Would you pay a subscription fee for this forum?

While I agree with your desires, define "everyday discussion" ;)

However, I must mention that In fact I strongly agree. I have been on this board since it spawned and a lot of the serious contributors are gone. I loosely monitor this forum now just to see if there is some neat new gadget that has come out. I hate to admit it but I look at other sites for serious dialogue on technique (for both digital and traditional issues). There are even more serious equipment discussions going on there as well.

On the flip side, the newbies DO need a site to ask "is the 28-135 any good?" Searches are not always the best way to get the desired information.

Would a moderated fee based forum retain some of the more serious contributors? I would hope so.

Comments?
And what if a newbie did pay? And ask "first lens advise" questions?
the featue called "Insta-Boot" or "Insta-Ban" would kick in... and
that would be the last of that...

the point is to pay a premium to get away from the everyday
discussion, and concentrate more on technique... there are some
posts here that deal with that, but they tend to get washed away in
the avalanche of nonsense... before most people get to see them,
they're on page 15...

of course the pay forum would be moderated by someone to ensure
that none of this type of thing goes on...
 
I would not pay. The majority of banter on this site seems to be from folks interested in the latest gadgetry. While there is some discussion of photography and I find the technical information interesting, it's not something I'd pay for. There are other free sites such as zuga.net and fredmiranda.com as well as the usenet newsgroups with similar information and they are free.

P.S.

I was taken aback by Phil's urging folks to support his site by paying ridiculous prices for the D60.

Jaz

-- http://www.jackzucker.com
 
that's exactly my point... since i've been on this forum, and it hasn't been THAT long, the amount of serious discussions has gone down tremendously...

there's nothing wrong with discussing equipment, especially on the forum dedicated to using such equipment... but there has to be a line drawn somewhere...

the popularity of this forum is also it's biggest downfall... as i mentioned in one of my other posts, if a message is over two hours old, it's gone to the second page... a day, and it's as good as gone for good...

i'm not really sure what to suggest, but i guess this would have to be a collective effort between all active forum contributors...

ps... this weekend a buddy and i were talking about starting our own site dedicated to dslr users in NY area... we had some good ideas, but haven't followed up on it since... maybe i should give him a call...
However, I must mention that In fact I strongly agree. I have been
on this board since it spawned and a lot of the serious
contributors are gone. I loosely monitor this forum now just to
see if there is some neat new gadget that has come out. I hate to
admit it but I look at other sites for serious dialogue on
technique (for both digital and traditional issues). There are
even more serious equipment discussions going on there as well.

On the flip side, the newbies DO need a site to ask "is the 28-135
any good?" Searches are not always the best way to get the desired
information.

Would a moderated fee based forum retain some of the more serious
contributors? I would hope so.

Comments?
And what if a newbie did pay? And ask "first lens advise" questions?
the featue called "Insta-Boot" or "Insta-Ban" would kick in... and
that would be the last of that...

the point is to pay a premium to get away from the everyday
discussion, and concentrate more on technique... there are some
posts here that deal with that, but they tend to get washed away in
the avalanche of nonsense... before most people get to see them,
they're on page 15...

of course the pay forum would be moderated by someone to ensure
that none of this type of thing goes on...
 
This seems to be the perfect idea. How would you get Phil's input on
this?

Scott Olds - can you email a couple of links to the other sites and forums
you mentioned? I promise not to post too much and keep on topic (^:

Maybe all the serious people should defect to Fred's or Pekka's forum -
those of you who aren't already there (^; No offense Phil - I could never
leave DP - a serious pay forum would be cool though.

Brian
there's nothing wrong with discussing equipment, especially on the
forum dedicated to using such equipment... but there has to be a
line drawn somewhere...

the popularity of this forum is also it's biggest downfall... as i
mentioned in one of my other posts, if a message is over two hours
old, it's gone to the second page... a day, and it's as good as
gone for good...

i'm not really sure what to suggest, but i guess this would have to
be a collective effort between all active forum contributors...

ps... this weekend a buddy and i were talking about starting our
own site dedicated to dslr users in NY area... we had some good
ideas, but haven't followed up on it since... maybe i should give
him a call...
However, I must mention that In fact I strongly agree. I have been
on this board since it spawned and a lot of the serious
contributors are gone. I loosely monitor this forum now just to
see if there is some neat new gadget that has come out. I hate to
admit it but I look at other sites for serious dialogue on
technique (for both digital and traditional issues). There are
even more serious equipment discussions going on there as well.

On the flip side, the newbies DO need a site to ask "is the 28-135
any good?" Searches are not always the best way to get the desired
information.

Would a moderated fee based forum retain some of the more serious
contributors? I would hope so.

Comments?
And what if a newbie did pay? And ask "first lens advise" questions?
the featue called "Insta-Boot" or "Insta-Ban" would kick in... and
that would be the last of that...

the point is to pay a premium to get away from the everyday
discussion, and concentrate more on technique... there are some
posts here that deal with that, but they tend to get washed away in
the avalanche of nonsense... before most people get to see them,
they're on page 15...

of course the pay forum would be moderated by someone to ensure
that none of this type of thing goes on...
 
Lets talk numbers:
Willing to pay $5 a year to be a member reply to me

Willing to pay $10 a year reply to Phil

Ps I will pay $10 as soon as i hear that it is the rate
After some discussion in Phil's post about preordering a D60 through
State Street Photo - which would help support the site - an idea was
brought up about paying a fee to use this site. I think it is a
great idea
for a couple of reasons.

1. It would do the obvious and possibly eliminate some of the banner
ads and the need for Phil to look for extra support.

2. It would drive off some of the trollers and other unwanted posters
from this group that seem to have nothing better to do.

3. All in all make for a more usefull site.

Would you be willing to pay? If yes how much? If no, why

Brian
--Pips
 
We already support Phil by checking in regularly to read news and forums. At every page view Phil gets a banner add display, for which he will receive a certain amount of money - not much per view but it adds up.

Good times for Phil, is when we have the rumour mill going, and when we are awaiting new reviews of new cameras like the D60, as it causes more people to check in and thus causes more banner add exposures.

So, in short - NO!--Kjeld Olesen http://www.geocities.com/acapixus
 
After some discussion in Phil's post about preordering a D60 through
State Street Photo - which would help support the site - an idea was
brought up about paying a fee to use this site. I think it is a
great idea
for a couple of reasons.

1. It would do the obvious and possibly eliminate some of the banner
ads and the need for Phil to look for extra support.
The ads in the current form does not disturb me very much.
2. It would drive off some of the trollers and other unwanted posters
from this group that seem to have nothing better to do.

3. All in all make for a more usefull site.
There are two issues here: MoneyToPhil and BetterPostingQuality.

For the MoneyToPhil issue its unclear if he really needs it. I would think that it would be counterproductive for him to introduce fees since he would get less traffic meaning less money from advertisers. I don't think the fees would outweigh the lost traffic since not many would be willing to pay. And it would be a piece of cake for someone to set up similar forums without the fees. If he really needs it I'd say a model would be to supply to levels on each review: a shallow level with basic product info and conclusions, a deeper level for which you have to pay a few bucks but would then get the full review.

For me the important issue is how to get BetterPostingQuality. The amount of noise has increased very much lately. One way to attack that would be to add rating buttons to the page for each message. When I've read it I simply press one of the rating buttons and the rate for the message is updated. The updating is based on how well rated my previous messages have been. Thus if other people rates my posts highly, I'm considered knowledgeable (a source of information and not noise!), abd thus my ratings are of higher value. It would not be hard to develop some nice formulas for this (something along how google rates the pages).

When I read the forums I can sort messages by rating or they can be color-coded based on rating or I can set a treshold so that lower-rated messages are not shown.

Regards,

Goran
 
Hang in there things will get back to normal shortly.
There is always a feeding frenzy at new model time and not just in this forum.

On your suggestion about a fee..... this was discussed sometime back last year and the consensus then was NO.

Jim C.
Brian
Obviously, that includes techniques and samples as they relate to
the Canon SLRs, but I would expect alot of equipment oriented posts.

Jim

Brian Hansen wrote:
It just seems like true photograph discussion has
greatly diminished lately
 
I use this forum a lot, but I wouldn't pay more than a few dollars a month...

Certainly nothing more than $10 x month...

And at that point ($5 to $10 x month) I would want to see more reviews and about other things besides cameras (e.g. printers, scanners, media, etc.)--Carlo [email protected]
 
I am a 'newbie' and have been reading this forum for only a couple of weeks posting rarely as most questions can be answered if you use the search feature first.

If all the pros ran off to a private 'pay forum' and I did need "first lens advice" the question would be answered by another 'newbie', and hardly beneficial.

I know it gets tiresome answering the same questions over and over. So maybe some (most) of the clutter could be left behind by forcing a search of past threads before a new thread can be started. It seems this would help if there are any bandwidth issues.

I am a 'newbie' but I need advice from the great knowledgable people on this forum, not just another 'newbie'.
something where you would not have to see the same "first lens
advise" type of questions... the members of a private forum will
still be able to use the public forum, but will have a place to get
away from basically the same questions that are asked almost daily
here...

it would make for a better exchange of ideas, and certainly be a
better place to improve your skills...
--S. HartSeeing the beauty of life through a camera's eye!
 
there's nothing wrong with discussing equipment, especially on the
forum dedicated to using such equipment... but there has to be a
line drawn somewhere...
but the same Qs over and over again?!
the popularity of this forum is also it's biggest downfall... as i
mentioned in one of my other posts, if a message is over two hours
old, it's gone to the second page... a day, and it's as good as
gone for good...
perhaps the ability to change the number of threads/page. though i suppose that would slow the server down. other than that there could be a 'thread filter' to discard the junk.--.ICQ Canon EOS activelist 136431230---BreezeBrowser RAW conversion times http://www.davidbirkin.com
 
Brian Hansen wrote:
1. It would do the obvious and possibly eliminate some of the banner
ads and the need for Phil to look for extra support.
I have no problem with banner ads as they provide revenue as well as additional information.
2. It would drive off some of the trollers and other unwanted posters
from this group that seem to have nothing better to do.
Trollers are like bad drivers. They're a part of the landscape and you either get use to them or go nuts.
3. All in all make for a more usefull site.
None of what you described above will make this a more useful site.
Would you be willing to pay? If yes how much? If no, why
My below is not trying to be nasty or otherwise, it's intended strictly in the thought provoking vein.

Phil needs to do the math as to what it costs him in time and effort. A reasonable evaluative process. He then needs to figure out if he's doing this as a labor of love or he's doing it for profit. If this is a commercial venture, advertising dollars are a finite commodity that needs to actively be pursued as the advertising dollars don't come in the door voluntarily. That means, office overhead, sales staff, meetings and yes, actively advertising for new subscribers in different photo mags to get and maintain a subscriber base.

Food for thought below:

I have a business and have had for twenty-three years. I'm degreed in Professional Photography and as of recently, aquired a very nice lens kit that would allow me to pursue earlier dreams of pro-photography. BUT, I already have a viable business that treats me VERY well. For me to switch over to professional photography at this time and point, would throw me into a HUGE learning curve, business wise. The point, just because you can do it, doesn't make it the wise choice.

That being said, it's up to Phil to decide since he wants to make this a subscription based venture, costs need to be offset by revenues. How many subscriptions will he need to sell and what additional benefits will he provide above what is already being provided. Benefits, which I am greatful for I might add. Then it's up to Phil to sell the idea that he'll be providing, as of the stated date, a subscription based service and it will be up to the consumer to decide if they'll want to give up their credit card number once a year to help support a fee based web site.

Changing to a fee based site is not an unreasonable thought but since people are notoriously cheap and there are so many excellent photographic sites, I must say, the "we are spoiled" factor might kick in.

I'm not against the idea, I think there's more to the conversation then just Phil and I were talking, what do you think guys.

Hope the above is helpful.
 
I used to find this forum very useful, one of the best places on the net for information on Canon D-SLR's. While there are still some reasonable threads, it has degenerated over the past several months into mostly either speculation and rumours about Canon's product plans or, following an announcement by Canon, whining about and bashing of the new products.

I wouldn't pay for a subscription to the current forum. It seems everyone here wants to be Canon's product manager for digital cameras, but I'm not interested in reading their fantasies.
 
The only problem with this method is that people would be hesitant to
post for fear of getting lower ratings. A private pay forum would
would encourage people to post - and the right people - because
they are paying to be there to read and contribute.

Brian
For me the important issue is how to get BetterPostingQuality. The
amount of noise has increased very much lately. One way to attack
that would be to add rating buttons to the page for each message.
When I've read it I simply press one of the rating buttons and the
rate for the message is updated. The updating is based on how well
rated my previous messages have been. Thus if other people rates my
posts highly, I'm considered knowledgeable (a source of information
and not noise!), abd thus my ratings are of higher value. It would
not be hard to develop some nice formulas for this (something along
how google rates the pages).

When I read the forums I can sort messages by rating or they can be
color-coded based on rating or I can set a treshold so that
lower-rated messages are not shown.

Regards,

Goran
 
I don't have a problem with making voluntary donations to an endeavor like Phil's. I have only been here a few weeks but already I have learned way more about digital photography than I knew before I started visiting dpreview.com

Here are some of my thoughts, stream of consciousness style, based on my own thoughts and reiterating some others' posts:
  • By giving a donation, I would not feel like I was paying for information; rather, I feel like I'm helping build a real community that has value to me.
  • I don't think that donations should be mandatory, but perhaps could give token goodies to those who decide to donate:
  • dpreview.com or other "vanity" e-mail addresses (I got a photo.net e-mail by donating to that site)
  • server storage space that isn't available to members who do not donate money.
  • discounts from certain retailers, or for certain products (ritzcamera.com gives a 10% discount on many products to students of the New York Institute of Photography)
  • other small-value cyber-goodies that wouldn't have to be mailed (long-distance minutes, discounts on workshops, discounts on magazines, etc.)
--Curtis CleggFalls church, [email protected]
 

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