SB800 Flash goes off on its own when mounted to D200

krazykarma1

New member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Broomfield, CO, US
I have a D200 which I shoot weddings with and have noticed that my SB 800 flash will just go off while it is being carried....I have made sure that the model light function is set to off. I have also checked to see if there any other Nion users in the room that might have their cameras set to remote and that was not the case....Any one else have this problem?
 
Unfortunately, this seems to be a problem with the D200 and the SB-800. The problem is that there is a slight wobble, which triggers these pre-flashes at any time. I sent both my D200 and my SB-800 in for repair. They sent my D200 back and repaired my SB-800. Sorry to have to tell you, but you'll have to mail an expensive parcel back to Nikon for repair.

Bryan
--

'I like beer. On occasion I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall
of communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working' Dave Barry

http://www.bappelt.smugmug.com
 
I must say thanks for this information as I use Fuji's S5 and as this body is D200, the same problem is happening to the S5 sometimes and I was surprised that the flash fires without even touching the camera or the lens or the flahs....
So I am going to call Nikon to ask them. Thanks for the information.
 
I have noticed the wobble on the flash and wondered if it was just because my flash had been in use for a year....thanks for the info. That tells me what I need to do.
 
My D200/SB-800 combo just started to do this only occasionally and only very recently. At first, I thought it was something with the shutter release button, but then I started to suspect that it could be something loose in the mount.

Since both are out of warranty, and it’s only happened a few times, I think I’ll wait to send them in. But if it gets bad, I’ll do it sooner. Works great otherwise.

--

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
 
and whatever the Nikon flash du jour was then. Carrying the camera around with the weight of the flash dangling out there can deform the rails on the hot shoe. Also, the little leaf spring pieces seem to age. Wobbles, then flashes. I took it to a repair shop and they did a very inelegant repair process - small soft hammer, a few taps on the shoe... They also bent the spring clips up a bit.

Haven't had it yet with my d2x or d80, but I hardly ever use the flash in the shoe these days, always on a long cord and off camera.
 
From all of the complaints I've seen about this behavior on both the SB600 and SB800, it would appear to be a manufacturer defect. However, Nikon won't cop to it.

So even if your speedlight is out of warranty, I would call Nikon and insist that they repair it for gratis.

My story: my SB600 starting firing randomly while on the hotshoe of both my D50 and D200. It also wobbles on both. Then it started turning on automatically, when placed on the hotshoe, even though the speedlight and cam were turned off. Finally, the LED starting blinking constantly.

Long story short: I shipped it off to Nikon for warranty repairs. 2 weeks later they sent it back...after 2 minutes on both of my cams, it started flashing randomly again. I sent it back to Nikon again, and just got it back again yesterday...still testing it, but it appears to be problem free.

Worse of all, in my original description of the problem, I told Nikon that it wobbled on the hotshoe of both my cams. But they didn't do anything about it. Now, it still wobbles, but according to the repair order, they did replace the mount. It is a little tighter now, but still looser than I'd like.

One important note, b4 sending it back a second time they wanted me to send in my D200 along with it, UNTIL, I told them it flashed randomly and wobbled on my D50 too. If anyone is considering having Nikon repair this issue, I wouldn't give up your cam for 2 weeks over this problem...

--james

PHOTOGRAPHS:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=158378
 
I forgot to mention that my SB-800 was almost a full year out of warranty when I sent it in. They repaired it for free. I think Nikon is aware of this problem and are possibly repairing them for free. It never hurts to ask.

Bryan
--

'I like beer. On occasion I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall
of communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working' Dave Barry

http://www.bappelt.smugmug.com
 
James, it has happened with Nikons going back probably before the f100 (that's nearly 10 years ago) and it happens with Canon too. (That I know for sure from some of my colleagues' experience.) So it's not a manufacturer defect - or at least not a Nikon only defect - but a design choice.

If you think about it, it's an insane idea to hang over a pound of weight off of a tiny slip-in shoe with less than an inch of holding surface, but what we have is a legacy technology (hot shoes were only used for little flashes in the past) with a professional demand (wanting to use a hot shoe for decidedly heavy flashes.) Mount the flash on your camera, hold your camera lens downwards, and tell me if it doesn't look like the kind of thing no sane person would do. That's over a pound of weight dangling unsupported from less than an inch of clamp area. Making it dangle proof would probably add a half pound to the camera, and involve connection points in addition to the hotshoe. Please, please, Nikon, don't do that! Or they could stop making big flashes. Nah.

No sane person would mount the 200-400 zoom on their camera and then carry the combo by the camera body with the lens dangling. But we do something even crazier with our flash.

I can tell you with perfect certainty - get your heavy flashes off on a flash bracket where they belong, and you won't ever have the loose shoe problem. I had problems with both of my f100s, and both d100s. Now I don't use the hot shoe for mounting unless I don't have my flash bracket and can't spare a hand to hold the flash to the side, and if I do mount on the hotshoe, I never carry lens down with the weight of the flash dangling out unsupported. Neither d2x has had problems, nor has my d80.

Your lighting will look better, too.
From all of the complaints I've seen about this behavior on both
the SB600 and SB800, it would appear to be a manufacturer defect.
However, Nikon won't cop to it.
 
I just looked up the weight on my old potato masher style flashes, back in the days when any flash that mounted on your camera was considered a sign of you being a rank amateur. Real photographers had potato masher shaped flashes! No real photographer would ever mount to a hotshoe - PC cables only! My Honeywell unit, which I thought was really heavy, weighed less than the sb800 does with the fifth battery in place. Sheesh, what a crazy thing, we're hanging more weight from a smaller mounting point.
 
Being new to photography, only active for about 6 years, this explanation never occurred to me. It's the first alternative to Nikon bashing I've read. I attributed my problems similar to those described in this thread, to an inherently defective mounting design. That may have been half correct, but not forthe reasons I was imagining.

But I do have a question. I have looked at flash brackets. It appears to me that the are just a hot shoe on a post. What is different about that in terms of problems of the fash unit "wobbling?" It is still heavy piece of hardware connected to "less than an inch" of holding bracket and connectors. Am I mising something about the advantage to a bracket? Isn't there a need to design a better clamping system to keep the contacts firmly in touch with one another as the connecting hardware wears with use?

I want to know.

Keith
 
The flash is pretty heavy. My d80 weighs 1.5 pounds, without a lens. So, take a box that's as strong as you can afford to make it, within that weight limit, and hang two pounds of lens off the front of it (most of my lenses weigh more than that) and a pound and an eigth or pound and a quarter (the type of batteries you use makes a big difference in weight) off the top of the box. Even thinking D2x - the fact is that you're hanging a lot of weight off of a flat surface, on a box shape which is NOT one of the strongest shapes for resisting surface torque, by a really small point of contact.

I'm sure no one would develop a wobble on their flash if they never let their camera hang lens down with the flash mounted - all the force would be straight up and down through the mounting point. When you hang it sideways, you've now got a pound of static torque (I'm not an engineer... maybe it's not called static torque) but basic physics, gravity sucks and it's sucking the pound of flash perpendicular to the mount, which creates a twisting force. (Stick your feet into a solid brace and try to hang parallel to the ground and you'll experience it personally as your ankles snap.) Now walk around with it (bounce, bounce, bounce) and now you're shaking the joint between the flash and the camera with each step, probably two or three pounds of torque forces. Ooops, bumped the wall accidentally, take THAT hotshoe. (I did one of my D100 from solid to jiggle once with one solid wall hit.)

Measure those two little strips on the top of the hotshoe, calculate the area. That's the area of surface holding over a pound in place.

I'm sure Nikon could reinforce the daylights out of the hotshoe, but it wouldn't matter much unless you made the bottom of the mounting point on the flash a lot bigger, to spread the load; made the flash a lot stiffer and braced it to spread its weight over the larger space; and then braced the camera and reinforced the hot shoe to spread the weight. I don't want that camera.

If you never let the flash dangle off the top of the camera, it's probably a non issue, or if you use a flash that was designed when the hotshoe was designed (I've got a few of those cute little buggers for my old fixed lens rangefinder cameras) it'd be a non issue.

Flash brackets attach not to two thin metal strips on the top of the hotshoe, but to the tripod socket on the bottom of your camera. That socket is designed to take a lot of torque, relatively speaking. Good flash brackets also make contact with the bottom of your camera for at least a two inch square area, spreading the stress over a large area. I have one that actually runs the width of the camera, and it feels a lot more secure and balanced and manouverable than the one that has a two inch square connection pad. The weight of your flash will stress the metal on the bracket, not your camera, and not that tiny little hot shoe.

I think it would also be useful to think about this: If you get a big force at an angle against the flash, do you want it to break the foot of the flash, rip the hotshoe off the camera, or take the prism off... I'll bet somebody calculated how weak to make the attachment points of the hot shoe to the camera body so that you don't rip the top off the camera. And how weak to make the foot on the flash. Breakaway! Which will wobble if subjected to enough sub-breakaway forces enough times.

I'm definitely not saying hot shoes on Nikons with big heavy flashes isn't a bad design. It most certainly is, but it's a bad design on all cameras, and really should be treated as a seldom-used stress point. If you make a living shooting weddings, you're definitely asking way more from a hot shoe than you probably should - and getting awful lighting compared to what you would with the flash off camera, besides.
Being new to photography, only active for about 6 years, this
explanation never occurred to me. It's the first alternative to
Nikon bashing I've read. I attributed my problems similar to those
described in this thread, to an inherently defective mounting
design. That may have been half correct, but not forthe reasons I
was imagining.

But I do have a question. I have looked at flash brackets. It
appears to me that the are just a hot shoe on a post. What is
different about that in terms of problems of the fash unit
"wobbling?" It is still heavy piece of hardware connected to "less
than an inch" of holding bracket and connectors. Am I mising
something about the advantage to a bracket? Isn't there a need to
design a better clamping system to keep the contacts firmly in
touch with one another as the connecting hardware wears with use?

I want to know.

Keith
 
Mine was doing this, I sent it in and my SB800 to http://www.authorizedphoto.com/ and they called and said it was a circuit board on my D200. They repaired it and I got it back a few weeks ago, it works A-ok after they replaced that board. Repair with shipping was around 300 dollars, ouch! I'd sure rather have bought some more photo gear with that money.
 
I'm sure no one would develop a wobble on their flash if they never
let their camera hang lens down with the flash mounted - all the
force would be straight up and down through the mounting point.
When you hang it sideways, you've now got a pound of static torque
(I'm not an engineer... maybe it's not called static torque) but
basic physics, gravity sucks and it's sucking the pound of flash
perpendicular to the mount, which creates a twisting force. (Stick
your feet into a solid brace and try to hang parallel to the ground
and you'll experience it personally as your ankles snap.) Now walk
around with it (bounce, bounce, bounce) and now you're shaking the
joint between the flash and the camera with each step, probably two
or three pounds of torque forces. Ooops, bumped the wall
accidentally, take THAT hotshoe. (I did one of my D100 from solid
to jiggle once with one solid wall hit.)

Measure those two little strips on the top of the hotshoe,
calculate the area. That's the area of surface holding over a
pound in place.

I'm sure Nikon could reinforce the daylights out of the hotshoe,
but it wouldn't matter much unless you made the bottom of the
mounting point on the flash a lot bigger, to spread the load; made
the flash a lot stiffer and braced it to spread its weight over the
larger space; and then braced the camera and reinforced the hot
shoe to spread the weight. I don't want that camera.

If you never let the flash dangle off the top of the camera, it's
probably a non issue, or if you use a flash that was designed when
the hotshoe was designed (I've got a few of those cute little
buggers for my old fixed lens rangefinder cameras) it'd be a non
issue.

Flash brackets attach not to two thin metal strips on the top of
the hotshoe, but to the tripod socket on the bottom of your camera.
That socket is designed to take a lot of torque, relatively
speaking. Good flash brackets also make contact with the bottom of
your camera for at least a two inch square area, spreading the
stress over a large area. I have one that actually runs the width
of the camera, and it feels a lot more secure and balanced and
manouverable than the one that has a two inch square connection
pad. The weight of your flash will stress the metal on the
bracket, not your camera, and not that tiny little hot shoe.

I think it would also be useful to think about this: If you get a
big force at an angle against the flash, do you want it to break
the foot of the flash, rip the hotshoe off the camera, or take the
prism off... I'll bet somebody calculated how weak to make the
attachment points of the hot shoe to the camera body so that you
don't rip the top off the camera. And how weak to make the foot on
the flash. Breakaway! Which will wobble if subjected to enough
sub-breakaway forces enough times.

I'm definitely not saying hot shoes on Nikons with big heavy
flashes isn't a bad design. It most certainly is, but it's a bad
design on all cameras, and really should be treated as a
seldom-used stress point. If you make a living shooting weddings,
you're definitely asking way more from a hot shoe than you probably
should - and getting awful lighting compared to what you would with
the flash off camera, besides.
Being new to photography, only active for about 6 years, this
explanation never occurred to me. It's the first alternative to
Nikon bashing I've read. I attributed my problems similar to those
described in this thread, to an inherently defective mounting
design. That may have been half correct, but not forthe reasons I
was imagining.

But I do have a question. I have looked at flash brackets. It
appears to me that the are just a hot shoe on a post. What is
different about that in terms of problems of the fash unit
"wobbling?" It is still heavy piece of hardware connected to "less
than an inch" of holding bracket and connectors. Am I mising
something about the advantage to a bracket? Isn't there a need to
design a better clamping system to keep the contacts firmly in
touch with one another as the connecting hardware wears with use?

I want to know.

Keith
Sorry, but I can't agree. Practically speaking, there is no difference from a defect and a design flaw. The current sb600 was not designed to flash randomly, regardless of the reason for it doing so, so it is defective, i.e., it does not do what it was designed to do, or in this case, not do.

Moreover, the sb600 only weighs 10.6 ounces, and the hotshoe connection is sufficient to support that kind of weight, PROVIDED, the connection is sufficiently tight. But the connection isn't tight. And my sb600 wobbled on both my D50 and D200 from day one, so it's not the result of gravity, from dangling the unit.

--james

PHOTOGRAPHS:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=158378
 
I was talking about the legal definitions, not the emotional ones. And legally, it wouldn't even be a design flaw since it's designed the way everybody else does it.

You could always buy another camera brand and see if it's only Nikon that sucks. Given the complaints in other camera forums about the same kind of thing, I think you will be disappointed but it might be worth your effort.

More important consideration though is that the worst possible place for your flash, other than pointing up at a subject, is on the top of your camera aligned with the lens. No depth to an image. The reason it seems to work for macros is because the flash is at a very acute angle vs a macro subject, so you get down shadows, but macro shots with the flash to the side of a subject have a completely different, more alive look to them. Take better pictures, have no repairs.
Ednaz wrote:

Sorry, but I can't agree. Practically speaking, there is no
difference from a defect and a design flaw. The current sb600 was
not designed to flash randomly, regardless of the reason for it
doing so, so it is defective, i.e., it does not do what it was
designed to do, or in this case, not do.

Moreover, the sb600 only weighs 10.6 ounces, and the hotshoe
connection is sufficient to support that kind of weight, PROVIDED,
the connection is sufficiently tight. But the connection isn't
tight. And my sb600 wobbled on both my D50 and D200 from day one,
so it's not the result of gravity, from dangling the unit.

--james

PHOTOGRAPHS:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=158378
 
Legal, emotional, or any other way you put it, both my well used SB600 and brand spanking new SB800 wobbled, the 600 far more, in my brand new D200 hotshoe. I agree that a hotshoe on camera is not the the best angle from which to throw light at a subject. But my argument is that some flash units are loose in the hot shoe when new, and get looser with use. It seems to me that even on a bracket, unless the means of clamping the unit in place was designed to overcome increasing looseness over time, the same problem is likely to occurr whether mounted on the camera or on a bracket.

I am convinced that using the flash to the side of the camera on a bracket is better photographically, but if the mounts and means of securing the flash unit in place are not tighter, the bracket will not solve the problem of spontaneous floashes caused by the loose fit.

As for bad circuit board in the D200, could that have been caused by the loose fitting flash uint and bad resulting connections, rather than the other way around?

Keith
 
I think it would also be useful to think about this: If you get a
big force at an angle against the flash, do you want it to break
the foot of the flash, rip the hotshoe off the camera, or take the
prism off... I'll bet somebody calculated how weak to make the
attachment points of the hot shoe to the camera body so that you
don't rip the top off the camera. And how weak to make the foot on
the flash. Breakaway! Which will wobble if subjected to enough
sub-breakaway forces enough times.

I'm definitely not saying hot shoes on Nikons with big heavy
flashes isn't a bad design. It most certainly is, but it's a bad
design on all cameras, and really should be treated as a
seldom-used stress point. If you make a living shooting weddings,
you're definitely asking way more from a hot shoe than you probably
should - and getting awful lighting compared to what you would with
the flash off camera, besides.

The problem is not that the hot shoe becomes loose from the torque of a dangling flash unit. The problem is that the two parts of the hot shoe mechanism don't tightly connect in the first place, and/or loosen with time, perhaps from dangling or possible from merely attaching and reattaching causing wear. It makes no difference whether the two parts are mounted on camera and flash unit, or flash unit and bracket. It is the connection beteewn them that appears to be the reason for random firing in many cases.
My sb600 is unusable on my d200 but works flawlessly on the used d70 I recently purchased to use as a second body. The only apparent difference is that there is an extreem wobble on the d200, but only a slight wobble on the d70. My newer sb800 has a slight wobble on the d200 and has only rarely emitted a randome flash. But I am expecting the problem to increase with use. I hope I am wrong.

Keith
 
I am a camera repairman and know that the manufacturers could make a solid connection between the flash and camera body, but this would cause the top cover hot shoe to get ripped off every time a photographer makes a clumsy move and smacks the flash unit into a wall, door frame, etc. The design is a safety valve to cut down the cost of repairs, because accidents are going to happen in the chase of that perfect picture.

Today, I looked at a Nikon F-100, D1x, D2h and tried my 3 SB-800s and 2 SB-600 flash units on the bodies. All the flashes mated to the camera bodies with very little if any play. When your flash unit is attached to the camera and the flash unit has a lot of wobble, something is loose or coming apart. Check the camera hot-shoe for loose play. The screws that mount it to the top cover could be loose. You would be amazed at how many photographers don't want to admit that they did physical damage to their gear by dropping it or being heavy handed in attaching or removing lenses, flash units, etc. and forcing something.
 
I am a camera repairman and know that the manufacturers could make
a solid connection between the flash and camera body, but this
would cause the top cover hot shoe to get ripped off every time a
photographer makes a clumsy move and smacks the flash unit into a
wall, door frame, etc. The design is a safety valve to cut down
the cost of repairs, because accidents are going to happen in the
chase of that perfect picture.

Today, I looked at a Nikon F-100, D1x, D2h and tried my 3 SB-800s
and 2 SB-600 flash units on the bodies. All the flashes mated to
the camera bodies with very little if any play. When your flash
unit is attached to the camera and the flash unit has a lot of
wobble, something is loose or coming apart. Check the camera
hot-shoe for loose play. The screws that mount it to the top cover
could be loose. You would be amazed at how many photographers
don't want to admit that they did physical damage to their gear by
dropping it or being heavy handed in attaching or removing lenses,
flash units, etc. and forcing something.
Hi, Jerry,,,

I understand where you are coming from, but in my recent experience, as previously stated, first, my sb600 fit loosely on both my D50 and D200 when all were new, out of the box. Moreover, after the second trip to Nkon for repair, the repair order indicated that they replaced the mount, which, although not perfect, does fit much more snugly, so, in my case, I can't attribute the wobble to the hotshoe coming loose. Btw, after a day of testing, after replacing the mount, I have yet to experience a random flash....

--
james

PHOTOGRAPHS:
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=158378
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top