Fuji S1 and S2 Pro versus Nikon D1X

For the moment I posses a Fuji S1 Pro and I like it very much but I use it for my profession and need regularly photos that go in offset printing. Regularly the file size doesn't match the format of the reproduction, A4 and bigger. So I'm very curious about test images from the S2 Pro. I downloaded 2 images taken with the Nikon D1X (which give not a very big difference in image quality as I can see on this site), but I interpolated both images, starting from the JPEG's that I downloaded to a Tiff file of 52 MB and 84 MB and I must stay that the image quality stays at a very high level. If I do the same with my Fuji S1 images the quality at that sizes are'nt half as good as the Nikon images. So I think that Fuji pushes the images at a maximum and Nikon let's a lot of space to push the images to higher sizes. Is there someone who own both cameras and compare them ? I like to buy a new camera and are very curious about the S2 and also the Nikon 100. The quality of the body is not of a big importance to me, only the image quality and size is what's interesting me the most.

Dirk--Dirk

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Is there someone who own both cameras and
compare them ?

Click to expand...

I did have the S1 Pro for a while but give it back to Fuji by several problems. Now I do have a D1X.

Images are more smooth and sharp. You dove have much more spare to manipulate the images that the S1. Specially using NEF files (and Nikon Capture) boost the usage of the camera enormous.

Dirk Vermeirre said:

I like to buy a new camera and are very curious
about the S2 and also the Nikon 100. The quality of the body is not
of a big importance to me, only the image quality and size is
what's interesting me the most.

Click to expand...

If the quality of the body is of less importance, I should wait for test-results of Fuji S2 en Nikon D100.

Keep in mind the bad usage of old Nikon lenses (no light measurement) and the bad fill-in flash posibilities with those bodies. I think the Nikon D100 is better ergonomic design (better usage of batteries).--Leon Obers

Thanks Leon for the information. I try not to use flashlight and I'm using two sets with softlight (6x55W daylight 4500K fluorescent tubes) and with older lenses I use my Variosix and the M mode, but 95% of the time I use new lenses. I find the D1X a bit high priced, specially because I'm thinking about buying 2 new digital SLR's (so that I don't have to change lenses all the time and to avoid dust on my ccd). I have different persons who want to buy my S1 and I would have as soon as possible new cameras but the problem to decide is that I can't find samples of the Nikon 100 or S2.

Do you think that there is a possibility that the image quality of the Nikon 100 would be that of the Nikon D1X ? If so I think I must go for the Nikon.

Dirk--Dirk

Dear Dirk,

There is no question, as you say, that the results from the D1X are superior to the Fuji S1. I only had the Fuji S1 to try out for a day but I used the D1X daily for a month. From time to time a D1X image could be soft .

My own view would be to buy a D1X; it is in a different league. The Nikon D100 will be a long time before it appears and even then it is not meant as a pro body. If everyone thinks it is wonderful then you can buy a D100, but you know that it is wise to let a new camera be in the market for a few months before you buy one.

With all its problems at least the Nikon D1x has had time to settle down, and it should hold its value well - at least til a D2 comes out.

I have both Nikon and Canon glass and bodies and at the moment I would firmly opt for the D1X. When Canon gets its act together then maybe the pendulum will swing back to Canon. If it helps, and inmo, the D1X is miles ahead of the D30. You will never love the D1X; it is only a tool unlike the truly beautiful Eos 1 bodies but the D1X will keep you going for at least a year.

Personally I want a 602.
sincerely
jerome Y
http://www.jy-photo.co.uk

Dear Jerome,

Thanks for your information. I have only Nikon lenses (a lot) and no Canon, so Canon cameras are out of question. On the other hand I don't think I need a Pro body (D1X), I only take snapshots, landscapes and product shots from time to time, photography is not my business, I'm a graphic designer. And untill now I buy new camera's about every 6 months. I think I prefer to buy two D100's rather than D1X or maybe 2 S2's Pro. Do you know if the image quality of the D100 would be that of the D1X ?

Dirk Vermeirre--Dirk

Dirk Vermeirre said:

I have different persons who want to buy my S1 and I
would have as soon as possible new cameras but the problem to
decide is that I can't find samples of the Nikon 100 or S2.

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If the images are available in an early stage, you wil find them on dpreview. Just wait. You are talking about "as soon as possible". I think it takes too much time to wait for the D100 or S2, if you need it soon. Probably those camera's are sold within a few months to a half year.

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Do you think that there is a possibility that the image quality of
the Nikon 100 would be that of the Nikon D1X ?

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I think yes for sharness. It is a real 2000x3000 pixel CCD, not the D1X (interpolated in one direction to 1960). But you have to see what the other characteristics shall be: Dynamic range, color, noise, banding noise.

In general, the more tiny pixels that you have, the more bad dynamic range, color, noise etc.

You can improve by better software "behind" the shot, so it could be compensated for a certain amount, but it is not a guarantee it is compensated in the same amount that the pixels are more "bad". So seeing test results is very important to make a choice.

If you can not wait, better to buy one expensive D1X than two digital camera's for the same amount as one D1X that have both less professional technique than one D1X.--Leon Obers

It is a real 2000x3000 pixel CCD, not the

Member said:

D1X (interpolated in one direction to 1960). But you have to see
what the other characteristics shall be: Dynamic range, color,
noise, banding noise.

Click to expand...

Thanks Leon,

There's something I don't understand very good, do they have the same CCD ? Are'nt the horizontal pixels doubled on the D100, only with the D1X ? I think I must wait to have some sample images from those cameras before I can decide what to buy. I find it very frustratiing that they announce new cameras and that we have to wait then for six months or more before we can get one.
--Dirk

dirk,
You are a graphic designer not a photo journalist; you don't need two bodies.

Leon is absolutely right; buy the D1X . It will make your S1 feel stupid, and i'm sure we won't see D100s in reasonable quantities until August September - by which time photokina will be upon us and you will be wanting a D2.

The D100 is not going to be a pro camera, period. As I said i have no love for the D1X but I have had perfectly fine near A4 images reproduced in glossy magazines from it. Believe me, you wouldn't regret it. If you are not careful your ideal camera will be forever out of reach. Can you not hire a D1X for a day or at least take some shots in a pro camera store with studio flash?

how about a synch speed of a 500th of a second; the D100's is 180th - so it is useless for weddings or fashion unless you are on a tripod or a monopod.
believe me there will always be newer D1Xs but the D100 will always be amateur.

On a sad note I took a studio head shot of my mum in january 2001 with the test Fuji S1. to my eyes she was gentle and very beautiful. She died very quickly from two heart attacks on Sept 13th and I will never get over it because she was wonderful mum and all my family and the Fuji S1 shot was the last formal headshot I took of her. I thought she would live forever. Sorry, off topic
sincerely
jerome y

Thanks Jerome,

I think that I'm convinced. I can hire the D1X and that's what a gonna do, if I buy it after hiring it, it's reduced from the price when I buy it. Maybe that I buy a D2 then after the Photokina. OK I'm not a photo journalist but I hate to change lenses for two reasons, one for the dus problem and the second that in that time I can miss an image that I absolutely want. I find it a bit bizarre that many people on this Fuji SLR forum are convinced users of the D1X. I must say that in the time that I buy my S1 the D1X does'nt exist and the 1D was not wat I wanted. Did you see my S1 pictures on this site ?

Also off topic, I want to say that I feel sorry your lost your wonderful mum and I think I know what you feel, I lost my wonderful mum last month. I make a little offset printed booklet of 20 pages with fotos of my wonderful mom to give to my family and friends, that was the last thing that I could do for her.
Sincerly,

--Dirk

Dirk Vermeirre said:

There's something I don't understand very good, do they have the
same CCD ?

Click to expand...

No, the new D100 has another CCD with real 2000x3000 pixels. But because the chip size is not more big (same dimensions), the individual pixels are more tiny.

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Are'nt the horizontal pixels doubled on the D100, only
with the D1X ?

Click to expand...

Not on D100, yes on D1X (not doubled but 1324 to 1960 pixels).

But don't have wrong thoughts by this strange height/width dimensions of the pixel size of a D1X. OK it is not as sharp in vertical direction (short side) if you look the images at 200%, but this strange dimensions and the interpolation afterwards to 3000x1960 of the D1X do have a very good influence to color-artifacts, noise and noise banding. I think the D1X has the most less color-artifacts, and noisebanding at this moment of all digital camera's in this pricetag. It gives very nice smooth and film-alike pictures.

Every design has it's advantages and disadvantages. I think the D1X is the best balance out of it. I even worked with a Kodak 760 for a couple of hours, but the tiny better sharpness (by the real 2000x3000 pixels), is over shadowed by a much more heavy weight of the camera, specially anoying when using the camera vertical, bad placing of the rear round arrow botton (at the back), more color-artifacts. Better to have a D1X.

--Leon Obers

Dirk Vermeirre said:

I find it a bit bizarre
that many people on this Fuji SLR forum are convinced users of the
D1X.

Click to expand...

I had the Fuji S1 for 9 months, and did have many troubles with it. See (outdated pages already):
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/Fuji_S1/index.htm
I changed to the D1X and never regret it.

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Also off topic, I want to say that I feel sorry your lost your
wonderful mum and I think I know what you feel, I lost my wonderful
mum last month.

Click to expand...

Dirk and Jerome, both of you I want to give my sympathy to your feelings. Let all the nice things that you can remember to your mums, the joy, the talkings, the habits, the holidays, give you the strenght to go further in life and broaden your inside as human being with those memorys.
--Leon Obers

Leon,

Thank you for your good information and your symphaty. I found the information you mentioned last night on the net and I must say what an excellent documentation of your S1 problems. Where do you find the time to do all that work ? Do you have a website Leon where I can see photos from you ? I found a website with photos from a French photographer at this address: http://perso.club-internet.fr/destri/menu.htm
I like them very much, what's your opinion ?

Thanks,--Dirk

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Where do you find
the time to do all that work ?

Click to expand...

Necessary to convince Fuji and help other users with the same problems.

By writing about these problems, and publish them to the web, it helps to change the philosophy of Fuji to take care of better quality control and give better service when users do have those problems.
After 9 months I got a full refund (tey could not fix the autofocus problem).
Another possitive attitude you can find here:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=2318069

Dirk Vermeirre said:

Do you have a website Leon where I
can see photos from you ?

Click to expand...

Not specially a photographic website with a range of digital photos as a sort of portfolio. But some example photo's in combination to the subject of "scanning" you can find here. (go to "examples").
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/Umax/index.htm
Some old pages about Photo-CD
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/nl/2_Photo/fotofram.htm
A 8x10 inch slide scanned at a flatbed (notice the red circle):



The detail out of the red circle:

Dirk Vermeirre said:

I found a website with photos from a
French photographer at this address:
http://perso.club-internet.fr/destri/menu.htm
I like them very much, what's your opinion ?

Click to expand...

Great pictures.--Leon Obers

Dear Dirk and Leon,
Thank you for your sympathy, and Dirk, I am sorry about your loss.

It has been nearly six months now but I still find myself crying almost every day. Everything can be replaced except your loved ones. I just hope that the religious people are right and there is a heaven and that we shall meet again.

I never believed for a moment that there was anything seriously wrong with my mum even when I took her to hospital with nausea.. She shouldn't have died but she just didn't survive a second heart attack and I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. She was in a coma when I returned and died without waking. I do love her and I am sure you love your mum, Dirk.

i didn't take a quarter of the photographs of her that I should have. There has got to be a heaven because one of the things I have to ask her for is forgiveness for all my wrongheadedness - but I loved her and she loved me and she is more real to me now than anybody living and no I am not going nuts.

I hope you enjoy your D1X Dirk; as I said it should be a quantum leap after the fuji. Try and keep it pristine because you will no doubt want to upgrade after a year. I had to work with a 17-35 and 80-200mm. The newspaper in its wisdom missed out on a 28-70mm. The imaging manager was an utter fool. he tried to save money on the 80-220s by not buying lenshoods - these were lenses that were meant for football in the British climate!. There is a huge gap between 35mm and 80mm in press work.
Best wishes
jerome Y.

Leon Obers said:

Dirk Vermeirre said:

There's something I don't understand very good, do they have the
same CCD ?

Click to expand...

No, the new D100 has another CCD with real 2000x3000 pixels. But
because the chip size is not more big (same dimensions), the
individual pixels are more tiny.

Member said:

Are'nt the horizontal pixels doubled on the D100, only
with the D1X ?

Click to expand...

Not on D100, yes on D1X (not doubled but 1324 to 1960 pixels).
But don't have wrong thoughts by this strange height/width
dimensions of the pixel size of a D1X. OK it is not as sharp in
vertical direction (short side) if you look the images at 200%, but
this strange dimensions and the interpolation afterwards to
3000x1960 of the D1X do have a very good influence to
color-artifacts, noise and noise banding. I think the D1X has the
most less color-artifacts, and noisebanding at this moment of all
digital camera's in this pricetag. It gives very nice smooth and
film-alike pictures.
Every design has it's advantages and disadvantages. I think the D1X
is the best balance out of it. I even worked with a Kodak 760 for a
couple of hours, but the tiny better sharpness (by the real
2000x3000 pixels), is over shadowed by a much more heavy weight of
the camera, specially anoying when using the camera vertical, bad
placing of the rear round arrow botton (at the back), more
color-artifacts. Better to have a D1X.

--
Leon Obers

Click to expand...

Leon,

Im confused by the link you posted to your photos? Are they S1 pics or scans? I guess I am the exception with the S1. I have had no problems with the S1 whatsoever. Im currently getting to 15,000 pics made with the S1 on a IBM 1G Microdrive. Do I have the only Fuji that works?

I also do not fear cleaning the CCD. I bought the expensive swabs with bottle of 'special' methanol cleaner and have no scratches. I purchased the camera from Denny Electra Vision. They suggested the swabs and cleaner and assured me that if I scratched the CCD, they woud replace the camera.

I get the impression you have had nothing but percieved bad values and endless returns of items, not just cameras. Perhaps the Netherlands arent the best place to buy cameras? i dont know....Im just trying to see if you are a Fuji basher, D1X proponent or what. You seem very knowledgeable about digital cam tech so dont get me wrong. I think this forum is great, the regulars on here are smart and people are willing to help. Just trying to see if your posts are more opinion than fact. Thanks!

S

Hi Spear,

I'm another owner of a Fuji S1 that works and I like it very much. However I would buy the Nikon D1X for having images with bigger file sizes. I posted different pictures from my S1 in the galleries and mostly I receive very good reactions.

Regards,

Dirk Vermeirre--Dirk

Dear Jerome,

I feel so sorry for you. I lost my father before (aged 58) and my brother (aged 38). I don't know what age was your lovely mother, my mother was going to be 80 and I must say that I can process it better than with my father or brother because it was more expected this time and the situation where my mother was in was not really worth of living longer and to see that hurts very hard. I hope for you that you can see soon some sunshine in your life and try to think on all the good moments with your mother (that's what I am doing). I also have big problems to process the lost of someone you loved so much. I lose my 2 dogs a year ago and even with them I feeled so sorry and sad, I was even for this men's best friends crying each day for about six months. I could'nt even go to the supermarket because I could'nt stand to see dogfood there. I hope for you that you have enough friends and maybe a lovely wife to encourage you for further living.

Kindly,

Dirk Vermeirre
--Dirk

dear dirk,

thank you for your sympathy; my mother was 81 but looked and acted years younger; her skin was exceptionally good. She was often my model and often for medical or lifestyle shots. on a good day she looked mid 50's. she just wasn't an old woman.

No, I have no family or relatives (or pets) but I did have the best mum in the world.she lived with me. I used to drive her crazy sometimes (wasn't a mummy's boy) and sometimes she could irritate me but I wouldn't have changed her for the world. My difficulty is visiting the market and particularly the fruit stalls we used to visit together; I just break up then, and boy is it lonely without her. I find myself taking to myself - which isn't good.

As to the D1X, it's not so much that you'll get much larger pictures but the images will be sharper, focussing is so much easier and the images look less digital. The camera feels like a professional tool. I have to say that I prefer canon Eos 1 bodies but the canon Eos 1D is not for me. Do be warned though that my guess is that there will be a D2 at Photokina so that should be a huge leap forward. You then would be able to have both.

personally at the moment I just take photos I have to - but as a photojournalist i always take a camera with me and I took a photo of my mum in hospital the day before she died . I thought I would be taking her home in a few days. i am so glad I took the photo

As to dogs, we couldn't really keep dogs when I lived in India. I once had to have half a course of rabies injections (in the stomach) on the merest suggestion that a later rabid dog had brushed past me, for dogs and there is no room in a London flat.
best wishes
jerome Y

Jerome said:

dear dirk,
thank you for your sympathy; my mother was 81 but looked and acted
years younger; her skin was exceptionally good. She was often my
model and often for medical or lifestyle shots. on a good day she
looked mid 50's. she just wasn't an old woman.

No, I have no family or relatives (or pets) but I did have the best
mum in the world.she lived with me. I used to drive her crazy
sometimes (wasn't a mummy's boy) and sometimes she could irritate
me but I wouldn't have changed her for the world. My difficulty is
visiting the market and particularly the fruit stalls we used to
visit together; I just break up then, and boy is it lonely without
her. I find myself taking to myself - which isn't good.

Click to expand...

Dear Jerome,

I really feel sorry for you and it must be hard that you don't have relatives or family to support you. And becaus she lives with you it must be very hard because you can feel that it's so empty without somebody you loves and was always there. We can say that we where very lucky to have such wonderfull mothers, not everyone can say that. Try to be buzzy that can help a lot to process and I wish you plenty of courage.

I also thank you for the tip of the D2, I think I must wait, there are to much new cameras coming out in the next months, so I keep my S1 a little bit longer or maybe I gonna sell it and hire one if I need one. For my work I also have a Kaiser Scando (gives files of 58 MB) and I can use that to make product shots for my clients.

Wish you all the best,

--Dirk

Spear said:

Im confused by the link you posted to your photos?

Click to expand...

Which link? These are from Fuji S1 (except one example that is made by a 10 years old Leaf DCB digital back):
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/Fuji_S1/index.htm

The pictures found here are scans from 35 mm Kodachrome slides, 35 mm negative film, 6x7 cm negative film, 4x5 inch slide. Al scans made with a cheap Umax scanner including a light-option to scan slides. Just read the text and you know.
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/Umax/index.htm
These are old Kodak Photo-CD scans of several 35 mm slides:
http://home.iae.nl/users/lobers/nl/2_Photo/fotofram.htm

Spear said:

I guess I am the exception with the S1. I have had no
problems with the S1 whatsoever. Im currently getting to 15,000
pics made with the S1 on a IBM 1G Microdrive. Do I have the only
Fuji that works?

Click to expand...

No, al lot of other photographers have good functioning Fuji S1 camera's. But the spread by quality or maybe bad production runs, you can not deny by many users that met troubles with it. It seems to be a lottery.

You have to be aware that users can be different too. There are users that don't have a big inside to quality in general, so they shall not find difficulties too, because they don't see it. Others have not the work to be need presice in color aspects. E.g. pictures for sport, it is not important at all, the action is the thing that is important.

Others have a presice workflow within a studio under ideal circumstances to get good reproductions of drawaings or paintings or pictures from consumer products.

I know users they didn't find any problems in color for months by outside pictures. But as soon when there was only one snowfall and they want to take pictures of it, they noticed the green color-shift within their pictures.

Spear said:

I get the impression you have had nothing but percieved bad values
and endless returns of items, not just cameras.

Click to expand...

No, four Fuji camera's didn't meet the expectations. Only one Nikon D1X did. I did the same tests with my D1X, and those found values are within very close limits. Is it just luck with only one Nikon?

Spear said:

Perhaps the Netherlands arent the best place to buy cameras?

Click to expand...

I have a good Nikon D1X as well several other good camera's within a timespan of about 35 years.

Spear said:

just trying to see if you are a Fuji basher, D1X proponent or what.

Click to expand...

I only want to work with reliable material. Every brand has the chance to make good products or to organize good service if you need it. Yes I am realistic too, every product can have failures, than you need service. If it is corrected fast and in a good way, you have less reason for complains. But if it takes months and the people you are talking to are not good talking partners by their bad knowledge of the inside of their products, it is very annoying. It takes lots of energy, and it is not my target to school them.

Spear said:

Just trying to see if your posts
are more opinion than fact.

Click to expand...

I write my opinions not as nice fairy tales, but by the experiance of working with digital systems already by about 6-7 years and by testing under controlled conditions.

Take the opinions for what it is. Forget it if you have no faith in it, I don't care. Or just take some information within your mind if you think it is usefull.
--Leon Obers