Reading mode: Light Dark

Leica Digilux 1 not one of Phil's personal favs

Go to last post
B

bronson

Forum Enthusiast
Messages
420
Reaction score
2
Location
Toronto and Area, CA
I was really excited when I first saw the Digilux enter the scene here, but was disappointed that Leica couldn't make Phil's "personal top products" list.

Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
 
bronson said:
Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality
or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
Click to expand...
They'd be lucky to fare as well ... and only wth the help of Panasonic.

In the last couple of years I have spoken directly with Leica in Solms and was driven to the conclusion that they knew next to nothing about digtal.

Initially there attitude towards digital could best be described as serene contempt. More recently there attitude seems to have changed.

They are right IMO insofar as almost all qualty dogital cameras are legacy products and designed to accomodate lenses that are less than ideal for digital photography. Nvertheless there are many owners of M and R series cameras who yearn for a digital body which would accomodate their expensive glass - even though I suspect that this combination would not be so wonderful.
 
given that its a re-badged (already existing) panasonic digicam, I personally don't understand the Leica Hype...

what if sanyo/samsung/hp would have re-badged it instead of leica... would you be excited? i think not

alfred
brent said:
I was really excited when I first saw the Digilux enter the scene
here, but was disappointed that Leica couldn't make Phil's
"personal top products" list.
Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality
or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
Click to expand...
 
I have problems with it because (a) it's essentially the Panasonic DMC-LC5 and (b) the lens appears to be identical in construction to that used on most other 3/4 megapixel digital cameras (it's a Canon OEM lens).. Leica may well be providing coatings or certain lens elements but it's nothing new.

What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
brent said:
I was really excited when I first saw the Digilux enter the scene
here, but was disappointed that Leica couldn't make Phil's
"personal top products" list.
Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality
or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
Click to expand...
 
Leica could be a candidate for being "triumph-adler" of photography, still producing typewriters in the late 1990ies

;o)

alfred
spixi said:
spixi said:
Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality
or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
Click to expand...
They'd be lucky to fare as well ... and only wth the help of
Panasonic.

In the last couple of years I have spoken directly with Leica in
Solms and was driven to the conclusion that they knew next to
nothing about digtal.

Initially there attitude towards digital could best be described as
serene contempt. More recently there attitude seems to have changed.
They are right IMO insofar as almost all qualty dogital cameras are
legacy products and designed to accomodate lenses that are less
than ideal for digital photography. Nvertheless there are many
owners of M and R series cameras who yearn for a digital body
which would accomodate their expensive glass - even though I
suspect that this combination would not be so wonderful.
Click to expand...
 
I'd like to believe that a company like Leica would make something more than a half hearted attempt to enter the market.
Hope they wake up soon and smell the winds of change.
Phil Askey said:
What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
brent said:
I was really excited when I first saw the Digilux enter the scene
here, but was disappointed that Leica couldn't make Phil's
"personal top products" list.
Is it simply because there is no new break-through in image quality
or price-point?
Leica faring no better than Canon, Nikon or Sony in digital?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Phil Askey said:
I have problems with it because (a) it's essentially the Panasonic
DMC-LC5 and (b) the lens appears to be identical in construction to
that used on most other 3/4 megapixel digital cameras (it's a Canon
OEM lens).. Leica may well be providing coatings or certain lens
elements but it's nothing new.

What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
Click to expand...
.......but, will have to settle for a dumb old non-digital M7.....:-(.....;-]
--Bob Ross
 
Phil Askey said:
I have problems with it because (a) it's essentially the Panasonic
DMC-LC5 and (b) the lens appears to be identical in construction to
that used on most other 3/4 megapixel digital cameras (it's a Canon
OEM lens).. Leica may well be providing coatings or certain lens
elements but it's nothing new.

What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
Click to expand...
But a digital M7 with interchangable high performing lenses too. But I think, Leica has no know how in digital work, is writing red numbers since some years - there is no potential to do an own developement. Leica needs a digital coworker, but only a Leica assignement on the lens will not be a real Leica. --H. Kretzschmar, Germany
 
Horst Kretzschmar said:
Horst Kretzschmar said:
What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I don't know if Leica have or not the necessary know-how to develop such a beast like an M7-Digital ( or D7 ), but I REALLY hope to see something like this soon.

They're involved in the digital arena w/ their new Digilux 1 : a camera built around Canon's OEM glass ( high quality indeed but not "genuine" Leica ) and Panasonic electronics.

It could be true that they've no necessary experience regarding the digital side of photography but in my VERY humble opinion they will lost TOO much if they NOT enter it heavily with high rated products : M7-Digital to begin the race in the mid/pro range and an "R" based professional one.

Leica's optics are pure legend and it would be great to see an M7-D in the near future, it could be a serious contender for all the other brands, at any level.

Ciao,

Emanuele Chiocchio ( just dreaming )
 
Emanuele Chiocchio said:
Emanuele Chiocchio said:
Emanuele Chiocchio said:
What people WANT from Leica is a digital M7...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I don't know if Leica have or not the necessary know-how to develop
such a beast like an M7-Digital ( or D7 ), but I REALLY hope to see
something like this soon.
They're involved in the digital arena w/ their new Digilux 1 : a
camera built around Canon's OEM glass ( high quality indeed but not
"genuine" Leica ) and Panasonic electronics.
It could be true that they've no necessary experience regarding the
digital side of photography but in my VERY humble opinion they will
lost TOO much if they NOT enter it heavily with high rated products
: M7-Digital to begin the race in the mid/pro range and an "R"
based professional one.
Leica's optics are pure legend and it would be great to see an M7-D
in the near future, it could be a serious contender for all the
other brands, at any level.

Ciao,

Emanuele Chiocchio ( just dreaming )
Click to expand...
Maybe a Voigtlander Bessa-D or even a Konica Haxar-D? Expand the possibilities of our dream....:-)
--Bob Ross
 
Just read the Steve's Digicams “look review” on the Panasonic Lumix DCM-LC5. I am quite disappointed to find that there is no review on the image quality. Apparently, Panasonic gave Steve only a pre-production model. This camera has been available in Japan and in Hong Kong’s gray market for over a month. I have seen the LC5 in two shops in Hong Kong more than a month ago. I wonder why Panasonic did not give Steve a production model for review. It is really, really very strange indeed.

Phil commented that the Leica lens on the Lumix LC-5 looks identical to some popular digicams (e.g. Canon G1). Yes, they look identical. But are they the same? I am not that sure. Panasonic and Leica had stated very clearly that this camera has an innovative lens design: “gapless lens”. I am not sure the term “gapless lens” refers to a design feature internal to the lens or external to the lens (e.g. mechanical interface with the lens). If this is an internal design feature of a lens, then the Leica lens on the Lumix LC-5 (and Digilux 1) should be different from that on the other cameras. The manufacturers of the other cameras so far have not claimed such a lens design feature.

If it turns out that the Leica lens is really identical to those on the other cameras, “gapless lens” is just a marketing jargon from Panasonic/Leica.

Regards,

K. Tse
 
Like I said before, this camera brings nothing to the table except
a more full implementation in the flash, like second curtain flash.
This is a feature even the G2 does not have. If you purchase the
420ex, you still don't have it, as Canon has refused to implement
full support for their own flashes on their consumer line of cameras.
This is at least a step in the right direction, and maybe the blue
looking coatings on the lens are different enough to make a big
improvement in the image quality. The Canon coatings are more
of a bronze/yellow color. The other interesting thing is the non
Sony chip used. It may be much less noisy than the Sony offerings.
Kelvin Tse said:
Just read the Steve's Digicams “look review” on the Panasonic Lumix
DCM-LC5. I am quite disappointed to find that there is no review on
the image quality. Apparently, Panasonic gave Steve only a
pre-production model. This camera has been available in Japan and
in Hong Kong’s gray market for over a month. I have seen the LC5 in
two shops in Hong Kong more than a month ago. I wonder why
Panasonic did not give Steve a production model for review. It is
really, really very strange indeed.

Phil commented that the Leica lens on the Lumix LC-5 looks
identical to some popular digicams (e.g. Canon G1). Yes, they look
identical. But are they the same? I am not that sure. Panasonic and
Leica had stated very clearly that this camera has an innovative

lens design: “gapless lens”. I am not sure the term “gapless lens”
refers to a design feature internal to the lens or external to the
lens (e.g. mechanical interface with the lens). If this is an
internal design feature of a lens, then the Leica lens on the Lumix
LC-5 (and Digilux 1) should be different from that on the other
cameras. The manufacturers of the other cameras so far have not
claimed such a lens design feature.

If it turns out that the Leica lens is really identical to those on
the other cameras, “gapless lens” is just a marketing jargon from
Panasonic/Leica.

Regards,

K. Tse
Click to expand...
 
Phil Askey said:
I have problems with it because (a) it's essentially the Panasonic
DMC-LC5 and (b) the lens appears to be identical in construction to
that used on most other 3/4 megapixel digital cameras (it's a Canon
OEM lens).. Leica may well be providing coatings or certain lens
elements but it's nothing new.
Click to expand...
I don't have a digital camera (yet). The main thing holding me back is how much less responsive they are than film cameras (at least for everything short of the expensive D-SLR's). Panasonic and Leica at least claim to have addressed this speed issue. If the camera is significantly more responsive than other prosumer digital cameras and about the same in image quality as similar cameras (Canon G2, Sony S85, Casio 4000, Olympus 4040), then it is a camera I would probably buy. I really don't care who makes it or who's name is on it (I think the Pansonic version looks much, much better).
 
Bob Williams said:
Like I said before, this camera brings nothing to the table except
a more full implementation in the flash, like second curtain flash.
This is a feature even the G2 does not have
Click to expand...
This is nothing new to Olympus. Even my lowly 2yr old 3MP C-3000z has first and second curtain flash.
 
I really don't care who makes it or
John Sparks said:
who's name is on it (I think the Pansonic version looks much, much
better).
Click to expand...
I agree. The only reason I would go with the Leica if its price were lower than the Panasonic. Genuine Leica lenses, particularly the M series lenses, are superb, but the almost bankrupt Leica company has done a lot to undermine its standing by regularly introducing special editions which have no special technical merit: just cosmetics at a premium price. One cannot help feeling that they try to sucker as many name snobs and fettish addicts as possible. Of course Hasselblad is now trying something similar with their new colour scheme. For me the upshot is that the Panasonic label has more class than Leica in respect of this particular model.
 
Kelvin Tse said:
Just read the Steve's Digicams “look review” on the Panasonic Lumix
DCM-LC5. I am quite disappointed to find that there is no review on
the image quality. Apparently, Panasonic gave Steve only a
pre-production model. This camera has been available in Japan and
in Hong Kong’s gray market for over a month. I have seen the LC5 in
two shops in Hong Kong more than a month ago. I wonder why
Panasonic did not give Steve a production model for review. It is
really, really very strange indeed.

Phil commented that the Leica lens on the Lumix LC-5 looks
identical to some popular digicams (e.g. Canon G1). Yes, they look
identical. But are they the same? I am not that sure. Panasonic and
Leica had stated very clearly that this camera has an innovative

lens design: “gapless lens”. I am not sure the term “gapless lens”
refers to a design feature internal to the lens or external to the
lens (e.g. mechanical interface with the lens). If this is an
internal design feature of a lens, then the Leica lens on the Lumix
LC-5 (and Digilux 1) should be different from that on the other
cameras. The manufacturers of the other cameras so far have not
claimed such a lens design feature.

If it turns out that the Leica lens is really identical to those on
the other cameras, “gapless lens” is just a marketing jargon from
Panasonic/Leica.

Regards,

K. Tse
Click to expand...
The gapless lens refers to the condenser lens that is the top layer of the CCD. See the Panasonic site Japan for their explanation. The only thing different on the actual lens seems to be the "Asph" designation. Leica is doing the "ASPH" thing on all their M lenses. The lens coatings are supposed to act as filters for the CCD to cut down on CA.
--Bob Ross
 
Do you think these old world names are going to run their course and eventually die off, never quite being able to break into the new economy of digital?

They would look great on an old fireplace mantel... Hey, maybe they do have a niche.
Seriously... I hope not.
spixi said:
spixi said:
who's name is on it (I think the Pansonic version looks much, much
better).
Click to expand...
I agree. The only reason I would go with the Leica if its price
were lower than the Panasonic. Genuine Leica lenses, particularly
the M series lenses, are superb, but the almost bankrupt Leica
company has done a lot to undermine its standing by regularly
introducing special editions which have no special technical merit:
just cosmetics at a premium price. One cannot help feeling that
they try to sucker as many name snobs and fettish addicts as
possible. Of course Hasselblad is now trying something similar with
their new colour scheme. For me the upshot is that the Panasonic
label has more class than Leica in respect of this particular model.
Click to expand...
 
Phil Askey said:
I have problems with it because (a) it's essentially the Panasonic
DMC-LC5 and (b) the lens appears to be identical in construction to
that used on most other 3/4 megapixel digital cameras (it's a Canon
OEM lens).. Leica may well be providing coatings or certain lens
elements but it's nothing new.
Click to expand...
The Leica Digilux 1 indeed seems to be almost identical to the Panasonic DMC-LC5 and the lens does appear to be very similar to the one used in other cameras. However , the Digilux and the DMC-LC5 bring something to digital cameras (besides DSLRs) which I have been wishing for for a long time: a useable manual focusing ring.

What has bothered me most about non-SLR cameras (both digital and film) is that their manual focusing can only be affected by pressing tiny buttons. No manual focusing system beats twisting a ring around the lens. Similarly, entering aperture and exposure through little press buttons with only small LCD screens for feedback is simply not efficient. I miss the manual dials of my old manual SLR cameras dearly.

In my opinion, all digital cameras but the high end DSLRs have long ways to go in terms of efficient user interface design. Nothing beats the visual and tactile feedback of an analog/manual dial. That's what I want to see and Leica/Panasonic are on the right way.

Escher
 
Emanuele Chiocchio said:
They're involved in the digital arena w/ their new Digilux 1 : a
camera built around Canon's OEM glass ( high quality indeed but not
"genuine" Leica ) and Panasonic electronics.
Click to expand...
I was really excited when I first heard about this camera, and I was quite surprised to find that the general view seem to be very negative here.

It'd be really shameful of Leica if they really use a Canon OEM glass. I always see them as being a company with some pride. Not that Canon lenses are not good (I have a G1 which I'm very happy with), but I mean Leica's sticking its own brand name and logo on the camera, and its famous for the quality of its lens. If I'm buying a Leica camera I'd assume a large part of the price I pay is for the Leica lens. If I want a Canon lens I'd buy a Canon camera, which I have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top