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Nikon really scared of Canon

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tony field said:
Hopefully, this sub-thread has finally completed and I can add a
comment without impacting the discussion....
Click to expand...
tony field said:
On the whole, I do not understand the bellicose Canonite position
regarding their choice of religion.
--
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca
Click to expand...
and neither do some of us understand the nikonian position either. both take exceptional photos. however, more times than naught, nikon folks especially in here have a pack mentality when it comes to branding. Even thom in a camera review referred to people that use canon cameras and discuss them in forums as "trolls" - so much for objectivity.

read what happens in the nikon forums perhaps, name calling, character assassination, etc on a multitude of subjects whenever nikon is somehow affected even peripherally.

alot of people in these forums readily argue what canon could be doing better and what they are not doing. that same aspect in the nikon forum and the above occurs.

frankly I don't care what camera a person uses to take a photo, I look at the skill, artistical approach, and inspiration behind it instead.

I do know there's a ton of things that I can do with my canons that I can't do on nikon and stuff that I can do with nikon that I can't do with canon. what tipped the balance for the day to day use is I have more pros than cons with canon than with nikon.

However, that's an individual choice.
 
Jim Attfield said:
T3 said:
That characterization might make sense if there
were a bunch of other FF DSLR bodies priced at $2K, and the 5D was
the only one priced at $3K, but that's simply not the case. There
are no other FF bodie in this price range.
Click to expand...
... does Canon keep having to offer rebates to move them?
Click to expand...
Nikon offers rebates on their products, too, you know. There's a rebate right now on the D200. Does that mean that D200 sales are in trouble? Of course not. Companies have always offered rebates. It just allows them to sell even more cameras and generate even more foot traffic to their sales counters.
 
Wow, that's probably the most blatant form of self-justification I have ever seen, lol! Whatever helps you justify your latest purcahse, I guess. (Okay, it's hard to do this without personally knowing the OP, but I say everything light-heartedly as a fellow camera geek who enjoys poking fun at his friends...)

The fact is, Nikon is doing great. Go out to any public event or venue, (I've been to a TON lately) and you will see Nikon amateur DSLR's far outnumbering the formerly popular Canon D-Rebels. That is because Nikon has concentrated on that area in the past couple years, and Canon has not. Canon has concentrated on bringing 35mm DSLR sensors to the masses, and Nikon has concentrated on delivering what first-time buyers are looking for.

Super-affordable cameras like the D40 are what a LOT of people need, compared to the relatively expensive 400D. Canon needs to get with the program and re-birth their old 6 MP sensor at a super-affordable price, instead of upping the resolution of each new model and staying at ~$800... Then the D80 is more affordable than the 30D, while offering a couple attractive advantages. And the D200 is just without parallel in the Canon system; the 30D is far less professional and the 5D is far more expensive. Sure a lot of up-and-coming pros are jumping on the 5D as well, but that depends on the needs of the shooter.

While I praise Canon for bringing out the 5D, they should have paid more attention to the amateur market, and Nikon will once again steal the show with their next generations of pro bodies. And with such a massive crop of new up-and-coming shooters who are turning pro with their D70's and D80's, Nikon is probably hardly worrying at all about the grumpy, older pros springing for a 5D. ;-)

Besides, the next generation LBCAST sensor will quiet you all down... :-D

--
Take care!



http://www.matthewsaville.com
 
matthew saville said:
Wow, that's probably the most blatant form of self-justification I
have ever seen, lol! Whatever helps you justify your latest
purcahse, I guess. (Okay, it's hard to do this without personally
knowing the OP, but I say everything light-heartedly as a fellow
camera geek who enjoys poking fun at his friends...)
Click to expand...
no comments.. I dont justify my decision to anyone buy myself. The OP maybe different.
Astro Landscapes said:
The fact is, Nikon is doing great. Go out to any public event or
venue, (I've been to a TON lately) and you will see Nikon amateur
DSLR's far outnumbering the formerly popular Canon D-Rebels. That
is because Nikon has concentrated on that area in the past couple
years, and Canon has not. Canon has concentrated on bringing 35mm
DSLR sensors to the masses, and Nikon has concentrated on
delivering what first-time buyers are looking for.
Click to expand...
True..Nikon is doing well in the 10 and sub 10 MP camera (DSLR) getting waxed in P&S..and I am a former coolpix owner. I dont think canon is concentrating on giving FF to the masses, but atleast they are giving us the option.
Astro Landscapes said:
Super-affordable cameras like the D40 are what a LOT of people
need, compared to the relatively expensive 400D. Canon needs to
get with the program and re-birth their old 6 MP sensor at a
super-affordable price, instead of upping the resolution of each
new model and staying at ~$800... Then the D80 is more affordable
than the 30D, while offering a couple attractive advantages. And
the D200 is just without parallel in the Canon system; the 30D is
far less professional and the 5D is far more expensive. Sure a lot
of up-and-coming pros are jumping on the 5D as well, but that
depends on the needs of the shooter.
Click to expand...
the "normal" consumer is to MP driven (to a fault).. any new camera has to have atleast 10 to keep pace with D40x priced line. I guess they could do a 6 or 8mp but they would have to strip it down to D40 level...personally not my cup of tea but I see why Nikon is doing this...it's like get em young and attached to Nikon and they move up the Nikon line later in life (atleast this is the hope) and it's a good plan.
Astro Landscapes said:
While I praise Canon for bringing out the 5D, they should have paid
more attention to the amateur market, and Nikon will once again
steal the show with their next generations of pro bodies. And with
such a massive crop of new up-and-coming shooters who are turning
pro with their D70's and D80's, Nikon is probably hardly worrying
at all about the grumpy, older pros springing for a 5D. ;-)
Click to expand...
Nikon next generation pro-body is vaporware...atleast Canon is executing a very high level in this area. Nikon will have to do something groundbreaking to get ppl back. I dont see it happening anytime soon. The pro will analyze the situation and may chose Canon, you cannot count them out. I grew up with Nikon...but I am a happy Canon user crop and FF.
Astro Landscapes said:
Besides, the next generation LBCAST sensor will quiet you all
down... :-D
Click to expand...
it's harder then you think...if it was easy dont you think they would have done it by now. Vaporware again.. I do wish Nikon all the best ! Everyone benefits from competition.
Astro Landscapes said:
--
Take care!



http://www.matthewsaville.com
Click to expand...
--
Johnny
 
So here I am in Cabo San Lucas at the lovely Hotel Marquis, on a lifestyle shoot for 10 days.

I brought two 5D's and a 6x9 rangefinder. Then I read this total garbage and have to ask you, the guy who claims he is a pro in his profile, one thing:

After posting this gear headed BS you call your self a pro?
 
T3 said:
Nikon offers rebates on their products, too, you know. There's a
rebate right now on the D200. Does that mean that D200 sales are
in trouble? Of course not.
Click to expand...
Why not? Do you have Nikon's internal marketing reports?
T3 said:
Companies have always offered rebates.
It just allows them to sell even more cameras and generate even
more foot traffic to their sales counters.
Click to expand...
Foot traffic on the 'net? Curious... Not sure I have seen Olympus do this on DSLR's - anyone?

So, to get back to my original question - if Canon have such a unique and dominant position on mid-band FF DSLR's WHY are they having to offer rebates?

Jim
 
Jim Attfield said:
T3 said:
Nikon offers rebates on their products, too, you know. There's a
rebate right now on the D200. Does that mean that D200 sales are
in trouble? Of course not.
Click to expand...
Why not? Do you have Nikon's internal marketing reports?
Click to expand...
why ? do you ?
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
Companies have always offered rebates.
It just allows them to sell even more cameras and generate even
more foot traffic to their sales counters.
Click to expand...
Foot traffic on the 'net? Curious... Not sure I have seen Olympus
do this on DSLR's - anyone?
Click to expand...
they call it "surfing" right ?.. not exactly water related..blame Al gore since he invented it. :)
Jim Attfield said:
So, to get back to my original question - if Canon have such a
unique and dominant position on mid-band FF DSLR's WHY are they
having to offer rebates?
Click to expand...
They always have.. maybe it's a balance sheet type of thing to get the numbers before posting.. I'm saving money..I dont care why. It's not a badthing.. Maybe Oly does not do it because even a rebate wont make enough ppl buy their cameras :)
Jim Attfield said:
Jim
Click to expand...
--
Johnny
 
mmmmmmmm said:
Boy oh boy, the Nikon guys are really getting paranoid!!! Canon
seems to be going great guns and pushing the digital camera envelop
to new and higher levels.

unless Nikon comes out with some new cameras in the NEAR futher I
think several of the Nikon crowd will end up having strokes!!!

I personally own several Fuji cameras(including the S5) which is a
dream and a couple of D200's which I think is far overrated. Nice
body though. I think the 5D will do superb large family portraits
both in the studio and in home settings.

I will be purchasing the 5D for our new studio we are in the
process of opening up(by the end of September) in a very exclusive
area in a major city. I was hoping that Canon had an upgrade or
something for the 5D because just about the time I order it Canon
will hit the market with a newer model.

In the mean time, I hope we don't loose too many Nikoners to
strokes or heart attacks because Canon sure has them worried!!!
Respectgfully,
David Miller
Click to expand...
...I guess if you don't think you will gain something of value in the competitive market,...other than standing upon your hill and proclaiming.. "Canon is #1 & KING of the hill" ...because when Nikon releases competitive products, the prices of Canon's products come down..

Now,...don't you wish that Nikon would wear their pants for a change!!

About all they have going for them now are the old schoolers who's minds can't be changed no matter what.. and they will maintain a still very profitable camera company..(lazy)

JP

--
http://www.Myspace.com/JPphotographer

 
Film_Ruled said:
So here I am in Cabo San Lucas at the lovely Hotel Marquis, on a
lifestyle shoot for 10 days.

I brought two 5D's and a 6x9 rangefinder. Then I read this total
garbage and have to ask you, the guy who claims he is a pro in his
profile, one thing:

After posting this gear headed BS you call your self a pro?
Click to expand...
....I was wondering about that when the OP first started this thread. Pros are taking a hit here if he's any kind of actual example.

just kidding I guess
 
Johnny Gossett said:
Jim Attfield said:
Why not? Do you have Nikon's internal marketing reports?
Click to expand...
why ? do you ?
Click to expand...
Of course not. However, I didn't claim to know Nikon's internal marketing data. Do you?
JohnnyRX7 said:
JohnnyRX7 said:
Foot traffic on the 'net? Curious... Not sure I have seen Olympus
do this on DSLR's - anyone?
Click to expand...
they call it "surfing" right ?.. not exactly water related..blame
Al gore since he invented it. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, correct. I can see you are right on the ball. They don't call it foot traffic, though.
JohnnyRX7 said:
JohnnyRX7 said:
So, to get back to my original question - if Canon have such a
unique and dominant position on mid-band FF DSLR's WHY are they
having to offer rebates?
Click to expand...
They always have.. maybe it's a balance sheet type of thing to get
the numbers before posting.. I'm saving money..I dont care why.
It's not a badthing.. Maybe Oly does not do it because even a
rebate wont make enough ppl buy their cameras :)
Click to expand...
So you don't have an answer either.

Jim
 
Jim Attfield said:
Johnny Gossett said:
Jim Attfield said:
Why not? Do you have Nikon's internal marketing reports?
Click to expand...
why ? do you ?
Click to expand...
Of course not. However, I didn't claim to know Nikon's internal
marketing data. Do you?
Click to expand...
Nope
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
Foot traffic on the 'net? Curious... Not sure I have seen Olympus
do this on DSLR's - anyone?
Click to expand...
they call it "surfing" right ?.. not exactly water related..blame
Al gore since he invented it. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, correct. I can see you are right on the ball. They don't call
it foot traffic, though.
Click to expand...
webpage hits.. I hardly ever go to the canon webpage
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
So, to get back to my original question - if Canon have such a
unique and dominant position on mid-band FF DSLR's WHY are they
having to offer rebates?
Click to expand...
They always have.. maybe it's a balance sheet type of thing to get
the numbers before posting.. I'm saving money..I dont care why.
It's not a badthing.. Maybe Oly does not do it because even a
rebate wont make enough ppl buy their cameras :)
Click to expand...
So you don't have an answer either.
Click to expand...
no but I'm probably closer then you would like to admit :)
Jim Attfield said:
Jim
Click to expand...
--
Johnny
 
Frank Benvenuto said:
Frank Benvenuto said:
off soon.
--
Johnny
Click to expand...
Johnny,

Buy you haven't seen any of the really great games that are already
written for it.. producers are only waiting for the install base to
increase before releasing them.
--
Frank
Click to expand...
your probably right... waiting for Hot shots golf and gran turismo x.. GT is usually good enough for me to keep a system. Cant stand other racing games regardless of system.
--
Johnny
 
If you are concluding that the 5D is a poor selling camera because "Canon keep having to offer rebates to move them", that's simply erroneous. In Spring 2005, Canon had rebates in the US on the 20D and 1D MKII, which were definitely top sellers at that time. The rebates did not mean that they weren't selling.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/canon_usa_announces_rebate_program/

Then, in 2006, they had rebates on the 5D and and XT in the US. Now, there aren't any rebates at all in the US. I don't know where you get the idea that they "keep having to offer rebates" on the 5D. Maybe you are seeing rebates that are running in Europe, but not in the US. Then, when you see rebates running in the US, they aren't running in Europe. Somewhere in the world, at one time or another, there is a rebate running. And therefore, you are concluding that Canon "keep having to offer rebates", even though it's in different markets at different times. And now that there aren't any rebates running at all in the US, what are you concluding?

And by the way, as an Olympus user, you might be interested to know that there are 2,859 Canon 5D users in pbase.com's user database. That's actually more than all the Oly 4/3 users on pbase.com combined: E-1, 724 users. E-300, 658 users. E-500, 594 users. E-330, 58 users.

So, rebates or not, it seems that Canon is doing just fine moving 5D's. Besides, the 5D was never meant to be a mass-market, general-user camera. It's primarily designed for wedding, portrait, studio photographers who needed a more affordable alternative than the 1Ds MKII. So the fact that it's still doing quite well amongst the general market is just a bonus.
Jim Attfield said:
Johnny Gossett said:
Jim Attfield said:
Why not? Do you have Nikon's internal marketing reports?
Click to expand...
why ? do you ?
Click to expand...
Of course not. However, I didn't claim to know Nikon's internal
marketing data. Do you?
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
Foot traffic on the 'net? Curious... Not sure I have seen Olympus
do this on DSLR's - anyone?
Click to expand...
they call it "surfing" right ?.. not exactly water related..blame
Al gore since he invented it. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, correct. I can see you are right on the ball. They don't call
it foot traffic, though.
Jim Attfield said:
Jim Attfield said:
So, to get back to my original question - if Canon have such a
unique and dominant position on mid-band FF DSLR's WHY are they
having to offer rebates?
Click to expand...
They always have.. maybe it's a balance sheet type of thing to get
the numbers before posting.. I'm saving money..I dont care why.
It's not a badthing.. Maybe Oly does not do it because even a
rebate wont make enough ppl buy their cameras :)
Click to expand...
So you don't have an answer either.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Tim in upstate NY said:
......As a Canon user, I feel uncomfortable reading this kind of
silly talk about strokes and heart attacks. The Nikon users that I
know are quite happy with their cameras and aren't about to get
upset about what models are or aren't going be introduced in the
near future. Your tone and choice of words sounds a little too much
like gloating to suit me.
Click to expand...
Totally true.....words of wisdom.......what does this kind of talk have to do anything with photography? Canon, Nikon, Oly, are at the top. I dont expect any of them to disappear in the near future, but hopefully keep releasing quality products because ultimately competition and rivalry keeps companies honest and consumers happy with lower prices and better goods. Look at Hasselblad (wicked pro cameras)........they have no direct competition because companies like Nikon, Canon, etc haven't ventured into the market.....

Hasselblad H3D = $25,000 - $35,000?

3 cheers for canon, nikon, sony, oly, fuji, etc etc.....
 
rrcphoto said:
David Martin said:
..You have made no specific arguments
Click to expand...
and did I have to? I'm sorry I got ticked off, but you can't have
an intelligent convo in the nikon forum with anything that
disagrees with their own masses without the pack mentality taking
over in there, and accusations, personal attacks and insults flying
  • then so be it, but don't come in here with a holier than thou
attitude.
Click to expand...
Thom is a good guy. He is by far the most knowledgeable person on Nikon out there and a darn good photographer on top of that. The rumour has it that he also shoots with a Canon 1ds2 now and then.

I have always found his positions on the Canon/Nikon matter to be pretty objective, and was a bit surprised by your reaction to his post.

Cheers,
Bernard
 
matthew saville said:
Then the D80 is more affordable than the 30D, while offering a couple
attractive advantages. And the D200 is just without parallel in the
Canon system; the 30D is far less professional
Click to expand...
Surely your not talking about IQ and image-capturing capabilty... especially in less than ideal conditions.

Here's a couple of high-iso shots from the far less professional 30D:-)

ISO 3200, 1/80", F4 (Slight PP to increase exposure by 2/3)



ISO 3200, 1/125", F4 (No PP... straight out of the camera)



--

'A true friend is someone who knows you're a good egg even if you're a little cracked.' - Unknown
 
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