DPREVIEW >> Jumping the Shark w/ D40x

By the way, you are aware that Sony has a stripped body AF motor,
lightweight camera on the boards, and they were actually supposed
to launch before Nikon...
Hmm we shall see..........I would give sony as much stick as I have
nikon that being the case.....its rather stupid to lock out
lenses..and a good range of lenses come to that.

I dont think they would do it myself.
They did it before, just to lock out aftermarket lens makers. With the 3i (back in the film days) Minolta changed the AF protocol so radically that it broke most aftermarket AF lenses. But they also locked out a lot of their own lenses in the process.

At least with the AF motor removal, there are two tangible benefits: size and cost.
Like that one they gave a Minolta that was the first DSLR to strip
the useful top panel LCD?
And how many entry level SLR's have a top panel LCD? Um
pentax..about it isnt it!
Yup, the rest followed suite.
One of those companies that uses the
pop-up flash for AF illumination?
Again how many have this? Most just use the flash AF
illuminator.....aka external flash. And the pop up works
ok..probably has better range ;-)
Nikon still uses a separate lamp. The pop-up may have better range, but it also has a second delay before the caps charge enough to fire it. And it's quite annoying.
The first company to try to cut
out the aftermarket flash manufacturers by adopting a proprietary
hot shoe?
Its been like that for years......and well they were also the ist
company to have wireless flash! So..........you got something back.
Yup, but it's not cause and effect. They could have done wireless flash without changing from an ISO standard shoe.
The first company to change to an AF system that had a
lens mount totally incompatible with a manual mount that could have
easily been adapter to AF? (talk about bait and switch).
Oh cmon you are reaching.......Minolta has been AF 20 years or
so.....and dont I remember Canon changing mounts.....?
Yes, you do. And that's why I said "a manual mount that could have easily been adapter to AF?"

Canon switched because it was necessary. Their previous attempt to add contacts to the FD "breech lock" mount was a disaster. Poor alignment and no wiping action.

Minolta didn't have to switch.
The
company so concerned with aftermarket AF lenses that they changed
the AF protocol in the Minolta 3i to keep Sigma and Tamron lenses
from working, and ended up changing it so drastically most Minolta
AF lenses wouldn't work any more? A company that doesn't see fast
power on as important? One that dropped their pro line, twice?
Wow keep on bashing.......! This company doesnt do cameras
anymore.....sony do them instead......so we will wait and see how
the pro line models stack up........and gasp maybe they will beat
nikon to FF?
Maybe.
Considering the number of lenses listed in your profile.....I would
imagine that you would be really happy not to be able to use them
for autofocus?
Actually, there are at least 10 manual focus lenses in there ;)

But seriously, I personally probably will never own a D40. I like the weight, but a D200 or D2X auto focus system spoils you.

I just think people are "reaching" to find reasons to bash it, or at least Phil's review of it.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Stabilization
depends on the lens
Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)
the demographics tat will buy this camera will probably never even know what bracketing means
Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses
most of the people that buy this camera will onw one lens. most times the kit lens
RAW+JPG with decent JPGs
they also dont shoot or know what RAW is
There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.
speak for yerself man. arent you one of the biggest fanboys out there ?
Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.
our eyes have been opened on people like you a long time ago ...
This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.
do i hear a lot of brand bias here ...

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
Yeah I know if I worked for nikon you would have the best featured,
most desirable entry level camera on the planet! Damn how terrible
that would be eh? ;-)
No offense Barry, but I doubt it.
Frankly I dont care if nikon sell a boatload.........I just feel
the consumer gets a poor deal.
Fair enough but the important thing is not what you feel but what those that have bought it feel. Have you got any indication that the majority of them feel ripped off?
And dont give me that old lemon about dont need this and that..or
oh kit lens is fine.........if thats the case then I suggest that
people get a bridge camera......you buy an SLR to get
LENSES............thats the whole idea...you can take em off!
You can suggest that but many people want SLRs and have no intention of changing lenses. Are you suggesting that they are banned from buying? Nikon has recognised this market and created a camera to uit them. A wise decision as the sales figures show.
Not that Nikon have worked that out.....or even that they have
locked their own users out on their own brand! All those nice AF
lenses...that wont AF.
Last time I looked, those users have a choice of cameras that AF. I will never buy the D40 but some people such as my colleagues' wife that asked my opinion about it think it is just right for them. They are about to buy one.
So ......you tell me.....who is mad? ;-)
I don't know about mad but I certainly know you is not being reasonable here by trying to force their wants onto every class of camera whether the target market wants it or not. Sort of like a benign dictator / nanny state gone mad ;-)

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)
 
Fascist one. Nazis love Darwin. You've confused it with the Commie
plot to put flouride in our drinking water.
Even so reading these kinds of emotional threads about the great Askey Conspiricy to support terrorism in the camera world, the brutal frauds about SONY, the patronising of certain brands (which I wont mention because it changees from day to day and poster to poster) I now understand why far less important subjects ( you know, trivial things like war, freedoms, etc, etc) can arouse such illogical fanaticism....

Can you do me a favor and remind me which brand has bought and sold Mr. Askey's soul? I keep getting confused with each new thread.

Dave
 
No, bracketing I don't like. If somebody is going to come along now
and tell me why I need three versions of every shot, that will be
great. Thanks.
Do you know what tone mapping is??

Well, you need at least three different exposures from the same scene to get a good HDR image. Oh, you won't be able to get them with the D40, because it doesnt have exposure bracketing!!!!!
 
Yes, you can. You can do this manually with ease.
  • Raist
No, bracketing I don't like. If somebody is going to come along now
and tell me why I need three versions of every shot, that will be
great. Thanks.
Do you know what tone mapping is??

Well, you need at least three different exposures from the same
scene to get a good HDR image. Oh, you won't be able to get them
with the D40, because it doesnt have exposure bracketing!!!!!
--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student
 
Although I have a stable of high end cameras I often pick up the D40 for assignments and it is an absolute please to use and gives great results all all ISO's -- more than I can say about many cameras including some of my high units.

You are obviously one of those people that equate no of featurtes, blah di blah, with quality photography.

How did people ever manage when there was the Nikon F or the Leica M6 -- with just a light meter, aperture ring and shutter speed dial???

There are too many gadget queens here and not enoughh real photographers. Sorry if I offend anyone, but some of this cr@p drives me nuts.

--
Peter Bendheim
Recent work... http://peterbendheimphotography.blogspot.com/
http://www.imagessouthafrica.co.za
 
How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)
Nonsense. I have been taking a class for over a year with a fine arts photographer and we touched on bracketing once. Moreover, this is something you can do manually without much trouble. Is it convenient to have bracketing by the camera? Sure, but is it essential like you say? no.
Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs


There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.
The Sony also costs $400 more at MSRP. And this camera seems to handle high ISO better.
For that price you can get a body + a decent lens.
Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10
months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this
isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly
knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.
The D40 is not at the same market bracket of the Sony. Deal.
This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.
I have my own suggestions for the site, but I find your reasoning faulty.
--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student
 
As digital cameras have but a tiny fraction of the exposure
lattitude of film, this would seem an entirely fanciful statement.
It may have a smaller lattitude compared to C41 but aren't you forgeting that little thing called the LCD Screen? When was the last time YOU used auto bracketing personally?

Bracketing was a feature design to help get the shot when shooting film particularly with E6. I reiterate that with digital, it is just a relic of the past.

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC
 
I shot film with a Minolta 212 for almost thirty years. Didn't pay attention to the world of photographic magazines, just tried to learn how to take the best pictures I could....

Never heard the word bracketing until I went digital and decided to really get into this field.

But shockingly true as the above admission is, I had been braketing all along. Yes, when I was in doubt I would manually change the settings and take three or more images using different options.

By golly, I braketed with the best of them - And didn't even know what I was doing... :)

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

And today, although my camera CAN do automatic bracketing, sorry to say, but I still - STILL do this manually. Yes, horror of horrors I shoot manual mode. Imagine that? $5000 dollar camera, and I shoot manual.

Dave
So you like bracketing. Go buy something else. I tried it and I
find it useless for me. I don't want 3 copies of the same picture.
I rather go into manual mode and control exposure. I want one
perfect exposure.

What you said is your opinion. Nothing more. Not everybody thinks
that way (including the reviewer). Some reviewers would agree with
you. The idea is not to get all absolute truth on one site but to
have diversity of opinions on many websites. If one starts to get
many things wrong the people migrate elsewhere over time.

I know how to use camera quite well and I too think that D40x is
very good for it's purpose.

Imants
If you got three identical pictures you didn't do it right... its
not for everyone... but I can tell you there will not be a Pro
camera without out it.

I am sure there is a market for the D40x and that is good.
A) as long as people know it is ground breaking for missing
features on a DSRL
B) an They aren't paying $100 for cameras with better feature sets
from Canon and Sony...

Happy picture taking...:)

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
For what it's worth, here is my opinion.

The D40 is missing some features, and consequently did not receive a 10/10 on features - seems pretty reasonable to me.

Your also buying a system, not just a camera. Nikon has the best entry level lenses by far (good prices, amazing IQ, VR), as well as easily the best flash system. A D40 allows you to take advantage of these at a reasonable price.

The D40 can take pictures just as good as more expensive cameras in most situations. I'm sure there are some images that nobody could tell whether they were taken with a D40 or a D2Xs.

It takes an unbelievable amount of time and much appreciated effort to write those reviews. I realize sony may have a high level of sales, but thats in the P&S market. 90% of those sales are to people who know nothing about cameras and buy the first one they like and because it says sony on it and they also have a sony TV. The cameras people are generally most interested in, and cost the most, are the ones people research more and care more about their perfomance. Phil does a great job at reviewing the most popular ones in that respect in my opinion.

I don't think anyone can really compalin until they make their own site and take the time to do the same quality of reviews. Be glad he is even doing anything at all.

Mark
 
It may have a smaller lattitude compared to C41
This would have to be the understatement of the (young) century.
but aren't you forgeting that little thing called the LCD Screen?
Yep, you are the only one that's noticed that thing dominating the back of the camera. Things all look too good on the camera's LCD screen, and underexposure can easily go unnoticed. Besides, in the era of fast cameras and $10 2GB memory cards, there is no real impetus to limit yourself to a single exposure--regardless of how ideal you view your camera's metering or how adept you fancy yourself at evaluating shots on the camera's LCD.
When was the last time YOU used auto bracketing personally?
The last time I took a picture. I'm looking to insure the best results possible as well as give me the most options in post processing, should it be needed.
Bracketing was a feature design to help get the shot when shooting
film particularly with E6. I reiterate that with digital, it is
just a relic of the past.
This is just silly. I guess you've never heard of HDR in addition to seriously overating the exposure lattitude inherent in today's digital camera technology.
--
Panasonic FZ5 and LZ3 pics - http://www.s90223656.onlinehome.us
 
How did people ever manage when there was the Nikon F or the Leica
M6 -- with just a light meter, aperture ring and shutter speed
dial???
Well, if you go back even further you didn't even get the light meter. Perhaps Nikon will see its ommision as a necessary and beneficial move at some future point as well.

And why don't you put your money where your mouth is--go back to a Nikon F exclusively. That would really prove your point, I guess.
--
Panasonic FZ5 and LZ3 pics - http://www.s90223656.onlinehome.us
 
It may have a smaller lattitude compared to C41
This would have to be the understatement of the (young) century.
So it does and is comparable to E6. Anyway, this is a bit a a Red Herring.
but aren't you forgeting that little thing called the LCD Screen?
Yep, you are the only one that's noticed that thing dominating the
back of the camera. Things all look too good on the camera's LCD
screen, and underexposure can easily go unnoticed. Besides, in the
era of fast cameras and $10 2GB memory cards, there is no real
impetus to limit yourself to a single exposure--regardless of how
ideal you view your camera's metering or how adept you fancy
yourself at evaluating shots on the camera's LCD.
I guess you didn't read the part of the manual that shows how to display the histogram
When was the last time YOU used auto bracketing personally?
The last time I took a picture. I'm looking to insure the best
results possible as well as give me the most options in post
processing, should it be needed.
Bracket away then. Even when shooting E6, I didn't braket every shot and with the ability to evaluate exposure on digital, I haven't for three or more years now and can't foresee any real need to do so in the future.
Bracketing was a feature design to help get the shot when shooting
film particularly with E6. I reiterate that with digital, it is
just a relic of the past.
This is just silly. I guess you've never heard of HDR in addition
to seriously overating the exposure lattitude inherent in today's
digital camera technology.
I still don't see why no braketing is a major issue. HDR is a niche thing and not a mainstream feature. How many D40 buyers will shell out for the full version of PS to get access to HDR or how many will trawl the web looking for alternatives? Sorry, but you are srambling about to find something. If any case while you and some others might bang on about how crippled the D40 is, Mrs Smith and her friends from the Country Club just keeps on buying them to upgrade from their p&S units { http://www.popphoto.com/ ... ... 4198/top-selling-digital-slrs-for-april.html}. They have no interest in the stuff you obssess about and providing them what they want is plain old business sense.

Kudos to Nikon.

--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

'Human nature being what it is, and unlikely to change, these events will
no doubt be repeated in the future.'
Thucydides 400 BC
 
--Seeing as quite a few Magazines have rated it low, I'm quite surprised at how Phil rated it the way he has....

As for those comeing up from P&S/Bridge cameras, I think they'ed be far better off to stick to them than buy the D40x...In Fact! If anyone wants to come from P&S/Bridge to DSLR then I would say,they'd be far better off saveing up their Cash n Buying a Nikon D50/D70/D80 instead. (if they want to go Nikon)...As far as Nikon knowing their Market (whoever said that is correct) because All of the DSLR makers are only after your CASH, n boy, do they know how to suck in Suckers...Majority of Peeps in the 35mm film days would NEVER have got Suckered into the way we are being Suckered in now..Two cameras they bought n Two they only needed....Now it seams ya gota Rob a Bank n Buy 6 ..Majority of DSLRs can be Fixed with Firmware upgrade but instead they bring out another with a Minor Upgrade....I guess I could go on n on n on but Some of you Know alls will only pop back in n spout off things that three quarters of the members here would not know or care what your spouting about.
JMHO folks!!!!
MrScary (DennisR)
Swansea, Wales. UK

http://www.pbase.com/dennisr
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrscarecrow
http://www.russ4to.KMD5DImages.photoshare.co.nz
 
First of all, I do not believe that Phil is showing any bias when reviewing camera models.

That's a stretch, at best. Any reviewer is going to have an opinion on what may be important to users looking at a given market niche.

If you don't agree with it, fine. But, please don't "cross the line" with unwarranted accusations.

Anyway, here's a reply that I made to a poster that asked me which camera I'd choose between the D40 and D40x, after I answered soime questions for them about things like Sync Speed and lowest ISO speed earlier (in another forum). To me, some things are more important than bracketing, and I mentioned a few of them in my reply to a "which one would you buy" type question.

"Asking me which one I'd choose may not result in the best camera for your needs. ;-)

I'm probably not the best person to ask about Nikon DSLR models, since I'm still angry that Nikon decided to encrypt metadata related to White Balance in raw files from newer models (starting with the D2x, then the D2Hs, D50, D200, etc.). It's a matter of principle with me, since I don't like a manufacturer trying to throw up roadblocks like encryption to stifle competition. Yes, there are some workarounds now if you want to use non-Nikon software and take advantage of the White Balance metadata in the .nef files. But, the data is still encrypted.

But, even without the encryption issue preventing me from wanting newer Nikon gear, I wouldn't buy either one of these cameras anyway, since I'd want to use brighter primes (and still have Autofocus), as well as take advantage of lenses from third party manufacturers like Tokina, Tamron and more.

If forced to use a newer Nikon DSLR, I'd be more inclined to find a D50 if I were on a tight budget, or move to a higher end Nikon if budget permitted and skip the models without AF Motors in the bodies.

Heck, two Tamron zooms I shoot with now on a Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D would not Autofocus on these cameras if I bought the same lenses in Nikon mount, and I'd have no Nikon solutions available with Autofocus to replace my existing AF primes (for example, my Minolta 28mm f/2, 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2.8 ).

For that matter, I've still got a Sigma zoom in Nikon mount that wouldn't Autofocus on these models (even though it would AF on other Nikon DSLR bodies). I've sold the rest of my Nikon film gear (only one body and lens left now).

Nikon will probably introduce more lenses with AF-S in the future. I'd probably count on it. This is likely to be a temporary problem in the lens lineup.

Sigma also offers some EX series lenses with HSM. But, Sigma's lower cost lenses don't get that feature, and no lenses from Tamron, Tokina, Vivitar/Cosina/Phoenix will Autofocus on these cameras.

If you want Autofocus, these camera bodies lock you out of many lower cost lenses from a variety of manufacturers, including Nikon (especially if you want to take advantage of older model used lenses).

I shoot in low light relatively often, and I would not want to give up brighter primes with AF. For example, I took some snapshots of my 2 year old great niece Amara from a dance recital this month using my 100mm f/2, and I was still getting a touch of motion blur from hand and foot movement, even at ISO 1600. If I were shooting with a Nikon DSLR in those same conditions , I'd probably be using an 85mm f/1.8 (only it won't Autofocus on a D40 or D40x).

I took some snapshots of more kids at a basketball game not long ago using brighter primes shooting some at ISO 1600, and some at ISO 3200 at close to wide open apertures to keep motion blur at a minimum. I also use my primes for live music in clubs, church services and more. There is no way that I'd give up the ability to Autofocus with bright primes since there are other choices in cameras available.

Sure, photographers got by with no Autofocus for many years. But, now that you can get it, why live without it if you need lenses that won't Autofocus on these camera models? ;-)

In fairness, you could use Manual Focus if desired. But, for moving subjects, focus tracking features in newer AF cameras is a nice to have. That also brings up another point --- the D40 and D40x have less in the way of focus points compared to other Nikon DSLR bodies. Do you need them? Maybe not, but I use the outside focus points pretty darn often on my Maxxum 5D (it's got 9 to choose from versus the 3 you'd have with a D40 or D40x).

Do you need the types of lenses that won't Autofocus on a D40 or D40x? If so, do you mind using Manual Focus with them?

Each user will have different shooting requirements. Many users that these models are designed to target may be just fine with the lens solutions already available (and there are a number of lenses that have built in Focus Motors that would Autofocus). Removing the Focus motor in the body also helped Nikon to make these cameras smaller and lighter. The image processing used by these models is also very good (requiring less post processing for equivalent results compared to many other models).

There are pros and cons to any camera. One of these models may be the perfect fit for what you shoot more often, and you may not want or need the same types of lenses that I tend to use more often. "

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield
 

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