Why can't you convert an SLR body to digital?

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of the lense.

2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?--I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

To answer your question, probably because there are a ton of other electronics that need to be in place besides a simple CCD.

Seems to me it would be like trying to stick an engine on a horse-drawn carriage: could be done but not without making huge modifications.

My question is: Why can't they design a digital camera where you can pop out the old 3MP sensor and pop in the new 6MP? To compare to the above analogy, like dropping in a new engine -- but the drive train and all other needed parts are already in place.

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

There are digital backs avaiable.
They are very expensive.
--RalphMVirginia/USA

brent said:

To answer your question, probably because there are a ton of other
electronics that need to be in place besides a simple CCD.
Seems to me it would be like trying to stick an engine on a
horse-drawn carriage: could be done but not without making huge
modifications.
My question is: Why can't they design a digital camera where you
can pop out the old 3MP sensor and pop in the new 6MP? To compare
to the above analogy, like dropping in a new engine -- but the
drive train and all other needed parts are already in place.

Click to expand...

Brent they are in the business to sell you a NEW camera.

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

hardsuit said:

Michael Wisniewski said:

Its allready been done and failed....
does anyone rember SILICON SILM EFS-1 product?
the device is shaped like a roll of film with a film "leader"
that had the 1.3mp sensor , too bad they could not make it viable.
sold for as much as some high end digicams @ 4 - 6mp....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael Wisniewski said:

Michael Wisniewski said:

why its NOT pratical to adapt a film SLR body.........
first, from where is the CCD going to get its power?
their product was rechargable but short lived....
second , how do you change the settings all digicams have?
no room for OS, impratical to remove / reload sensor just to
program settings.
third , you do not want to expose CCD to dust , its in the air.
lastly , how do you see what the CCD is accually seeing.
review / preview images, edit, erase,
goldmine if camera companys can pull it off.....
I'm some KITBASHER out there has mated a CCD to SLR body....
tinkering w/ electronics not my forte....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

hardsuit.

Well I don't know that you or I can do it.

But it seems to me that Sigma just converted their SA9 SLR to digital and called it a SD9.

Homer

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

OK, its late and we're dreaming, so here's what I can see: the electronics, controls(menu, WB, playback, etc.) and LCD could be put into a replaceable back. Then it's just a matter of making backs that fit the major manufacturers' bodies. It might be a little bit wider than the normal back, but shouldn't be too much wider. Let's put the Foveon X3 in there while we're at it.

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

Not really as simple as the analogy makes out.

A bigger sensor will have a higher data rate to maintain the same shooting rate. Hence the buffer needs to keep up etc.

To change the sensor would just about everything from the sensor up to the storage device interface to be upgraded also.

It's more like trying to drop a V8 in a family car - it may fit but it'll rip the transmission apart.

brent said:

To answer your question, probably because there are a ton of other
electronics that need to be in place besides a simple CCD.
Seems to me it would be like trying to stick an engine on a
horse-drawn carriage: could be done but not without making huge
modifications.
My question is: Why can't they design a digital camera where you
can pop out the old 3MP sensor and pop in the new 6MP? To compare
to the above analogy, like dropping in a new engine -- but the
drive train and all other needed parts are already in place.

Click to expand...

There is a company called efilm. they make a digital film pack that sits in the camera the way film would. Right now they only make this for cannon and nikon??. I have been waiting for this for my Minolta M9

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

Thanks, Peter. I kinda figured that, it just sounded like something that should be possible.
Back to day dreaming...

Peter Stewart said:

A bigger sensor will have a higher data rate to maintain the same
shooting rate. Hence the buffer needs to keep up etc.

To change the sensor would just about everything from the sensor up
to the storage device interface to be upgraded also.

It's more like trying to drop a V8 in a family car - it may fit but
it'll rip the transmission apart.

brent said:

To answer your question, probably because there are a ton of other
electronics that need to be in place besides a simple CCD.
Seems to me it would be like trying to stick an engine on a
horse-drawn carriage: could be done but not without making huge
modifications.
My question is: Why can't they design a digital camera where you
can pop out the old 3MP sensor and pop in the new 6MP? To compare
to the above analogy, like dropping in a new engine -- but the
drive train and all other needed parts are already in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bruce Hornecker said:

There is a company called efilm. they make a digital film pack
that sits in the camera the way film would. Right now they only
make this for cannon and nikon??. I have been waiting for this for
my Minolta M9

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, if you're talking about the eFilm product from http://www.siliconfilm.com/

then you're gonna hafta wait for a very long time - it's been vapourware for years, and at 1.3Mpixels, kinda out of date.

Regarding the original question, from my engineering pov, it could be done (hey, siliconfilm have aparently done it for prototypes). Now consider the costs and drawbacks involved:

Support various models of pro and advanced amateur equipement, eg. Canon Eos 1, 3, 30, Nikon F90, F100, F5, F4 and F3

No preview screen unless further mechnical customisation (different backs).

How to store images? Memory stick may be small enough to fit in a film size canister

How to power the device for a reasonable amount of time?

If you use a 3Mpixel CCD/CMOS, assume price is 200 bucks for that, another 100 for electronics (you can't buy the 100k quantities here to get real discounts becuase you're only going to sell about 1000 tops!), 300 for custom mechanical designs (& screen). A couple of engineers on 50-70k dollars a year for 2 years.

For actual profit, you'll have to sell your gizmo for 2000 dollars a piece. Suddenly a Nikon D1 or Canon 1D looks like a cheaper and better soln.

I've stopped waiting for a drop-in sensor to be designed for my one and only SLR - Praktica MTL1000 and plan to buy an off-the-shelf digtal camera.

Still if someone wants to convert my Prak. to a 3+MP DSLR so that I can use my existing (prime) lenses for

Laurens

The lower MP chips tend to be smaller. Therefore there is a special lens to constrict the light to a match the size of the sensor. Add in a larger sensor and you'd have to swap this lens.

Peter Stewart said:

A bigger sensor will have a higher data rate to maintain the same
shooting rate. Hence the buffer needs to keep up etc.

To change the sensor would just about everything from the sensor up
to the storage device interface to be upgraded also.

It's more like trying to drop a V8 in a family car - it may fit but
it'll rip the transmission apart.

brent said:

To answer your question, probably because there are a ton of other
electronics that need to be in place besides a simple CCD.
Seems to me it would be like trying to stick an engine on a
horse-drawn carriage: could be done but not without making huge
modifications.
My question is: Why can't they design a digital camera where you
can pop out the old 3MP sensor and pop in the new 6MP? To compare
to the above analogy, like dropping in a new engine -- but the
drive train and all other needed parts are already in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What lens would that be?

Brian said:

The lower MP chips tend to be smaller. Therefore there is a
special lens to constrict the light to a match the size of the
sensor. Add in a larger sensor and you'd have to swap this lens.

Click to expand...

--Stay Focused http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics

If you really think about it, that majority of SLR digital bodies origins are from the film based cameras..

Homer said:

Homer

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

.... and the company doing it went bust, I think it is called Digital Film, exactly the same idea, they even have a prototype, but never went to the market.

Not that long ago, search this forum for some archived news.

Seems nothing is new under the sun.

michael guydon said:

Homer said:

Homer

wz said:

I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael Wisniewski said:

wz wrote:
I don't know anything about cameras but I was wondering what was
preventing conversion of current SLR bodies to digital.

From a novices POV, here's what looks like a simple idea

1. Put the imaging chip on a square wafer and place it in front of
the lense.
2. Attach a storage device in the shape of traditional 35mm or APS
film container and put it where you normally put film.

Wadda ya think?
--
I hope to outgrow my G2 sooner rather than later or at the very
least grow into it.
http://www.pbase.com/mwisniewski

Click to expand...

Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the early Kodak DCS-xxx products pretty much exactly this... digial backs installed on a Nikon 35mm SLR body?

Look here the Contax

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Contax/

6MP full size 35mm sensor (Philips) in the box of a slr. My guess is, this will become the standard for digital photografy.

Getting this sensor as a digital back for your old 35mm slr will soon be a standaard accessory....

When you own a medium format camera's there are digibacks available:
http://acme.mega-vision.com/index.html

Jurjen