Canon Flaming

Roger LePage · Feb 27, 2002

I am growing very tired of reading negative comments about Canon and the D30/D60. The D60 isn’t on the shelves yet and everyone is declaring it a piece of junk. I purchased a D30 this spring, it has taken over most of the photography I had used a Hasselblad for. I still use the Hasselblad for magazine covers. I’ve used the D30 for catalog, fashion, portraits and even food photography that I had previously shot with 4x5. Every time I down load images, the camera impresses me, I guess that’s what matters. The company I work for purchased a Canon D2000 ($12,000) few years ago, the D30 images kicks it’s but. If the D60 has all the qualities of D30 and more rez, GREAT. Cameras are just a piece of equipment, not perfect, doesn’t matter what brand, get comfortable with it and make the most of what it has.

going_digital · Feb 27, 2002

I agree, I bought the D30 last november because I liked what it did for the price. If I had not gotten a D30 and was still looking for a DSLR, I'd love the D60 because it is better than the D30.

The D30 does everything I want it to do, except wide angle. I've taken more pictures since I got it (4 months now) than I have in several years because it's quality is so high and there is not film/processing cost. In fact, I am now on the threshold of being able to make MPEG2 photosequences with soundtracks onto DVD so that these "archives" can be viewed on the wide screen.

The only reason I don't upgrade to D60 is that the D30 is good for what I need, and my ego says I will wait until they achieve full frame. Even the rumored 1DS may not get there (Canon D6000 in 1V body). Contax is interesting but I worry about the cost of lenses. Maybe within 2 years, there will be a full frame Canon - then I'd be motivated to move. In the meantime, 6mp without full frame would require me to increase the compact flash capacity and increases workflow time.

DavidP #28649 · Feb 27, 2002

I don't think anybody's called the D-60 junk. In many ways, it's better than the D-30. In a few, maybe not quite as good.

That doesn't mean it's the camera for everybody considering an upgrade. It may very well be a good upgrade for some people, though.

What you're seeing is people trying to make decisions about whether to upgrade, and to what they should be upgrading.

And some complaining because the D-60 isn't what some hoped it might be.

Roger LePage said:
I am growing very tired of reading negative comments about Canon
and the D30/D60. The D60 isn’t on the shelves yet and everyone is
declaring it a piece of junk. I purchased a D30 this spring, it
has taken over most of the photography I had used a Hasselblad for.
I still use the Hasselblad for magazine covers. I’ve used the D30
for catalog, fashion, portraits and even food photography that I
had previously shot with 4x5. Every time I down load images, the
camera impresses me, I guess that’s what matters. The company I
work for purchased a Canon D2000 ($12,000) few years ago, the D30
images kicks it’s but. If the D60 has all the qualities of D30 and
more rez, GREAT. Cameras are just a piece of equipment, not
perfect, doesn’t matter what brand, get comfortable with it and
make the most of what it has.

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.netPhotography -- just another word for compromise

BC32072 · Feb 27, 2002

Roger,

You are the first person on this forum that seems to shoot like me. I have had the same experience. The D30 has put my Hasselblad in the closet. I scanned my own 2 1/4 with a Minolta Dimage Multi and the D30 was better than that. D60 is a little better and I could use it but I'd love to see 16MP Foveon on the Hasselblad. Goodbye everything else!

Who do you work for? The company that is.

BC

wmcdowell · Feb 27, 2002

thanks for your post.

i just purchased a d30 w/16-35L for product shots and my own fine art photos. i too am amazed how easily people find fault with equipment like this. i am always amazed at the quality and smoothness of the pics and color. people lose site of the goal so easily and forget where they were only a short time ago.

can't imagine needing much more then the d30 and some good lenes, unless you need the high res. for 133 lpi repros.--W.

james · Feb 27, 2002

What a breath of fresh air!!!!

I have read this forum for the last week or so and thought what a huge bunch of immature technocrats (wankers) there are on here.

We have had all manner of posturing and people making decisions based on a product that is not even in production. I have read people say things, like "and for this reason or that reason (AF only down to 0.2 EV or somesuch) I will not upgrade my d30 for at least another year,' yet those selfsame people are liable to change their minds with the next rush of blood they have to the head. Not to mention the next really favourable review.

The point of the d30 that misses a lot of people is the difference it makes on the printed page in a magazine or book, and that is what will make professionals like myself consider it a must-have upgrade.

To date, pics inside the publication smaller than 7" x 5" are covered by the d30, but double page spreads and covers usually have to be film. The d30 makes it possible to cover all the bases with one camera.

This is truly a breakthrough, pure and simple.

For the person printing to an Epson printer, it probably doesn't matter so much, although I reckon you will see a big improvements in your uprezzed A3 prints.

--CheersJames Young http://yjy.biz

james · Feb 27, 2002

And to the people about to jump ship to Nikon D100 on the basis of what they have read here, I think God is trying to tell you something:

You have too much money!--CheersJames Young http://yjy.biz

Karl Guttag · Feb 27, 2002

While there has been some "flaming," I think there is mostly some justified disappointment. Over the last year and 5 months (or so), the AF issues has seemed to be the most common “legitimate” problem have on these forums. One would think that Canon would have taken the issue more seriously. While I would also appreciate a bigger imager, I understand the cost impact involved. I find hard to justify, based on cost, not having addressed the AF issues better.

Some have theorized that it is not a cost but a “preserving market” for the more expensive 1D. In any event, it does look like Canon ignored the most common concern of serious D30 users.

Most of the people “complaining” about the Autofocus are not asking for 1D/1V like performance, just something that works like a mid-range film camera. Something they could use to shoot an amateur sporting event.

Personally, I am frustrated because I was ready to pay $3,000 if the AF was better. While there are some other features enhancements of the D60 that I like, they did not fix my number one issue with the D30. I’m not ready to make the jump all the way to a 1D.

I’m caught betwixt and between with the D60 and 1D. I want a digital SLR with better AF. I’m not sure I’m ready to dump my relatively new lens collection to go with Nikon and the not yet available and tested D100. So I think that I am with a lot of people that hope that Canon gets hammered a bit by the D100 with a better AF system (which it reportedly should have from the F80), for either playing “cute” protecting the 1D market or because they ignored their customers’ concerns with the D30. I believe that the free market tends to take care of these things in the long run, but it can be frustrating in the short run.

Karl

Roger LePage said:
I am growing very tired of reading negative comments about Canon
and the D30/D60. The D60 isn’t on the shelves yet and everyone is
declaring it a piece of junk. I purchased a D30 this spring, it
has taken over most of the photography I had used a Hasselblad for.
I still use the Hasselblad for magazine covers. I’ve used the D30
for catalog, fashion, portraits and even food photography that I
had previously shot with 4x5. Every time I down load images, the
camera impresses me, I guess that’s what matters. The company I
work for purchased a Canon D2000 ($12,000) few years ago, the D30
images kicks it’s but. If the D60 has all the qualities of D30 and
more rez, GREAT. Cameras are just a piece of equipment, not
perfect, doesn’t matter what brand, get comfortable with it and
make the most of what it has.

--Karl

BayAreaFoto.com · Feb 27, 2002

The one major improvement that most of us need (myself included) is better photography skills, and too many of us expect buy those skills with the latest and greatest cameras (eventhough no one wants to admit). When our photos with the new camera still don't come out the way we want, it's easy to blame it on the camera than what's behind the viewfinder.

Do I want a better camera? Sure I do. But will a better camera like the D60/1D makes me a better photographer? Surely not! So do I NEED a new camera beyond my D30? NOT until I'm so good that someone else would willing to buy it for me.

If the D30 is good enough for a pro like you, why shouldn't it be good enough for an amateur like me.

Roger LePage said:
I am growing very tired of reading negative comments about Canon
and the D30/D60. The D60 isn’t on the shelves yet and everyone is
declaring it a piece of junk. I purchased a D30 this spring, it
has taken over most of the photography I had used a Hasselblad for.
I still use the Hasselblad for magazine covers. I’ve used the D30
for catalog, fashion, portraits and even food photography that I
had previously shot with 4x5. Every time I down load images, the
camera impresses me, I guess that’s what matters. The company I
work for purchased a Canon D2000 ($12,000) few years ago, the D30
images kicks it’s but. If the D60 has all the qualities of D30 and
more rez, GREAT. Cameras are just a piece of equipment, not
perfect, doesn’t matter what brand, get comfortable with it and
make the most of what it has.

--TN http://www.photovideodisc.com

William J Fleury · Feb 27, 2002

The D30 is great camera, I feel the D60 will do just as well and better cameras will come in time. My D30 is 15 months old now and works fine, I see know need to relpace it at this time. My 93 Jeep still runs good too, but someday both the Jeep and D30 will need to be replaced. The new car, probley a Jeep, will be better than the one I have now, and I am sure that the camera , probley a Canon, well be better then the D30.

I would love to have the money to buy a new car every year, and to buy every new model of camera that comes out, but I don't. WJF

zidar · Feb 27, 2002

whoa! What a sorehead!

How many Sigma zoom lenses do YOU own dude?

The Fabulous Zidar

pnorbo · Feb 27, 2002

(wankers eh?!) The d30 maybe good for a bird sleeping on a dock or a sleeping cat but stay away from your kids b day party in low light! For sure the d30 produces excellent colour for a pic of a church or a bunch of flowers but stay away from that jr.school football game. and the d30 produces excellent photos of table settings or still lifes but what about the drunken holiday bar shoots at 2am? And it seems to have less dust probs. than a CCD, so why o why can t this awesome camera have even half decent af!!!

come on its both pros and ams up in arms about the d30s lackluster af. And it never had to be that way! Even a $200 REBEL HAS BETTER AF!! Its a canon corp. marketing scam to generate future sales. Eos bodies from 14 years ago had better af (eos 650).

If I could go to the darkside I would have but I like many others are locked in. Too much glass and far to much use: low resale.

james said:
What a breath of fresh air!!!!

I have read this forum for the last week or so and thought what a
huge bunch of immature technocrats (wankers) there are on here.

We have had all manner of posturing and people making decisions
based on a product that is not even in production. I have read
people say things, like "and for this reason or that reason (AF
only down to 0.2 EV or somesuch) I will not upgrade my d30 for at
least another year,' yet those selfsame people are liable to change
their minds with the next rush of blood they have to the head. Not
to mention the next really favourable review.
Cheers
James Young
http://yjy.biz

Dean O · Feb 28, 2002

Well said.

JohnM31499 · Feb 28, 2002

Karlg said:
While there has been some "flaming," I think there is mostly some
justified disappointment. Over the last year and 5 months (or so),
the AF issues has seemed to be the most common “legitimate” problem
have on these forums. One would think that Canon would have taken
the issue more seriously. While I would also appreciate a bigger
imager, I understand the cost impact involved. I find hard to
justify, based on cost, not having addressed the AF issues better.

Some have theorized that it is not a cost but a “preserving market”
for the more expensive 1D. In any event, it does look like Canon
ignored the most common concern of serious D30 users.

Most of the people “complaining” about the Autofocus are not asking
for 1D/1V like performance, just something that works like a
mid-range film camera. Something they could use to shoot an
amateur sporting event.

Personally, I am frustrated because I was ready to pay $3,000 if
the AF was better. While there are some other features
enhancements of the D60 that I like, they did not fix my number one
issue with the D30. I’m not ready to make the jump all the way to
a 1D.

I’m caught betwixt and between with the D60 and 1D. I want a
digital SLR with better AF. I’m not sure I’m ready to dump my
relatively new lens collection to go with Nikon and the not yet
available and tested D100. So I think that I am with a lot of
people that hope that Canon gets hammered a bit by the D100 with a
better AF system (which it reportedly should have from the F80),
for either playing “cute” protecting the 1D market or because they
ignored their customers’ concerns with the D30. I believe that
the free market tends to take care of these things in the long run,
but it can be frustrating in the short run.

MikeA · Feb 28, 2002

Here we have a working pro [did you notice?], writing (for instance):

I’ve used the D30 for catalog, fashion, portraits and even
food photography that I had previously shot with 4x5. Every
time I down load images, the camera impresses me

... and with justification taking people to task for sometimes hotly criticizng a new system they haven't even had a chance to use yet -- and to all that, you offer this simple-minded, yet strangely inarticulate

response:

zidar said:
whoa! What a sorehead!
How many Sigma zoom lenses do YOU own dude?

Uh, how's that again? What he wrote sounded like "sorehead" talk to you? Well, that's downright brilliant ... dude.

zidar said:
The Fabulous Zidar

Not fabulous enough...

William J Fleury · Feb 28, 2002

I was trying to figue out what he was talking about too.

MikeA · Feb 28, 2002

pnorbo said:
(wankers eh?!) The d30 maybe good for a bird sleeping on a dock or
a sleeping cat

Zounds! You've pegged it! Birds on a dock (well, if they're sleeping) and kitty-cats. But anything else? Nah. Well then, this feller I correspond with (a professional photographer...let me repeat that, just in case it slipped by without notice... professional photographer) must have merely imagined that just about the first shot he took with his new D30, in the studio, knocked his (and my) socks clean off. And funny...it wasn't a picture of a duck snoozing on a dock...or a kitty cat.

Well, he must have imagined it...remarkable illusion...

pnorbo said:
but stay away from your kids b day party in low light!

Thanks. I'm going to dry that one out, press it in between the pages of a book, and keep it for a rainy day. Damn, but I love this forum. There's just no END to the knowledge.

pnorbo said:
For sure the d30 produces excellent colour for a pic of a
church or a bunch of flowers

Oh, for sure.

pnorbo said:
but stay away from that jr.school football game.

Omigod! I had no idea the situation was THAT DIRE!

pnorbo said:
and the d30 produces excellent photos of table
settings or still lifes but what about the drunken holiday bar
shoots at 2am?

Uh, ever seen the shots one of the Canon forum semi-regulars has taken at clubs in L.A.? With flash? Ever seen how well they turned out? (If you like that sort of thing.)

Well, perhaps not. (With his D30, by the way. A minor detail, to be sure; don't be troubled by it. Damned if I know how he did it, considering that the shots appeared to be taken in fairly low light, and there's not a sleeping sandpiper or an impossibly cute kitten in sight.)

Could it be that the skill of the photographer "makes" the shot? Quick! Let's take a vote! How did ANY photographer who had only a Speed Graphic -- with flash bulbs -- available to him EVER get a decent photograph out of the thing? You want to talk about lousy autofocus. Aha -- remarkable coincidence here -- speaking of which:

pnorbo said:
why o why can t this awesome camera have even half decent af!!!

Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. It's what everyone says. Repeatedly. Also emphatically. The autofocus must be lousy, then...but I keep noticing that for what I do, the autofocus is damned good. Weird. I wonder if this kind of cognitive dissonance is covered in the DSM-IV. (Fortunately, there's a custom-function selection for turning off the dissonance, or at least the "endless beep" part of it. Damned good feature, don't you think?) (It's the one just before the "auto-bracket sleeping bird::1/3 stop; 1/2 stop; hopeless underexposure; argh, sudden battery failure" selection.)

pnorbo said:
Even a $200 REBEL HAS BETTER AF!!

Damned straight! Your best move, then -- no doubt about it: buy a $200 Rebel. (B.t.w., buying a $200 Rebel instead of a D30 automatically entitles a person NOT to feel compelled to take any sleeping-swan photos -- and no adorable-kitty-cat-sitting-on-windowsill shots, either. Be relieved! I know I would be.)

pnorbo said:
Its a canon corp. marketing scam to generate future sales. Eos
bodies from 14 years ago had better af (eos 650).

Oops. I'm wrong. Sorry. Your best move, then: buy a 14-year-old EOS body.

Imagine that. A corporation trying to sell you something. That is just, like, SO Enron.

pnorbo said:
If I could go to the darkside I would have but I like many others
are locked in. Too much glass and far to much use: low resale.

It's true. Things are dismal Out There. Not only is the glass half-empty, but it's dirty, and there are some chips out of it around the rim, plus it's an ugly design to begin with, and geez, that gross color. I just hate it when this kind of thing happens. Not to mention the lousy autofocus. No, seriously.

MikeA · Feb 28, 2002

WJ Fleury said:
I was trying to figue out what he was talking about too.

Mmmm...something about Sigma lenses and soreheadedness...couldn't quite make out the light in the middle of all that murk...dude.

Well, Sigma lenses must have SOMETHING to do with it, or they wouldn't have been mentioned in the first place, now would they?

But then maybe it just isn't for us ordinary mortals to know. ;-)

Joo · Feb 28, 2002

D30Photo said:
The one major improvement that most of us need (myself included) is
better photography skills, and too many of us expect buy those
skills with the latest and greatest cameras (eventhough no one
wants to admit). When our photos with the new camera still don't
come out the way we want, it's easy to blame it on the camera than
what's behind the viewfinder.

Do I want a better camera? Sure I do. But will a better camera
like the D60/1D makes me a better photographer? Surely not! So do I
NEED a new camera beyond my D30? NOT until I'm so good that someone
else would willing to buy it for me.

If the D30 is good enough for a pro like you, why shouldn't it be
good enough for an amateur like me.

Because you may not be shooting the same things as the "pro". And just because someone is an "amatuer" does not automatically mean they are less skilled than a "pro". And just because someone is a "pro" does not mean they are automatically more skilled than an "amateur".

--- Canon D-30 & PowerShot S100- Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll blame the equipment.

Joo · Feb 28, 2002

I am growing very tired of negative comments about post that identify potential short comings of the D60 and the inadequacies of the D60 for certain people. These people who are flaming the canon flaming don't seem to realize:

A) that there are other people who have different photographic needs from them
B) Wanted to upgrade to the D60

C) Don't feel that the D60 is enough of an "improvement" to justify handing over their money to Canon.

D) Wanting the D60 to be better than it is / will be does not equate to wanting the D60 to be a 1D. That there can be / is a middle ground between the 1D and D60 that allows the D60 to be improved without approaching the quality of the 1D.

Joo

Roger LePage said:
I am growing very tired of reading negative comments about Canon
and the D30/D60. The D60 isn’t on the shelves yet and everyone is
declaring it a piece of junk. I purchased a D30 this spring, it
has taken over most of the photography I had used a Hasselblad for.
I still use the Hasselblad for magazine covers. I’ve used the D30
for catalog, fashion, portraits and even food photography that I
had previously shot with 4x5. Every time I down load images, the
camera impresses me, I guess that’s what matters. The company I
work for purchased a Canon D2000 ($12,000) few years ago, the D30
images kicks it’s but. If the D60 has all the qualities of D30 and
more rez, GREAT. Cameras are just a piece of equipment, not
perfect, doesn’t matter what brand, get comfortable with it and
make the most of what it has.

--- Canon D-30 & PowerShot S100- Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll blame the equipment.

Canon Flaming

New member

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

james

Guest

james

Guest

Senior Member

Leading Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Keyboard shortcuts