Fine vs Std ...

I detect a slight difference and I'd bet on which is which in all of them. BUT, the difference is very small. My 2 Euro's worth.

--
Busch

Take the scenic route! Life is too short to do otherwise.

http://www.pbase.com/busch
 
.. wasn't this test meant to be judged by "your eyes only"? It's like going to a museum analyzing the beauty of paintings by software and not by heart and soul.
 
... Good point. When we get to 'extreme' pixel peeping it seems a little bit not to be photography anymore, doesn't it. Anyway, as much as for anyone else, I did this to see the results for myself.

I'm actually surprised at the big difference in file sizes with very little difference in viewed image.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.
http://www.pixplanet.biz
http://pixplanet.fotki.com
 
L, R, L, L.

I like my steak medium, please. ;-)

--
Busch

Take the scenic route! Life is too short to do otherwise.

http://www.pbase.com/busch
 
Hmmm my eyes say ...

Pic 1: Right one is 'Fine'
Pic 2: Right one is 'Fine'
Pic 3: Left one is 'Fine'
Pic 4: Left one is 'Fine'

--
  • Raghuveer
 
You bring the steaks and I'll bring some great Mosel wine. ;-)

--
Busch

Take the scenic route! Life is too short to do otherwise.

http://www.pbase.com/busch
 
I've never been able to tell by looking on the screen. The only reason I use the higher quality one is in case I get that one in a hundred shot that I want to blow up very large in print. :)

Olga
 
The compression issue never really bothered me because I thought the out-of-camera photo would be drastically different - though I could imagine a few slight areas of difference here or there.

What bothers me, and maybe some other people here, is how much the more-compressed H9 output can withstand post-processing and resaving or cropping before it begins to seriously degrade? I don't know that answer - so I'm not making a statement for or against the camera...but just know that some of the debate over the loss of 'fine' vs 'standard' mode has to do with the higher compression compromising the photo's ability to be edited.

The output from my 717 is excellent, as is the output from my H5. Both were always set to 'fine' mode. However, the 2bpp of the 717 vs the 8bpp of the H5 was a bit of a mystery to me. I wish I could determine if this 'bpp' is a factor in the editing process - but what I do know is that my H5 photos are significantly more editable than my 717 photos. And not just in the extra crop room (which is nice)...where the 717 photos seem to break down faster is with color separation. Take a blue sky. Go into Photoshop, and do 'levels' to improve the contrast. With my 717 shots, there was a very low threshhold of adjustment possible before the sky would begin to visibly break down into banding of colors. With my H5 shots, they can withstand significantly more extreme adjustments before the banding begins.

With the H9 saving at a much lower bpp than the H5, I worry that the editing of the photos might be more touchy like the 717, and color separation and banding could be an issue when editing.

And I worry that the more compressed output won't hold up as well to, say, three resaves. While I know 3 resaves is never an advisable thing to do - sometimes it just may happen. Maybe the photo is opened in a noise filter software, run, and saved. Then reopened in Photoshop, processed, and saved. Then maybe down the road, you want to edit something out of that photo without running through the entire noise & PS process on the original, so you try opening the saved processed copy, edit it, and save again. Even at max jpeg quality, will the photo begin to suffer artifacting or jaggies or color separation & banding after 3 resaves? I don't know - but that's where my worry lies.

And then there's just the principle of the thing - Sonys have always had it, this one was specified to have it, and when the camera gets there, it doesn't have it. I don't think anyone likes to have options and control taken away from them, especially if they've always had it before. Restoring the CHOICE to H9 owners would go a long way to improving Sony's reputation, and help silence some of the critics and cure some of the doubt. If the Fine mode has the side-effect of slowing down the burst mode...so what? I think Sony users are capable of choosing Fine & slow burst for less compressed photos, or Standard and fast burst, but with higher compression. The situation can dictate which you decide to use.

Anyway...your test can serve other purposes - maybe help people see that the differences are minor with regards to compression between the two modes. I always err in favor of the best possible setting on any camera. I just don't want the other side of the complaint or disappointment to get lost in the comparison - that it isn't about the IQ out of camera, it's about the ability to post-process and crop, and the choice being taken away.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

(I'd be honored and overjoyed to have any of my posted photographs critiqued, commented on, or post-processed - I can attribute everything I know about photography to the wonderful people who have done this for me in the past!)
 
I agree with your analysis and your concerns 100%.

I have seen little of the compression artifacts some people are seeing, but have the same long-term concerns about PP. Sometimes I come back a year later and the last thing I wish to do is try to create the PP steps again from scratch and am concerned about degradation from "resaves".

But, more important, I really don't like fewer choices in any of my equipment. I do like new and effective "automated" modes, but always want the option to turn them off and see if I can do better under my own unique circumstances. Often, I can.

So, I'm all for Sony restoring the Fine/Standard choice.

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper
 
What bothers me, and maybe some other people here, is how much the
more-compressed H9 output can withstand post-processing and
resaving or cropping before it begins to seriously degrade? I
don't know that answer - so I'm not making a statement for or
against the camera...but just know that some of the debate over the
loss of 'fine' vs 'standard' mode has to do with the higher
compression compromising the photo's ability to be edited.
If I took a Canon 5D image that looked as bad as an H9 image at 100% magnification and tried to print it or resize it, it would still look BAD when printed or resized.

I can take an H9 (wide angle) image that looks bad at 100% and resize it or print it (I've only tried to print up to 8.5x11), and it looks good.

OTOH, and don't ask me what made me do it, I took one of DPR's H2 landscape samples and upsized it to 8MP. It looked exactly like an H9 image at 100%.

Olga
 

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