D200 vs. 5D (Canon)

is the rudeness of responses. Many people (friends and strangers) ask me for advice and some questions might be old or basic to me, but I do my best to actually help, rather than yelling at them to make them feel like cr@p.
--------------------------------------------
Joe Braun Photography
http://www.citrusmilo.com/
 
Rickard - You should try using your own advice -- let us know how that search function works for you! :) -Joe
 
Generally speaking, IMHO.
Higher ISO shooting is much better on the 5D

Camera build on the 5D is very nice, the D200 is up a notch.

DOF isolation, given the 5D's full frame makes shots like these impossible on the D200

(yes, you can blur the background given a really fast lens, but not to this degree)

Shot with a EF 85mm f/1.2 L USM II







D200 will have better edges and less vignetting.

Although, I don't mind vignetting and edge blur, wide open, for my taste, it's a retro look that really composes and frames the shot nicely.

Flash creativity D200

AWB, both poor IMHO

Lens line up, Canon, hands down

These are all my opinions.
Now if your talking the 5D vs the D2X, well it's a different tale, IMO.
 
is the rudeness of responses. Many people (friends and strangers)
ask me for advice and some questions might be old or basic to me,
but I do my best to actually help, rather than yelling at them to
make them feel like cr@p.
It's not meant to make them feel like cr@p, but what about initiative? There are lots of lazy slubs here that don't want to do any searching, let along researching. They expect answers regardless of how "beaten to death" the subject is so all they have to do is come back and read a few replies.

I'm not saying this is the case here, but Mario is right. No one here should get a free pass on this kind of question until he/she demonstrates a little intelligence first. Lazy people don't deserve an answer.....
 
--
'Let my heart be broken by the things that break the heart of God.'
===============
Nikon D200 - MB-D200 - SB800 - TC-20EII
Nikons(f/2.8 all) 17-55, 105VR Micro, 70-200 VR, 300
 
Having owned and used both cameras (and both systems over the past decade):

Price: You have to factor in the cost of lenses here as well, and depending on what you want to do photographically–say highly compressed (long telephotos), very shallow DOF portraits–a 5D-based Canon system may actually be a good deal cheaper. If you want to make use of a wide angle perspective correction lens, Canon offers the only solution. Price is seldom as simple as the cost of the body.

IQ: Here the 5D wins on the strength of its higher resolution, greater DOF control (yes, even when you want more DOF, that's better accommodated with a tilt/shift lens where one doesn't have to compromise sharpness for DOF), greater dynamic range (particularly evident in the ability to recover 'blown' highlights),

Noise: Presuming one would like to have one's high ISO shots as free from noise as possible, technically the 5D wins easily. However, this too is a complex discussion as many feel the grainy, 35mm-film-like noise structure of the D200 is aesthetically more pleasing than the 5D's smeary dots of chroma noise–and this is true if the goal is emulation of the look of 35mm film at the same sensitivities. But, in the instance one actually wants the cleanest possible image with the most detail possible, the D200's grain-like noise can't be cleaned without the loss of detail simply because it is indistinguishable (to the software, at least) from genuine image detail; on the other hand, the chroma noise of the 5D can be virtually eliminated with almost any NR software without reducing detail at all. So, for those wanting their DSLR to replace a 6x4.5cm medium format SLR, the 5D's approach yields clean, detailed images at high ISO that are very similar to high speed film scans from medium format.

So, one's assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of either model's noise performance should be based upon one's own needs and experiences, rather than on objective measurements.

Speed: D200 mostly wins here, except that the 5D takes noticeably less time to show and image after capture, and clears its buffer faster.

Build: A dead head in terms of actual quality of assembly and materials. The claims of superiority are based on subjective reactions to ergonomic differences that have virtually nothing to do with the ruggedness of either body. Both are durable cameras with alloy chassis, magnesium-and-plastic exteriors, and shutters designed for a minimum of 100,000 actuations–twice that off ordinary DLSRs. The D200's principle advantage in terms of build is in its adoption of numerous rubber seals to achieve a higher level of weatherization.

AF: A dead heat. Where the D200 excels in motion tracking, it fails in reliably, speedily acquiring focus in low light with only moderately contrasty subjects. Where the 5D is quick and accurate in low light with less contrast subjects, it's not as capable in tracking moving subjects–especially at close range. This is another paramter in which one's own shooting needs will determine the winner more definitively than will any attempt at objective assesment.

Flash: Nikon has an edge here for ease of use, and consistency of automated results. Canon, however, has the better system overall, in my opinion, because its automatic results are 8/10 the same, but it is far easier to control manually with two caveats: no PC sync terminal on the flashes, and IR wireless triggering instead of radio triggering.

Lenses: Both manufacturers make excellent lenses, but the 5D gives you access to a much wider range of choices, particularly at the wide end where one has myriad choices among fast zooms and primes ranger than just a handful of moderately fast zooms. On the long end, the D200 (and any other APS-C sensor camera) gives you more effective reach with less expensive telephotos, though at the expense of diminished ability to limit DOF and isolate subjects from their background.

FF vs DX: Yep, only the individual can decide the relative strengths and weaknesses. However, a great many of these other parameters are related to this fundamental choice, so...

Viewfinder: 5D is bigger and easier to confirm AF on, or to manually focus with. Brightness is about the same.

Ergonomics: Inherently subjective, and can't be quantified as an advantage for either as ergonomics is inherently subjective, and any control arrangement (whether Canon's, Nikon's, or Sony's) can be quite easily mastered with just a little dedicated use. Personally, I find Canon's ergonomics more intuitive than Nikon's, which I bemoan for its reliance on two hands to change most settings that can be accomplished single-handedly on the 5D. Both have their fair share of functions embedded in menus; the distinction will be made on which brand has more of your own most needed functions readily available or buried in a menu. On this point, form your own opinion rather than rely on the experiences of others.

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kabeluna/
 
The D2x remains a DX-sensor-camera, and its high ISO noise performance is, if anything, worse than the D200. AWB with the D2x will be better, as will build quality, AF speed and accuracy, and marginally resolution but in terms of image quality what else would be different from the same comparison with the D200?
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- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kabeluna/
 
I switched to the 5D from a D200. I thought about it 1000 times before doing it but this is what I think.

1) Canon 5D: Larger viewfinder, for me very important when I shoot fashion or products

2) Cleaner files also at 100 ISO. Above 400 ISO no comparison with the D200, the 5D produces amazing and smooth files with high ISO, we know that. I had a photo shoot where I shot at 800 ISO I can use all the files.

3) Ergonomics. Well, I have to get used to that. Menus are more intuitive on the Nikon.

4) Lenses: I got the 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8. Amazing lenses and with the full frame you will really enjoy them. Built like thanks.

5) I have the battery grip. The D200 battery grip is a joke. Horrible piece of plastic. I can't believe Nikon made such a cheap accessory. I changed it two times, and I shoot a lot. Canon grip is much better and, of course, more expensive.

6) Battery life: not great, I would say as good as the D200. I still have an old D70 and its battery life is incredible, nothing as good as that.

7) Skin Tones: Canon way better, maybe colors not that vibrant but if you shoot RAW you can always adjust it.

8) Sync flash: 200/sec. The D200 is 250/s little better. With some strobes you have to shoot 125/s or 160/s.
9) 3 FPS, not a big deal. I'm not a sport photographer.

10) I need clean and perfect files to work with. This is what matters for me, the Canon 5D for me produce better files and with higher resolution. I have more cropping space. Also, if you are an advance amateur or a pro, Canon service, above all here in California is way better and faster. You can't be without a camera for weeks or months.

Ciao

--
ROCCOSTUDIO.NET
Rocco Ceselin Photographer
Los Angeles/Miami/Italy
 
The D2x remains a DX-sensor-camera, and its high ISO noise
performance is, if anything, worse than the D200. AWB with the D2x
will be better, as will build quality, AF speed and accuracy, and
marginally resolution but in terms of image quality what else would
be different from the same comparison with the D200?
--
- -
Kabe Luna
I am referring to IQ at base ISO generally speaking, one could argue they are very close, I feel the D2X and the 5D are superior at base ISO, when compared to the D200. I also prefer the focusing on the 5D to the D200 as well.
 
Lens line up, Canon, hands down
Matt, I'm hoping as what Thom is inferring in his website that Nikon has something up its sleeves with regards to lenses - i.e. "A 33% increase in lens sales? Yep, the rumor of lots of new lenses must be true....."

So, I wouldn't say as you say "Canon, hands down" just yet .......

--
Gene

See my gallery at
http://www.zenfolio.com/echung
 
Having owned and used both cameras (and both systems over the past
decade):
snip..
wow .. a comparison without the words "suck", "beats", "better", "best" in it. ;)

there's another aspect of lens costs that is mostly ignored. for these two cameras you have vastly different lens decisions. alot on this nikon forum compare FF versus DX and compare ultra wide angles, but that isn't comparing apples versus apples. so on a DX sized sensor, nikon lenses I would get would be the 17-35 and the 28-70 (which gives me an equiv range of 26mm to 105mm) - impeccible lenses - the best that nikon makes. on the FF side, the same FOV / DOF can be achieved with one lens - the 24-105 - which is a far more useful range.
 
I have seen the 30 second NR tests done here, and I'm perfectly happy with them. I was just wondering about other peoples opinions. Sometimes people have little tips and tricks for getting the best results that you can't find in Phils reviews or discover during your time playing with the camera at the camera store.
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General Notions are Generally Wrong.
 
And what do you mean be that?

I am already using the search functions but right now the search is not working, if that was your point.

BUT, even when the search does not work, people asks the same questions over and over and over again, it is like reinventing the wheel.

--
Rickard Hansson
Sweden
 
Bring it on, tell me, which is better? I have about as many 5D
shouters as D200 so can't make up my mind... any help from your
side?
Thanks
--
An Eye is the perfect Camera...
It depends on your needs. The Canon has FF - gives shallow DOF,
very good high ISOs. The D200 is good for action, sports and
wildlife (5 fps, 1.5x Dx factor), very good allround.
--
Small D200 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d200_12
Small D40 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d40_12
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
I understand the FF attraction, but analysing my specific needs when I bought my D200 last year they were

a) I got some options to shot marathon races for a publication and travel agency. Based on my "earlier life" as a news and sport photographer I knew I wanted 5 fps, an the 70-200VR with on a DX camera is a very good tool for this.

b) I was going for a safari in the summer and wanted the reach (pixel density) of a DX camera.
So in real word applications the D200 was better for me.
--
Small D200 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d200_12
Small D40 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d40_12
http://www.pbase.com/interactive [/U]
 
Thanks for all the answers!!

mario and the other angry guy, I have looked pages and pages back
and couldn't find an answer to my question so decided to ask. If
you couldn't be bothered to answer properly, why bother writing an
answer at all? I just dont get that sort of hostility!!

And Joe Braun Im a girl ;)
THANKS AGAIN

--
An Eye is the perfect Camera...
I so agree with you.. many of us have learnt to wade past all the forumites that have this weird terror of their brand being called into question - someone like yourself asks a question & it's like your the devil incarnate, stirring it all up - so you have to develop a thick skin as some people are hugely defensive for seemingly little reason.

Fact is, the more objective of us are happy to admit the strengths & weaknesses of our respective gear.

Some of us, myself included would even like to own both systems - I'd choose Nikon for flash & ergonomics & Canon for FF & High ISO capability, add in Fuji S5 for High ISO & nice Jpegs & the DR (of course has CLS flash too....!).

I don't see it as a brand, i see it as a (hopefully) tool.. much like if you had a people carrier car for day to day & maybe a sports car for the weekend when your kids don't need ferrying.

And don't forget, it's not about megapixels, it's about how you plan to use it, and that'll also make you look at the lens lineup too.. you MUST consider the lenses of both systems if you're serious.

--
I am Badger, hear me snuffle!
----------------------------------------
D200, 85mm 1.4 AFD, 12-24 dx, 17-55 dx, 70-200 VR, Sigma 180 Ex Macro
http://www.pbase.com/lord_of_the_badgers/ [/U]
 
Lets see... The Canon 5D is $2800 US
The D200 is about $1300 US

Which camera do you think is better?

I don't understand why people keep trying to compare these two cameras. They are two completely different animals. If anything, you should be comparing the 30D to the D200.

--
Scott A.

 
I switched to the 5D from a D200. I thought about it 1000 times
before doing it but this is what I think.

1) Canon 5D: Larger viewfinder, for me very important when I shoot
fashion or products
If I would shoot fashion, I would use my Mamiya, much much bigger and better than a 5D or D200.

I think brightness very important for 35mm, and that is about equal with 5D. (I was able to 'borrow' the 5D so now and then :-)
2) Cleaner files also at 100 ISO. Above 400 ISO no comparison with
the D200, the 5D produces amazing and smooth files with high ISO,
we know that. I had a photo shoot where I shot at 800 ISO I can use
all the files.
There is a big personal part in this. I also feel the 5D delivers very smooth images. I feel often digital (plastic look) when people talk about the Canon smoothness. Above iso 800 Canon is better in noise removal, below that D200 is very good, as long as your exposurei is good. Besides this I feel how higher the iso how more plastic fantastic the canon looks, like a build-in version of noise ninja, just my personal opinion.

3) Ergonomics. Well, I have to get used to that. Menus are more
intuitive on the Nikon.
I know someone who shoots Canon for a long time, he loves the menu structure of his Canon cameras', personal point again.
4) Lenses: I got the 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8. Amazing lenses
and with the full frame you will really enjoy them. Built like
thanks.
I just purchased a used nikon 28-70 f.2.8, Incredable lens as well. It will work on the new FF of Nikon for sure also! :-) 70-200, same thing. Both the Canon and Niikon versions are very good. I would be happy if Nikon could make an f/4 24-105 VR like the Canon.
5) I have the battery grip. The D200 battery grip is a joke.
Horrible piece of plastic. I can't believe Nikon made such a cheap
accessory. I changed it two times, and I shoot a lot.
It is always on my camera, it is plastic but fantastic and good build! :-) I have no problems with it, except for one point. The nipples which keep the batteries on place are not the best solution.

Canon grip is
much better and, of course, more expensive.
6) Battery life: not great, I would say as good as the D200. I
still have an old D70 and its battery life is incredible, nothing
as good as that.
7) Skin Tones: Canon way better, maybe colors not that vibrant but
if you shoot RAW you can always adjust it.
Canon skin tones are a bit too pink too me.
8) Sync flash: 200/sec. The D200 is 250/s little better. With some
strobes you have to shoot 125/s or 160/s.
9) 3 FPS, not a big deal. I'm not a sport photographer.
I'm not a fashion photographer
10) I need clean and perfect files to work with. This is what
matters for me, the Canon 5D for me produce better files and with
higher resolution. I have more cropping space. Also, if you are an
advance amateur or a pro, Canon service, above all here in
California is way better and faster. You can't be without a camera
for weeks or months.
If you're exposure is good the D200 delivers highly detailed clean images till on 800. And if you do not need to shoot silk clean images at 800 iso or up so often, If you care about detail and lesser about noise above iso 800 the D200 is the choice.
Usually my compostion is good, I do not need so much cropping space.

Nikon service is good. You never hear and remember the 1000's of times that the service is good, only when it's not good.

Bai bai~

Foto Propaganda :-)
Ciao

--
ROCCOSTUDIO.NET
Rocco Ceselin Photographer
Los Angeles/Miami/Italy
--
~ Light is eveything ~
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
http://www.pbase.com/photopropaganda
 
1) 5D controls - same as entry level DSLR like D80, slow and unconvinient

2) Up to ISO 400 - pictures have no any difference with D200, D80, 400D or whatever

3) ISO 800 - 1600, less then one stop difference

4) Canon 24-70/2.8 worse then Nikon 28-70/2.8, Canon 16-35/2.8 even more worse compare to 17-35/2.8. Tele lenses - same.

5) Full frame - losing sharpness at corners and sufficient vignetting at wide angle.

Your money. Better try both before buying. If you are looking 30D with different sensor - 5D, if semi pro camera - D200
 

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