geoduck
Senior Member
Just return the camera for something else that also carries a similar return policy. Life's too short to use tools you don't like and that cost a lot of money. It's just a camera.
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HELP! thinking about returning k10d
- Thread starter Erin Holliday
- Start date
Tom__Brown
Senior Member
Why are you so quick to judge?
Is it that hard to believe someone could not like their K10D? It's not for me. Particularly with the kit lens, I'm surprised so many people are so quick to defend it.
Tom
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K100D, DA 16-45, DA 50-200
Why would an "advanced enthusiast" not want good looking jpegs out the camera??
By you reckoning the jpeg quality gets worse as the camera gets aimed more and more towards the "pro" market.
This simply is NOT true. The MKIII canon cameras have Excellent JPEG quality. Some pros opt just to use JPEG for time constraints (journalism) therefore the camera must have a good output first time.
Your logic is certainly flawed here.
Gethin Lane Nikon D 8 0
By you reckoning the jpeg quality gets worse as the camera gets aimed more and more towards the "pro" market.
This simply is NOT true. The MKIII canon cameras have Excellent JPEG quality. Some pros opt just to use JPEG for time constraints (journalism) therefore the camera must have a good output first time.
Your logic is certainly flawed here.
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Gethin Lane Nikon D 8 0
John Bean (UK)
Forum Pro
It's less likely that the "advanced amateur" will not want to "polish" his images, so less likely he will choose to accept what the camera chooses to churn out. Just like the "advanced amateur" film user probably didn't use Wal*Mart as his film processing lab and accepting what he was given as the best the camera could manage.
That's a leap of logic that doesn't withstand scrutiny. Professional photographers have a completely different set of values and requirements compared with those of an amateur, and "pro" cameras reflect this in their specification.
Of course it does - it's a pro camera and not aimed at the amateur market at all. It also has a huge range of in-camera adjustments to allow the photographer to get exactly the kind of JPEG that he could achieve only from raw in a lesser-specified model. That sort of technology doesn't come at amateur prices.
So is yours ;-)
--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')
PAW 2007 Week 20:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/2/154041662/Large
Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (21 March 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2641073
John Bean (UK)
Forum Pro
That really is the bottom line Mike, and well stated.
--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')
PAW 2007 Week 20:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/2/154041662/Large
Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (21 March 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2641073
Brett St Pierre
Veteran Member
It doesn't need any defence. Not everybody has to love a DSLR even if they think they should. For a lot of people, a digicam is what will give them the best results. Like it or not, a DSLR, any DSLR, requires some investment in thought unless all you want is lower noise than digicam.
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Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder
The Journey is the Thing[/U]
Frederick Stewart
Senior Member
Either you got a faulty camera, or you haven't a clue what u are doing. I am sure you have seen photos posted taken with the K10D that blow away the S80 photos. I have the canon S3 anything beyond ISO 200 is unusable similar engine to S80, and small noisy sensor, inferior lens, giving mine away.
There are some that should stick to point and shoot cameras plain and simple.or keep quiet and learn to use a SLR, of any make, a different ball game altogether . No hard feelings, have a nice day.
Fred. Cheers !
Love my K10D
There are some that should stick to point and shoot cameras plain and simple.or keep quiet and learn to use a SLR, of any make, a different ball game altogether . No hard feelings, have a nice day.
Fred. Cheers !
Love my K10D
DLBlack
Forum Pro
One thing might be that you have a bad camera or lens, but assuming you dn't then the likely things is that you are too down on the learning curve for a advanced dslr like the K10D (or equalivant from other brands). A K100D with a high quality lens (at least one up from the kit lens) will most likely get you the reults you are more use to with your P&S camera. A canera like the K100D will also have features that you can learn at a latter date when you are making your way up the learning curve. Then at a latter date if you feel you reached the point where you can use an advance dslr then upgrade and save the older camera or a second/backup body. By that time most liley you will have a bunch of lenses and know something about processing RAW files or at least making settings to the incamera jpeg processor and using features like the histogram, the blinkies, exposure comp., Av, Tv M modes and all the oher features that gives the prographer control of how he wants the photos to look.
Then again there is also the advanced p&s camera like the G7. It behaves more like a p&s camera but can behave kind of like a dlsr in the control you have if you want. If you go this way thn when you reach the point were you out grown the advance p&s camera you can upgrade to a dslr and have a very nice p&s camera when you want to go light weight.
I have a old Pentax DS, a K10D and a G7 and use them all. They are all excellent camera when you know how to use them.
Dave
Then again there is also the advanced p&s camera like the G7. It behaves more like a p&s camera but can behave kind of like a dlsr in the control you have if you want. If you go this way thn when you reach the point were you out grown the advance p&s camera you can upgrade to a dslr and have a very nice p&s camera when you want to go light weight.
I have a old Pentax DS, a K10D and a G7 and use them all. They are all excellent camera when you know how to use them.
Dave
DLBlack
Forum Pro
John,
You are right about this. Maybe in the upcoming K1D we will start seeing some of these pro-features (like total control of the jpeg processing). In the meantime we have the K100D with the good (but limited control) out of the camera jpegs, and the K10D with the excellent RAW processing but limited control of the jpegs.
I still havent shot a jpeg with the K10D and have shot overr 3,000 phots with it. I just enjoy using the computer as a darkroom to give me the photo I was visualizing at the time I was taking the photo. I really just can not image not post processing any photos. The G-7 without raw is a real pain since it takes a lot longer to postpocess a jpeg from the camera than doing raw.
Dave
You are right about this. Maybe in the upcoming K1D we will start seeing some of these pro-features (like total control of the jpeg processing). In the meantime we have the K100D with the good (but limited control) out of the camera jpegs, and the K10D with the excellent RAW processing but limited control of the jpegs.
I still havent shot a jpeg with the K10D and have shot overr 3,000 phots with it. I just enjoy using the computer as a darkroom to give me the photo I was visualizing at the time I was taking the photo. I really just can not image not post processing any photos. The G-7 without raw is a real pain since it takes a lot longer to postpocess a jpeg from the camera than doing raw.
Dave
It's less likely that the "advanced amateur" will not want to
"polish" his images, so less likely he will choose to accept what
the camera chooses to churn out. Just like the "advanced amateur"
film user probably didn't use Wal*Mart as his film processing lab
and accepting what he was given as the best the camera could manage.
That's a leap of logic that doesn't withstand scrutiny.
Professional photographers have a completely different set of
values and requirements compared with those of an amateur, and
"pro" cameras reflect this in their specification.
Of course it does - it's a pro camera and not aimed at the
amateur market at all. It also has a huge range of in-camera
adjustments to allow the photographer to get exactly the kind of
JPEG that he could achieve only from raw in a lesser-specified
model. That sort of technology doesn't come at amateur prices.
So is yours ;-)
--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')
PAW 2007 Week 20:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/2/154041662/Large
Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (21 March 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2641073
Mark Prinz
Senior Member
I tried not to stick my neck out, but it's bothering me that there are so many replies to this thread that are simply bashing the OP as being incompetent. Either some of you just never bothered to read the entire post or you're just so set on believing the K10d to be infallible that you feel threatened that someone might not be happy with it.
How does that lead to incompetence?
Again, where's the incompetence?
Do I need to get motherly? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."
Play nice boys.
-Mark
--
http://www.photobird.com/prinz/
http://mutedphotos.deviantart.com/
(emphasis added on my part)
How does that lead to incompetence?
Is this what has everyone so worked up? I'm sorry, but, to be honest, it's at least partially correct, as far as what the OP wants out of the camera. The K10D is hardly known for it's crisp, vivid jpegs straight from the camera. Look at the reviews, look at the comparisons, it's pretty obvious. Whether it's a fault of the camera or a feature is neither here nor there, but it's a problem for the OP, and for the OP it's a problem with the camera.
Again, where's the incompetence?
Do I need to get motherly? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."
Play nice boys.
-Mark
--
http://www.photobird.com/prinz/
http://mutedphotos.deviantart.com/
Harri R'is'nen
Forum Enthusiast
I agree, rid out of K10D as soon as possible. You have made an mistake, bought completely wrong equipment for you. It is not an PP and using it properly, classic photographing skills are needed 
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Harri
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Harri
Whilst this is undoubtedly true, the advanced enthusiast will want to polish his pictures. This doesn't clear up why he would want a camera which doesn't produce a better image first time?? Just because he will be polishing his pictures up doesn't mean the camera should give a poorer image to begin with.
Your statment is like saying: since "advanced enthusiast" race car drivers spend a lot of time tweaking their car to perform better, they don't want a car that performs better in the first place. This is where your logic is flawed.
Gethin Lane Nikon D 8 0
Well said. Too many people on this forum are overly protective of their precious pentax.
Just because it works for you, doesn't automatically mean that if it doesn't work for somebody else it's down to their incompetence.
Try to keep an open mind here people. The OP was only asking for advice.
Gethin Lane Nikon D 8 0
Just because it works for you, doesn't automatically mean that if it doesn't work for somebody else it's down to their incompetence.
Try to keep an open mind here people. The OP was only asking for advice.
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Gethin Lane Nikon D 8 0
Points to make:
People have been very sucessfully duped into buying products that aren't for them by the percieved wisdom that DSLRs are 'better'. With a DSLR your're buying potential, NOT ability. The reason why DSLRs are capable of producing better images than almost any compact is their felxibility, they require effort and skill because they leave it up to the photographer.
The photographer's brain is an infinately better image processor than a cheap silicon chip. The image qulity of a DSLR comes from your ability to percieve the world not the cameras. Have a low key or very high key subject and a P&S will struggle, a DSLR will struggle less but my brain doesn't struggle at all. I can far more easily overide a DSLR and apply my brain's 'settings' to a DSLR than I can with a P&S.
However, maybe I don't want to do this all the time so I stick it on auto or pick up a P&S. As I say they are complimentary not replacements for each other.
The K10D assumes its users will want to control more often so it produces JPEGS that are 'duller' to give you more room to manoeuver. If this isn't what one wants perhaps a bridge camera is a better idea.
--
http://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucsacco/
- DSLRs and P&S are NOT the same:
- A DSLR is NOT an upmarket P&S
- It is NOT a replacement for a P&S
- They are NOT mutual exclusive
People have been very sucessfully duped into buying products that aren't for them by the percieved wisdom that DSLRs are 'better'. With a DSLR your're buying potential, NOT ability. The reason why DSLRs are capable of producing better images than almost any compact is their felxibility, they require effort and skill because they leave it up to the photographer.
The photographer's brain is an infinately better image processor than a cheap silicon chip. The image qulity of a DSLR comes from your ability to percieve the world not the cameras. Have a low key or very high key subject and a P&S will struggle, a DSLR will struggle less but my brain doesn't struggle at all. I can far more easily overide a DSLR and apply my brain's 'settings' to a DSLR than I can with a P&S.
However, maybe I don't want to do this all the time so I stick it on auto or pick up a P&S. As I say they are complimentary not replacements for each other.
The K10D assumes its users will want to control more often so it produces JPEGS that are 'duller' to give you more room to manoeuver. If this isn't what one wants perhaps a bridge camera is a better idea.
--
http://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucsacco/
Well all people are saying is that it can't be a fault of the camera because the camera was not meant to be that way. Niether is it the fault of the OP because she obviously bought the wrong camera.
YOU CAN get those types of JPEGs using post-processing though but again obviously the OP wants out of the camera JPEGs. But you can't blame the camera for this, in the same way that you can't blame an F1 car for not being able to go over speed bumps.
--
http://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucsacco/
Mark Prinz
Senior Member
You can if that's what you're judging your car choice by. What I mean is, while it might not necessarily be an inherent problem with the camera, it is a problem for the OP. I don't see it as a fault. You obviously don't see it as a fault. But the OP does, because there is a different set of criteria to judge it by.
--
http://www.photobird.com/prinz/
http://mutedphotos.deviantart.com/
No, because your choice of car was wrong, not the car itself (not that you can actually buy an F1 as a city runabout....)
But of course, I agree wih your sentiment. Although if I was being cruel I would say the fault was really with her choice. This is not meant as a personal attack or anything like that AT ALL. I think this could easily get into a discussion about relativism!
But, as you say, the bottom line is the camera is not the camera for her and she should look elsewhere. And thats the point. The K10D does not do what she wants out of the box, and that's what matters to her.
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http://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucsacco/
DLBlack
Forum Pro
Very well stated.
Mark Prinz
Senior Member
Robert Chow
Senior Member
Can you not accept the simple truth that bad pictures are the fault fo the equipment, not the photographer? This is the marketing doctrine that camera makers have been feeding us for years. Do not injury your vanity by assuming that you lack talent, experience, aesthetic eye and all those other things you can neither be picked up in a camera shop nor delivered to your door.
Crappy pictures? Buy an L Series/Limited/* lens. Buy a new camera. A different brand. It's not your fault, it's your inferior equipment.
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rc
Crappy pictures? Buy an L Series/Limited/* lens. Buy a new camera. A different brand. It's not your fault, it's your inferior equipment.
--
rc
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