The attitudes on this forum are "appaling"

I see many posts here, some people come here for some advice, and some for information. Maybe more than a few have dreams to be a professional photographer.

Aside from posts on information about copyright, model/propery releases etc..(all reasonable stuff)...a few things stick out..like a sore thumb.

If someone asks for help/critique...do you really need to shoot them down 20 times so they feel so bad about themselves they won't pick up a camera again?

How many times do we have to read the "go to college" line? You tell me people.

Why do some feel the need to "look down" on others..and belittle them or mock them? Or laugh at amateurs who come here for information? Or snigger at "inferior gear".

If someone asks for an "honest" critique.....can we not show some degree of taste and respect....without using words like lousy and rubbish? Picasso, I don't like his stuff...lots do. Its called taste, we all differ. A more considered use of words could be used. There tends to be something positive to say about most shots...even if they went wrong.

I see some very good info and advice here, and some ego's the size of a super beach ball.......

It would be nice for once if the minority of people here would cop on a bit, and start to be a tad more postive about their use of words, rather than very negative.

Rant over........

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Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Well said.

I've always tried to give whatever positive information I could. Sometimes it does get a little annoying to see a post asking a question that's very clearly answered in the owners manual, or something like that, but I try to help when I can.

As for the like it/don't like it, I know what you mean about "taste". As a photojournalist, I've come back from assignments with a photo that I worked my tail off to get, and had folks just sort of go, "oh yeah, that's nice." "NICE, WHADDYA MEAN, NICE, I WORKED MY BUTT OFF FOR THAT ONE!" Then, two hours later, I'll come back with one that was no more than point, frame, focus, expose, click, and have them spend ten minutes admiring it. Myself, I'm satisfied knowing I did the best I could.

Jim Dean

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I see many posts here, some people come here for some advice, and
some for information. Maybe more than a few have dreams to be a
professional photographer.

Aside from posts on information about copyright, model/propery
releases etc..(all reasonable stuff)...a few things stick out..like
a sore thumb.

If someone asks for help/critique...do you really need to shoot
them down 20 times so they feel so bad about themselves they won't
pick up a camera again?

How many times do we have to read the "go to college" line? You
tell me people.

Why do some feel the need to "look down" on others..and belittle
them or mock them? Or laugh at amateurs who come here for
information? Or snigger at "inferior gear".

If someone asks for an "honest" critique.....can we not show some
degree of taste and respect....without using words like lousy and
rubbish? Picasso, I don't like his stuff...lots do. Its called
taste, we all differ. A more considered use of words could be used.
There tends to be something positive to say about most shots...even
if they went wrong.

I see some very good info and advice here, and some ego's the size
of a super beach ball.......

It would be nice for once if the minority of people here would cop
on a bit, and start to be a tad more postive about their use of
words, rather than very negative.

Rant over........

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

Hi Barry, just read your very first post, you are consistant.
I concur with your OP today.
Carl

This happens regardless of the hobby/profession.

Computers.
Model Trains.
Photography.
Aquarium Fish.

For some reason perfectly nice people become raging tyrants when behind a keyboard.

It's a sad fact of life. It's been around even before the internet went full the old days of FIDOnet and even local city bulletin boards. Flaming is a staple as much as trolling.
--
http://www.thescribeoflight.com
http://www.thescribeoflightphotography.com

Tom Boucher said:

For some reason perfectly nice people become raging tyrants when
behind a keyboard.

Click to expand...

True. Certainly one would not act so brazen with a face-to-face exchange.
--
-Tom

-Check out http://www.b-roll.net

People get much better treatment on the brand name forums. I frequent the Olympus forum, because I shoot with Olympus, and newbies and starters are normally treated with kid gloves. On the pro forum it is different. I once loaned a camera to someone on the Olympus forum who wanted to shoot his first wedding for a friend. He posted a link to his web site on the Pro forum and was blasted. He just disappeard after that. I thought that if he had posted it on the Olympus forum he would have gotten better treatment. That was bad judgement on his part.

--
Thomas J. Kolenich

even those who are making a pretty good living in photography, are thin skinned, insecure people. This board gives a lot of losers a way to artificially elevate their own egos.

You'll notice that USUALLY the nice people... they are the better REAL pros and have no need to be rude. And sadly, the VAST majority of really talented, experienced pros... they're working while the rest of us are, well, here.

love,
me

--
I'm Scooter, and I approve of this message.

Communication through a Internet forum is very different from casual conversation. And it is a new form of communication still in its infancy.

Your complain is true but is not restricted to photography. Problem is the medium not the subject. Some forums have more knowleadgeable(on internet forum comunication not on the subject discussed) or tolerant people some have less tolerance.

Forum communication is so different that it created its own meaning for some words to better express its peculiatrities like: flaming, trolls, lurking,
poster,AFAIK,LOL, etc.

Comparing to other forums in general, this forum is average in tolerance, it requires a more focused audience. If the question gets much out of the focused audience it is mostly ignored or get some angry responses. If the question is well targeted for professionals (regardless of the level), it usually gets a very good and knowleageble response. At least this is my experience.

...even atrocious. ;-)
--
Gary
http://garyjean.zenfolio.com/

I've been a member at DP for many years now, but these days I post less due to attitude problems of some members. I am also guilty in some cases......

When comparing to another (cell phone) Forum, this place is really nice. Some Howardforums.com members are snooty cell phone members who will flame you if you ask a novice question. I am not asking there anymore. Prefer not to be called an idiot and will not respond to this kind of flaming.
--
Andrzej
http://lowflyingbananas.zenfolio.com/

Barry

I think the panorama on your initial post is really burned out in the sky on the right.
Jules

--
Black moles do not destroy information.

I think it boils down to the fact that they should have a 'wannabe pro' forum for the silly questions people ask of pros. A truly pro forum would be a totally different kind of forum than the one here. It might have questions about billing/advanced shoot concerns (truly advanced shoots), percentages from stock agencies, marketing, taxes etc etc.

I believe the 'Pro' aspect of the forum has been effectively hijacked by those undercharging 'wanna be' photogs that want to get the pro's guidance so they can undercut them. How 'pro' are you that you are 'thinking about an slr so you can get that blurry out of focus effect, please help.'

Thoughts?
-Chris

p.s. I'm a wanna-be so don't flame me about this... hehe

one more thing. why is it that creative people can't spel? I once had a mockup delivered for a website and in a giant font size on the proof, which was otherwise very nice, it said... 'Click hear'.

WTF.

-Chris

I'm not a pro, but rather a semi-pro working my way up into Pro... Not inexperienced, though with about 30 years of amateur experience under my belt. I don't agree with your 'be gentle' attitude, though. Photography is a cut throat, brutal, and in many ways very unfriendly business to get into and I think relaying that to potential wanna-be's in anyway but the harshness they will encounter in the field is less than honest.... And this is coming from someone that is often on the recieving end of that attitude, but as they say, what doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. I KNOW I'm better than 1/3rd of the pro's out there. I'm not going to be discouraged by a little bit of competative unfriendlyness.

...and often you get what you pay for.
--
Gary
http://garyjean.zenfolio.com/

Reminds me of the attitude I used to get/still get at a couple of photography stores... like I have no business spending my money, and the clerk is doing me a huge favor just by letting me buy a warming filter or look at a lens on the shelf.

There's a lot going on here, including but not limited to:

1. Drunk typing
2. Implied tone (joking, sarcasm, & anger can be hard to distinguish at times)
3. Ignorance
4. Jealousy
5. Know-it-All/Pompous Jerk
6. Buyer's remorse
7. Trolling
8. Elitism
9. Rube Goldbergism
10. Lack of perspective

So those are my personality flaws, please feel free to add yours to my list.

--

not trolling, ranting, or trying to be obtuse... just working out my private issues in a public forum

I am by no means a photography pro. I'm here just to learn to make my own photographs better, but I thought I'd respond to this thread because there are many important analogies between photography and architecture, which IS my profession.

In architecture we also have withering critiques and off-hand comments, insecurities masquerading as critiques and obsessions rather than comprehensiveness. A previous poster noted that photographhy is cut-throat and people would do well to get a thick skin -- he's right, but with the caveat that there is no reason to be rude about critique. A critique can be very precise, even devastating, as long as it is about the work, and not the poster. Obviously people new to photography are going to take critiques of subpar photos very personally, and while regrettable, there isn't much one can do until one learns that your photos aren't you (it is my opinion that whatever you make very soon has a life of its own!)

That being said, there is no reason to blast obvious noobs. Were I to dare to put my residential interiors up for review, I could expect a lot of flak, and since I know this and am not ready to view this constructively, I don't. I know what I gotta learn. But plenty of people are just looking for a away in, as the the OP notes, there just isn't any reason to be rude about it.

To sum: if you don't like something, I feel strongly that you should critique the work rather than the person. Or be quiet. No responses are a critique in their own way, and the smart poster will pick up on that.

FWIW.

I totally agree with Barry. It’s a shame because when I first started coming to this forum a couple of years ago it helped me with my change over to digital, gave good advice and seemed full of genuinely knowledgeable and friendly people.

A friend of mine recently took up photography using an old film camera, showed me his pictures – which, technically were not very good, but I could see how much he liked them and enjoyed the whole process of photography and I remembered how I first felt when I took my first pictures, just that feeling of magic in creating that image. I wasn’t bothered then or new about perfect focus, composition and exposure, that is something I’ve learnt (and am still learning) since, over the 25 years.

The other thing that has put me off is the snobbery. Canon Vs Nikon, etc., and especially those who seem obsessed with the technology side and if you are happy with just taking pictures with whatever you have then you are a ‘new camera hater’. There are some people in particular who are just ‘Walter Mitty’ characters and ‘forum bullies’, I’ve just read a post of one of them, but, as has already been mentioned, it’s unfortunately apart of life. My best advice is just enjoy your photography, be happy with whatever you have and learn through practice and from a wide range of sources.

Ok…I feel a lot better now I’ve got that off my chest.

Spell has to ls
jules

qballfl said:

one more thing. why is it that creative people can't spel? I once
had a mockup delivered for a website and in a giant font size on
the proof, which was otherwise very nice, it said... 'Click hear'.

WTF.

-Chris

Click to expand...

--
Black moles do not destroy information.

IMO, is to ignore rudeness completely. Do not respond to rudeness. Pretend you can't see the post.

Rudeboys, Meboys and trolls always go away when they can't get a reaction. Attention deficit disorder.
--
Gary
http://garyjean.zenfolio.com/