DPREVIEW >> Jumping the Shark w/ D40x

OK, you have a professional background in marketing. Well just because your clients try to screw their customers with the help of marketing doesn't mean Nikon does as well. Why always think negative? Has it ever occured to you that Nikon maybe know their customers very well and have a reason not to include bracketing? Most probably they well know that the target audience for the D40 has absolutely zero interest in such a feature, less is more here. Really, if Nikon thought that the lack of bracketing was a deal killer for a significant number of potential buyers, they would have included it. I've owned a DSLR for three years and have never used the feature, I simply don't need it.

If you really want to talk about consumer-unfriendly, untruthful marketing then take a look at your beloved Sony. Rebadging Tamron lenses as their own seems a lot more worthy of criticism than leaving out an insignificant feature on an entry-level DSLR.

--
The best camera is the one you have with you

Well... if the D80/D40 is not your only camera and you still have another camera that accepts CF cards, I don't consider that a deal breaker. Memory cards aren't that expensive anymore these days... simply buy a new card...

Barry Fitzgerald said:

MarcV said:

It does matter if you want a small camera for those moments you
don't want to carry a more bulky camera like the D200. For me, the
D40x is no option as an alternative to my D200 as all my lenses
except one are screw driver type AF lenses.

Click to expand...

I see a bullet in nikon's foot here! Lets not forget the CF D200
cards dont work on the D80/40 (SD).....

Nikon are suffering from mad camera design issues........

I am sure a few Nikon users would have picked up a D40 as a backup
camera.....but hey most of your lenses wont work (AF), and your
card doesnt fit! Wow.........call me crazy but what bright spark
thought that one up?

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

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--
Marc Vandenhende

MarcV said:

Well... if the D80/D40 is not your only camera and you still have
another camera that accepts CF cards, I don't consider that a deal
breaker. Memory cards aren't that expensive anymore these days...
simply buy a new card...

Click to expand...

True.......but why not start as you mean to go on? aka D200 and every new camera SD? Instead of mixed formats?

And the lens issue doesnt go away..........you got a nice collection you cannot use AF for! That isnt that clever really...well I dont think so.

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

.... Or did you try to brain wash the kids ? If they were not of your opinions did you call them dumb ? hole ? traitors ? .....

LPG

No one wants to hear that!

Ken_5D said:

And we were talking about the "Highly Reccomended" for a camera
that can't even compete all the entry level photograhy class
exercises .. like braketing... easily.

Click to expand...

You can still braket, theres just no Auto-braket mode. Any class that didn't go through braketing manually in the first place wouldn't be much of a photography class entry or otherwise.

Ken_5D said:

Chato said:

Bob Blount said:

This is an old tired thread subject dredged up when some one's
masculinity is challenge when their camera is not tested or not
rated high enough. If you want to get results, use the "Feedback"
option, if you want to draw attention and maybe find someone to
strock you ego, post it here.

News Discussion Forum
Welcome to the News Discussion Forum, the place to discuss news
articles, breaking news and new technology. There are specific
brand forums available.

Click to expand...

And when I read a camera review I never pay attention to the final
ratings.

What's REALLY nice about these reviews is that everthing you need
to know about a camera is in fact given. If it scores low in noise

• By gosh, the tests show the noise.

Want to compare cameras side by side? Not a problem.

So Mr. Askey, in a compromise with reality supplies a "rating." I
have no trouble with that. I don't even bother looking at the
"rating."

In an objective consistent manner, these cameras are put through
standardised tests.

If someones idea of a review is simply to look at the conclusions,
the poster might have a point. But if you actually READ and STUDY
the details, you are getting ALL the facts in a clear and concise
manner.

Mr. Askey is doing a good job.

Click to expand...

Of supporting his favorite brands.

Click to expand...

If you had a different handle, you'd notice that Nikon is not one of his "favorite brands".

Ken_5D said:

if it were run like a business
it would not only seek to inform as a service to build trust.. but
reflect the market. Why is the #2 digital camera seller.. being
ignored for 10 months.....??

Click to expand...

Nikon is not being ignored.

(if you're referring to Sony, they only held number 2 for a couple of months based on the strength of one product intro).

Ken_5D said:

But I know this is Amazon and Phil's site so I knew those he takes
good care of would circle the wagons...

Click to expand...

That would be....

Sony.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Ken_5D said:

fredferkel said:

I'd have absolutely no reservations at all to highly recommend the
D40x to somebody wanting to step up from a P&S to a DSLR. A huge
part of such people have no interest in photography as a hobby,
they just want to take great pictures quickly and the D40 is
perfect for that.

Bracketing is completely irrelevant to this group, ask 10 novices

Click to expand...

I do think about these things and having a professional background
in marketing & product managment.. I can spot a consumer unfriendly
decicsion a mile a way.

What customer need did removing bracketing fix:
Cost? its a simple programming trick to take three shots at three
different EVs

"do you think anyone wants a camera with features that cost almost
nothing stripped out"

Click to expand...

Well, you did. You bought one from a brand who stripped the AF illuminator, and used the pop up flash for that purpose. The first company to strip the top panel LCD. (big cost savings there, must cost as much as a bargain level digital watch).

So, avoid mirrors, because they'll show you the kind of consumer that you say doesn't exist.

Maybe that's the best we can expect from a "marketing & product managment" professional that can't spell management.

Ken_5D said:

You are right, lots of people may never know what is missing and
"hey Dude, I got a Nikon" but we both know there will be some
that will buy this camera and want to learn more. Some may buy a
Nikon for a highschool or College kid as a gift because that kid
loves cameras.
These peopel will be lead towards an upgrade.. very fast.

AND there are some that do want it and if they want a Nikon are
forced to a D80 because this camera is clearly designed to protect
the D80 at all costs.

We can only hope buyers realize why the D40 is crippled and jump to
another brand vs valildating the upsell protection.

Click to expand...

You want crippled? Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Oly, Leica, etc. all use the ISO standard hot shoe. Sony has the proprietary Minolta shoe.

Ken_5D said:

Poetic Justice would be if all the P&S one lens people bought
this.. and all the budget minded buyers who want to add lenses
ended up going to Canon or Sony because of this.. Penny wise pound
foolish....

Click to expand...

Yes, you definitely are.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Ken_5D said:

What customer need did removing bracketing fix:
Cost? its a simple programming trick to take three shots at three
different EVs

Click to expand...

Nikon must have thought that there were customers who wanted Nikon DSLR's at lower price points. I have no doubt they are correct

Regardless of how 'simple' a programming trick braketing is, it still costs R&D money to implement and test on a new device no matter how many times they have done it before or on how many models. So when they were brainstorming how they would save money it made the list of cuts.

And IMO its no big deal, the D70 is the first (slr) camera I have ever owned with the feature and I still end up braketing manually most of the time anyway (when I went to school for photogrpahy they insisted full manual cameras were a requisite anyway).

Barry Fitzgerald said:

wrider said:

I'm sure one thing that the Amazon purchase won't cure is rude,
obnoxious people who will say anything, no matter the truth or any
knowledge thereof.
Fanboy, child or just an ignorant @sshole, the tradition goes on.
And if you ask why i am doing the same thing you do- how does it feel?
I taught Jr. High for a while. I know where this comes from.
Sincerely,

Click to expand...

Nah you are out of order on that......being critical of a camera
isnt the same as throwing mud at a person. That is the
difference.....

Click to expand...

Barry, the point is that there is no difference.

Ken_5D is "throwing mud at a person". Here's a bit from farther up the thread.

Ken_5D said:

Chato said:

Mr. Askey is doing a good job.

Click to expand...

Of supporting his favorite brands.. if it were run like a business
it would not only seek to inform as a service to build trust.. but
reflect the market. Why is the #2 digital camera seller.. being
ignored for 10 months.....??

But I know this is Amazon and Phil's site so I knew those he takes
good care of would circle the wagons...

Click to expand...

And elsewhere in this thread...

Member said:

YOU seem quite clueless about marketing

Click to expand...

In all caps, because he needs to shout his insults.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

(NT)

Ken_5D said:

But.. I really don't think you do the value of your reviews and
credibiity and good, giving a "Highly Reccomended" to a camera
missing key basic features even when compared with other cameras in
the price range..

Someone wanting to learn photography would quickly learn in any
beginning class that the D40s are lacking bracketing that all the
other DLSRs have and even some of the P&Ss...

Click to expand...

Actually, a beginning class would have you put the camera in manual exposure mode, and never touch the bracketing control.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your arguments.

Because reality can be so cruel...

Ken_5D said:

so it isn't even a
good starter DSLR for someone who wants to grow into the Nikon
system on a budget...

To some of us.. with the loss of support for less expensive lenses
and braketing the D40 seems more like the first step in an Bate and
Switch.. as in "If you want a REAL Nikon that you can learn
photography on let me show you a D80/D70/even D50" This is a
camera built to be upgraded as soon as the buyer learns anything...

Click to expand...

By the way, you are aware that Sony has a stripped body AF motor, lightweight camera on the boards, and they were actually supposed to launch before Nikon...

Ken_5D said:

If you think that deserves a Highly Reccomended.. some of us are
disapointed.. It cheapens all the other Highly Reccomendeds you
have given

Click to expand...

Like that one they gave a Minolta that was the first DSLR to strip the useful top panel LCD? One of those companies that uses the pop-up flash for AF illumination? The first company to try to cut out the aftermarket flash manufacturers by adopting a proprietary hot shoe? The first company to change to an AF system that had a lens mount totally incompatible with a manual mount that could have easily been adapter to AF? (talk about bait and switch). The company so concerned with aftermarket AF lenses that they changed the AF protocol in the Minolta 3i to keep Sigma and Tamron lenses from working, and ended up changing it so drastically most Minolta AF lenses wouldn't work any more? A company that doesn't see fast power on as important? One that dropped their pro line, twice?

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

... you are such a Sony fanboy, why do you care at all about the D40x review?

As for your auto bracketing rant - in over 30 years of photography, I have NEVER used the autobracket feature on any camera I have owned. I have bracketed manually, however.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

By the way, you are aware that Sony has a stripped body AF motor,
lightweight camera on the boards, and they were actually supposed
to launch before Nikon...

Click to expand...

Hmm we shall see..........I would give sony as much stick as I have nikon that being the case.....its rather stupid to lock out lenses..and a good range of lenses come to that.

I dont think they would do it myself.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Like that one they gave a Minolta that was the first DSLR to strip
the useful top panel LCD?

Click to expand...

And how many entry level SLR's have a top panel LCD? Um pentax..about it isnt it!

One of those companies that uses the

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

pop-up flash for AF illumination?

Click to expand...

Again how many have this? Most just use the flash AF illuminator.....aka external flash. And the pop up works ok..probably has better range ;-)

The first company to try to cut

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

out the aftermarket flash manufacturers by adopting a proprietary
hot shoe?

Click to expand...

Its been like that for years......and well they were also the ist company to have wireless flash! So..........you got something back.

The first company to change to an AF system that had a

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

lens mount totally incompatible with a manual mount that could have
easily been adapter to AF? (talk about bait and switch).

Click to expand...

Oh cmon you are reaching.......Minolta has been AF 20 years or so.....and dont I remember Canon changing mounts.....?

The

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

company so concerned with aftermarket AF lenses that they changed
the AF protocol in the Minolta 3i to keep Sigma and Tamron lenses
from working, and ended up changing it so drastically most Minolta
AF lenses wouldn't work any more? A company that doesn't see fast
power on as important? One that dropped their pro line, twice?

Click to expand...

Wow keep on bashing.......! This company doesnt do cameras anymore.....sony do them instead......so we will wait and see how the pro line models stack up........and gasp maybe they will beat nikon to FF?

Considering the number of lenses listed in your profile.....I would imagine that you would be really happy not to be able to use them for autofocus?
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

I think it's nice to have but hardly what should define a camera as lacking or not. I mean really, it's not like you can't take the shot yoruself manually... if you are serious about your photography you are probably using a tripod in those situations.. I don't see what the big deal is.

And as for learning photography I would even say that removing extras and keeping the basics is probably better for learning.

Now, the non-ability to use screw lenses. that's another story.. that's different.

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

fredferkel said:

Has it ever occured to you that Nikon maybe know their
customers very well and have a reason not to include bracketing?

Click to expand...

I have a DSLR, and I've probably shot over 15 thousand images during
the last 4 years ... and I use just about every feature my camera
can offer, except for bracketing.

I will dial in "exposure compensation" from time to time, based on
lighting situations, but just plain old "bracketing", it just fills up my
CF card with images I don't want. And as I shoot RAW, each image
is quite a lot.

No, bracketing I don't like. If somebody is going to come along now
and tell me why I need three versions of every shot, that will be
great. Thanks.

But "exposure compensation", that's a great feature that I already
know about. And looking, this new Nikon has exposure compensation.

... typically isn't on their list of candidate entry-level SLR cameras.

The Pentax bodies, K100D and the K10D are so feature-rich they put the competition to shame.

And those awesome pancake lenses ....

--
Regards, David Chin
http://pentaxk10d.dpnotes.com/

I don't like the OP tone but really, the features are terrible, entry level or target market whatever, it's missing some real fundamentals.
--
***********************************************
Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

Updated April 2007

... I used auto bracketing

I know I have never used it on my D200 since I bought it back in April 2006. I think the last time was sometime back in 2005.

Auto bracketing is a safety net useful for film photography. If the D200 didn't have it, I certainly wouldn't have missed it.

Yes I shot film with the peerless Maxxum 7 and bracketed then but with digital, Auto Bracketing is bascally a waste of time.

So why are Ken and Barry so riled about this? When did you last bracket really? Barry has been bashing the D40 since day one but thank God he doesn't work for Nikon as this camera is a highly successful one and was second highest seller in the US last month and has been a high seller since day one.

Yes he will retort with stuff about crippling cameras but AS LONG AS IT MEETS THE NEEDS OF THE TARGET MARKET, IT MATTERS NOT A JOT.
--
.
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

Dayo said:

So why are Ken and Barry so riled about this? When did you last
bracket really? Barry has been bashing the D40 since day one but
thank God he doesn't work for Nikon as this camera is a highly
successful one and was second highest seller in the US last month
and has been a high seller since day one.

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Yeah I know if I worked for nikon you would have the best featured, most desirable entry level camera on the planet! Damn how terrible that would be eh? ;-)

Dayo said:

Yes he will retort with stuff about crippling cameras but AS LONG
AS IT MEETS THE NEEDS OF THE TARGET MARKET, IT MATTERS NOT A JOT.

Click to expand...

Frankly I dont care if nikon sell a boatload.........I just feel the consumer gets a poor deal.

And dont give me that old lemon about dont need this and that..or oh kit lens is fine.........if thats the case then I suggest that people get a bridge camera......you buy an SLR to get LENSES............thats the whole idea...you can take em off!

Not that Nikon have worked that out.....or even that they have locked their own users out on their own brand! All those nice AF lenses...that wont AF.

So ......you tell me.....who is mad? ;-)

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)