein
 
I'm sure one thing that the Amazon purchase won't cure is rude,
obnoxious people who will say anything, no matter the truth or any
knowledge thereof.
Fanboy, child or just an ignorant @sshole, the tradition goes on.
And if you ask why i am doing the same thing you do- how does it feel?
I taught Jr. High for a while. I know where this comes from.
Sincerely,
--
Wendell
Nah you are out of order on that......being critical of a camera
isnt the same as throwing mud at a person. That is the
difference.....

Keep it to the topic..not the person.
Hi Barry,
Nice to see you on the side of decency and decorum. I will take my medicine.

i wrote what I did, as i said, so the OP could get a little taste of his own medicine. He started this whole thing by accusing Phil of bias. That is the basis for this whole thread- an insult. He deserves what he gets for being rude and making snide comments.
Apparently, I'm not the only person who thinks so.
Sincerely,
--
Wendell
http://www.wendellworld.com

'Not everything that counts can be counted, not everything that can be counted counts.'
Albert Einstein
 
Perhaps you should read some of your posts, because you do come off as something of a Sony fanboy.

If the specs of the D40x are not to your liking, why make a fuss over it. Just cross the camera off your list of possibilities and move on. As this camera also represents one of the lowest of the dSLR entry points, why not look a bit higher up the food chain, such as a Nikon D200 or a Canon 5D. Both are far superior cameras to the D40x.

As for IS, it is not a must have. Save some money and buy the ORIGINAL image stabilizer - a TRIPOD. And it works at ALL shutter speeds - LOL.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
 

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