Just can't decide (F31 vs. TZ3)

Hi there !

I'm going to buy a new P&S camera, and I just can't decide which one is going to be my Precious.

I want the output of the camera to be usable as is, I DON'T want to do any PP of any kind. Pocketability is important. I will mostly print in 4*6. Low light shots / moving subjects shots are important. Big zoom and wide angle are a plus (that I can't evaluate as I've never used a camera with such features). And I will buy a DSLR at some point (not shortly however). My current P&S is a Canon A95 and I won't forgive a lower quality on my new camera, whatever are the additionnal features. In fact, I want to have a better image quality.

The F31 is almost the perfect camera looking at those requirements. But here comes the TZ3 with its fu* ing 28-280mm... The way I see it now, the F31 will give me better photos than the TZ3 in a given situation, especially in low light, but the TZ3 is more versatile. The F31 will give me shots of moving subjects that the TZ3 will never be able to give me. The TZ3 will give me shots at wide angle and telephoto that the F31 will never be able to give me.

Obviously, I'm not asking you to make the choice for me. I would like to have your thoughts on my situation (pretty critical one, isn't it ? ) and on the TZ3. What do you think of its image quality as Fuji users ?

Help...

Thank you very much !

Thibaut

Hi Thibaut,

Based on your requirement, you need 2 cameras, get the TZ3 and a Fuji Fxx (if you don't need fd, get F30 with manual control, or F20* for giveaway price). I am not kidding. Both TZ3 and Fxx are great and fun cameras.

• If you need manual control, you still have your A95 which is also a very nice camera (with movable LCD).

--
Best Regards,

Danny



My Albums
http://photobucket.com/albums/a44/yeeonly

Hi there,

Let's face it, ONE camera will never make it for you, regardless of how good. I talk from own experience.

I seriously suggest you buy both. Cameras are cheap these days.

In my case I didn't need a long zoom, BUT I wanted 28mm AND I wanted high ISO as well.

I ended up with Fuji F31fd (which i found I use 75& ofthe time) and as a complement I bought Canon SD800 for its 28mm lens and image stabilisation (to compensate fo lack of high ISO).

Yiou will find that the Fuji is unbeatable when it comes to picture QUALITY whenever light might be an issue. BUT the F31 fd ALSO will give you absolutely stunning outdoor shots!!

Then again, those 28mm comes in handy especially outdoors on sunny days. As you notice I haven't mentionend the TZ3 at all. NOT becuase it should be bad, ONLY because I have found that for my particular needs zoom doesn't do it for me.

Good luck with your choice. (And consider if you really need that long zoom... Or if you should buy both!

Chris.

Tub said:

Hi there !

I'm going to buy a new P&S camera, and I just can't decide which
one is going to be my Precious.

I want the output of the camera to be usable as is, I DON'T want to
do any PP of any kind. Pocketability is important. I will mostly
print in 4*6. Low light shots / moving subjects shots are
important. Big zoom and wide angle are a plus (that I can't
evaluate as I've never used a camera with such features). And I
will buy a DSLR at some point (not shortly however). My current P&S
is a Canon A95 and I won't forgive a lower quality on my new
camera, whatever are the additionnal features. In fact, I want to
have a better image quality.

The F31 is almost the perfect camera looking at those requirements.
But here comes the TZ3 with its fu* ing 28-280mm... The way I see
it now, the F31 will give me better photos than the TZ3 in a given
situation, especially in low light, but the TZ3 is more versatile.
The F31 will give me shots of moving subjects that the TZ3 will
never be able to give me. The TZ3 will give me shots at wide angle
and telephoto that the F31 will never be able to give me.

Obviously, I'm not asking you to make the choice for me. I would
like to have your thoughts on my situation (pretty critical one,
isn't it ? ) and on the TZ3. What do you think of its image
quality as Fuji users ?

Help...

Thank you very much !

Thibaut

Click to expand...

Tub said:

The F31 is almost the perfect camera looking at those requirements.
But here comes the TZ3 with its fu* ing 28-280mm...

Obviously, I'm not asking you to make the choice for me. I would
like to have your thoughts on my situation (pretty critical one,
isn't it ? ) and on the TZ3. What do you think of its image
quality as Fuji users ?

Click to expand...

[Donning flame suit]. What I am about to write is heresy to young gadget freaks, some of whom hang out in this forum, so take it as unconventional advice.

If you are looking to purchase a P&S, you are looking for a camera that will capture scenes the way you see them, a kind of recording device, rather than a camera for great creations of art that never existed in nature. Fact is, your eye has never seen anything like the perspective of a 28mm (35mm format equivalent) or a 280 mm lens. A lot of "wow, look at me!" wide angle photos get posted to these boards using wide-angle lenses. Some are quite striking and original. They are striking for the very reason that they do not look like anything actually experienced in real life.

Another response to your inquiry has suggested that wide angle is for outdoor shots. Chacun a son gout, but I have been shooting landscapes for 40 years, and find that wide angles are (for me) essentially useless outdoors (exception: waterfalls taken from the bottom, a subject that is difficult to capture well with a lens of any focal length, long or short).

The whole craft of photography is abstraction: eliminating distracting elements that do not contribute to the story of the photograph you have in your mind's eye. Generally, wide angle lenses add irrelevant elements to the scene. A very wide angle perspective can be used for abstraction, by getting very close to the subject, which renders all other elements (that are farther from the lens) in the frame tiny, but that technique works only for subjects unfamiliar to the viewer, such as a gnarled stump. Try it with portrait photography, and your subject's face is Nose City (because the nose is the closest part of trhe face to the lens and therefore is rendered in the photograph -- relative to the rest of the subject's face and head -- proportionally larger than it would be seen in the normal perspective of standing five or six feet back from the person in real life), very unflattering).

At the other end of the zoom range, it is difficult, with a P&S that lacks a direct viewfinder, to frame an extreme telephoto shot, because of the narrow angle of view of the long telephoto perspective. And -- holding the camera away from yourself to see the screen to frame the shot -- it is difficult to hold the camera sufficiently steady to get a sharp shot. The latter is where optical image stabilization -- which the FujiFilm cameras lack -- comes in handy, but OIS is an aid, not a panacea. A tripod solves the problem, but if you are carrying a tripod around, your P&S is no longer a P&S.

Heresy as it may be to others here, therewfore, I suggest that very wide zoom ranges with wide wide angles and long long telephotos, are contrary to the very reason for a P&S's existence, and that wide-wide and long-long shots -- if they are to be well done -- are the special province of dSLR cameras.

And the above does not even touch on the relative optical quality of a prime focal length or limited-zoom lens vs. a zoom lens that needs a gazillion elements to achive a wide range, bringing with it all of the internal reflections and color shifts that high element count lenses entail.

Many thanks to both of you !

For F31 vs. F30, there is less than a 20€ difference, so I reather buy the most up-to-date one. For the F20, I decided I want manual control and ISO3200 so it is not an option (one less choice ).

Buying 2 cameras... Yes, I thought about it. But I can't financially wise and I'm not even sure I want to. And my girlfriend may not agree But yes, I see it as the best solution without considering the money problem. And you're right saying that I might not be satisfied whatever camera I will buy. But for the moment, I must make the assumption that I have to choose one.

The thing is that if I buy a F31, I'm sure that it won't be performing worse than my A95 in any aspect or situation. I'm expecting it to actually perform a lot better in most situations. I won't loose anything by going from the A95 to the F31. I'm not sure about that for the TZ3, and that bogs me.

prime said:

...

Click to expand...

VERY interesting. Thank you very much. And pretty much corresponds to my current "feeling" of the situation ("feeling" as I'm everything but an experienced photographer).

If I understood well, your advice is to take the F31, even more as I intend to buy a DSLR... ?

I realize you poopoo'd the f20 Idea, but let me pitch the idea from a different angle. I have the F30 and F20... the f20 has ISO 2000 and the F30 ISO 3200. I can count the amount of times I have used either setting, on one, maybe two hands.

As far as manual controls on the F31... well on the F30 I shoot most of my shots in the M mode at auto ISO 1600, the same shooting mode available on the F20. These cameras are so good at picking the right balance of ap/ss/iso that even with the more manual control on the F30, I find I am seldom using it. Maybe once in a while the S priority for concert shots or long exp. But usually I can duplicate the shot with the F20 in M.

At $139 the F20 as the Robin to the TZ3's Batman would be The Ultimate Dynamic Duo IMHO. At the very least the Ultimate Dynamic Duo for your pockets and pocket book. Holy perfect combination Batman!

Need a long zoom to capture that sexy Catwoman across the street robbing the bank.... Pull the TZ3 from the Bat Belt.

Inside the dark hideout of the Joker and you need to photograph the drawings of his diabolical plan to submerge Gothom City in green Jello...
"Robin grab the F20 from the Batmobile glove box".

The adventures await you...

gus--
Get what makes you happy
Anything less... makes you less happy

Tub said:

Many thanks to both of you !

For F31 vs. F30, there is less than a 20€ difference, so I reather
buy the most up-to-date one. For the F20, I decided I want manual
control and ISO3200 so it is not an option (one less choice ).

Click to expand...

How much price difference is there between an F31/F30 and a TZ3?

igilligan said:

I realize you poopoo'd the f20 Idea, but let me pitch the idea from
a different angle. I have the F30 and F20... the f20 has ISO 2000
and the F30 ISO 3200. I can count the amount of times I have used
either setting, on one, maybe two hands.
As far as manual controls on the F31... well on the F30 I shoot
most of my shots in the M mode at auto ISO 1600, the same shooting
mode available on the F20. These cameras are so good at picking
the right balance of ap/ss/iso that even with the more manual
control on the F30, I find I am seldom using it. Maybe once in a
while the S priority for concert shots or long exp. But usually I
can duplicate the shot with the F20 in M.

At $139 the F20 as the Robin to the TZ3's Batman would be The
Ultimate Dynamic Duo IMHO. At the very least the Ultimate Dynamic
Duo for your pockets and pocket book. Holy perfect combination
Batman!

Need a long zoom to capture that sexy Catwoman across the street
robbing the bank.... Pull the TZ3 from the Bat Belt.
Inside the dark hideout of the Joker and you need to photograph the
drawings of his diabolical plan to submerge Gothom City in green
Jello...
"Robin grab the F20 from the Batmobile glove box".

The adventures await you...

gus--
Get what makes you happy
Anything less... makes you less happy

Click to expand...

I second that[have f20 and waiting on tz3]

Fins said:

Tub said:

Many thanks to both of you !

For F31 vs. F30, there is less than a 20€ difference, so I reather
buy the most up-to-date one. For the F20, I decided I want manual
control and ISO3200 so it is not an option (one less choice ).

Click to expand...

How much price difference is there between an F31/F30 and a TZ3?

Click to expand...

I paid $250 f30 and $280 tz3

igilligan said:

The adventures await you...

Click to expand...

LOL. And... LOL !

Ok. I'll have to explain the situation a bit more. I'm French, living in France. Here, prices are horrible (very best prices are 380€ 500$ for TZ3, 215€ 280$ for F31 and 150€ 200$ for F20). I have the chance to buy my camera in Japan for a much lower price, more in line with US prices. The problem is that it seems the F20 has not been released in Japan (checked in price comparators and on Fuji Japan site). And the F31 in Japan is at the same price than the F20 in France. So the choice is even more obvious...

But yes, should the F20 be available to me for an even lower price, F20 + TZ3 combo would be the killing one. Any one here kind enough to buy a F20 and bring it to me in Paris ?

Thank you for the info and for the laugh

There is no answer. You know the highlights of each camera. They don't substitute for each other.

I have an F10 and will be getting the TZ3 soon. The F10 is likely more pocketable, is fun to use, and excels in low light/high iso. The size and non-existant shutter snap (half-press to full press) allow me to get sharp pics at slow shutter speeds - not quite as good I.S. but close (1 stop compared to other non-I.S. cams I have).

But in the end, versatility is a little limited by the lens range (for me - here's where opinions differ). There's no substitute for zoom, or wide angle, and the Fujis lack both.
And it looks like the TZ3 has come a long way in higher iso.

Read what this professional photographer with lots of experience has to say: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=22766822

I'd say get both. If I had to pick one, it might be the TZ3 (I say might because I don't have one and can't say for sure until I do).

Tub said:

Hi there !

I'm going to buy a new P&S camera, and I just can't decide which
one is going to be my Precious.

I want the output of the camera to be usable as is, I DON'T want to
do any PP of any kind. Pocketability is important. I will mostly
print in 4*6. Low light shots / moving subjects shots are
important. Big zoom and wide angle are a plus (that I can't
evaluate as I've never used a camera with such features). And I
will buy a DSLR at some point (not shortly however). My current P&S
is a Canon A95 and I won't forgive a lower quality on my new
camera, whatever are the additionnal features. In fact, I want to
have a better image quality.

The F31 is almost the perfect camera looking at those requirements.
But here comes the TZ3 with its fu* ing 28-280mm... The way I see
it now, the F31 will give me better photos than the TZ3 in a given
situation, especially in low light, but the TZ3 is more versatile.
The F31 will give me shots of moving subjects that the TZ3 will
never be able to give me. The TZ3 will give me shots at wide angle
and telephoto that the F31 will never be able to give me.

Obviously, I'm not asking you to make the choice for me. I would
like to have your thoughts on my situation (pretty critical one,
isn't it ? ) and on the TZ3. What do you think of its image
quality as Fuji users ?

Help...

Thank you very much !

Thibaut

Click to expand...

puttin said:

Fins said:

How much price difference is there between an F31/F30 and a TZ3?

Click to expand...

I paid $250 f30 and $280 tz3

Click to expand...

As I explained in another post in this thread, prices are Japan ones because I will buy it there. I give French prices for info...
F30 : 200€ 260$ in France, 150€ 195$ in Japan
F31 : 215€ 280$ in France, 165€ 220$ in Japan
TZ3 : 380€ 500$ in France, 230€ 300$ in Japan

Another note on the F30/F31 vs. F20.

I want manual control + ISO3200 to give me maximum chances to freeze moving subjects. Force aperture to max, force ISO3200 and let the camera take the shutter speed (which will be obviously the fastest possible). I won't be able to force aperture to max and I'll be limited to ISO2000 on F20 which will lessen the chances of movement freeze a bit. And yes, I'd rather have a noisy photo that guarantees me movement freeze.

Of course, should the F20 be available to me at a much lower price than the F30/31, I would have considered it (see previous post).

Yes, I saw Ming's review. He confirms that incandescent light is a problem.

I think that everyone is right, it is impossible to choose... But I have to. Or not. Arg !

Wow Japan prices are really cheap compared to other places like France or North America

Tub said:

My current P&S
is a Canon A95 and I won't forgive a lower quality on my new
camera, whatever are the additionnal features. In fact, I want to
have a better image quality.

Click to expand...

I think the tz3 is the significantly more versatile of the two (28-280mm, OIS, high res 3" lcd, sd memory, battery charger) but your IQ criteria would recommend the f31 with approximately the same size sensor as the a95.
--
Fred

From my observations with both cameras. In M mode auto iso 1600. It is gonna force aperature to the max in any lighting conditions other than bright sun. And in bright sun you are going to get low iso/high shutterspeed anyway to freeze the action.

Am I thinking correctly about this? By Max you are saying max open correct? 2.8 at wide F5 at full zoom.
gus
--
Get what makes you happy
Anything less... makes you less happy

igilligan said:

Am I thinking correctly about this? By Max you are saying max open
correct? 2.8 at wide F5 at full zoom.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I mean. So the only gain would be ISO3200 (apart from battery and screen resolution)... You almost convinced me. If I could find the F20 for a lower price, I think that I would buy it instead of the F30/31...

Well having almost convinced you.... I just saw your post below about your available prices and let me say that at the Japan prices you are quoting I would go for the F31... That is a good price...

If I could get the F20 for the 139 us price and the TZ3 for the Japan price that is the combo I would go for.

But the F31 would be tough to pass up at $220... It is such a nice camera. confused again? 8^) I am no help at all....

It is so funny that I talk prices at all when we are talking a 60 or 70 dollar difference... I lost that much in a friendly poker game last night and spent 5 times that on diapers and juice and other things (that will be gone in a week) at costco this morning.

Oh, Life is short, get the toys you want. My tag line at the bottom says it all...
gus
--
Get what makes you happy
Anything less... makes you less happy