Samples & Galleries forum ???

dick52717 · Feb 25, 2002

A recent post here said we ought to be using the Samples & Galleries forum to post photos, solicit comments, etc. Well, don't bother. I posted 2 photos there 6 hours ago and got no response - not even one. Also, some of the stuff I saw there was downright weird. Like another world over there.
So I'll try it here. Please critique the following 2 photos.

I don't believe in touching up a photo, beyond a little brightness or contrast adjustment and an occasional cropping, but this photo was special to me. I visited this temple several times and last November I took my first digital shots there. The original was pretty poor, but I want to make a large print, so I tried my hand using PhotoDeluxe 4.0. Some people say it's no good (because it's free?) but it worked to my satisfaction.

Please don't just say, " good" or "nice". I want to know what I should or should not have done.

Thanks, ****

DomDP · Feb 25, 2002

did you put .jpg at the end--DomDP-NJC-2100UZPbase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are.'-Epictetus-

dick52717 · Feb 25, 2002

Sorry, wrong URLs.

Juli Valley · Feb 25, 2002

I like the second one better. The first one doesn't seem in focus and is underexposed. -- http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries21oo , B-3oo3o4oJuli

dick52717 · Feb 25, 2002

Juli Valley said:
I like the second one better. The first one doesn't seem in focus
and is underexposed.
--

Sorry, Juli, I did not explain the 2nd was made from the 1st. I ended up doing too many saves. That's why it's so bad.
****

DomDP · Feb 25, 2002

focus and made it a little bigger whil still trying to capture the effect of the line up the middle. Maybe getting lower or on the ground to take the picture.--DomDP-NJC-2100UZPbase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are.'-Epictetus-

CKriger · Feb 26, 2002

Hi ****,

dick52717 said:
A recent post here said we ought to be using the Samples &
Galleries forum to post photos, solicit comments, etc. Well, don't
bother. I posted 2 photos there 6 hours ago and got no response -
not even one. Also, some of the stuff I saw there was downright
weird. Like another world over there.
So I'll try it here. Please critique the following 2 photos.

I tend to agree about the S&G forum... as long as there's some semblence of technical and/or artistic issues with the pictures you post, folks over here seem quite willing to look 'em over and offer advice or even work on 'em for you... I posted a gnarly "blue flash" shot yesterday and within hours, a couple of nice wizards had posted two much-improved versions. Great!

dick52717 said:
I don't believe in touching up a photo, beyond a little brightness
or contrast adjustment and an occasional cropping, but this photo
was special to me. I visited this temple several times and last
November I took my first digital shots there. The original was
pretty poor, but I want to make a large print, so I tried my hand
using PhotoDeluxe 4.0. Some people say it's no good (because it's
free?) but it worked to my satisfaction.

So your image looked like an interesting little morning photoshop challenge... I did a real quick-n-dirty job since I just had the small-pixel-size version available and figured there wasn't any point in getting too carried away, but here's what I got (with your original below for comparison)...

Summary of steps:

1. Transform-> Distort (raise lower right corner to straighten image)

2. Crop to new deskewed size

3. Overall Saturation +24

4. Levels (4, 1.14, 255)

5. Clone out telephone pole and wires

6. Unsharp Mask (300%, rad=0.3, thresh=2)

7. Select sky with Magic Wand/Grow

8. Create new layer, and Gradient Fill sky area with pleasing shades

9. Set sky layer Blend Mode to "Darken" and 50% opacity

10. Viola!

I know this violates your "no retouching" policy quite severely (especially filling in a whole new sky), but it does give the image some much needed "punch"... I think similar steps applied with more care and perhaps a little lighter-hand to your full-pixel-size original could produce quite a nice print.

The main problems with your original (IMO) were:

a. the weird "skew" that made the path look crooked even though the gate was actually pretty level

b. the lack of crisp focus in the distance (search for "hyperfocus" for good discussions on this topic)

c. the undersaturated and white-clipped sky (really couldn't be avoided without losing the shadow detail though)

I hope you find these comments interesting, and certainly don't take them as absolutes... I'm really just a silly engineer, after all!

--Cheers, Carey( http://www.pbase.com/ckriger )

DomDP · Feb 26, 2002

CKriger said:
CKriger said:

A recent post here said we ought to be using the Samples &
Galleries forum to post photos, solicit comments, etc. Well, don't
bother. I posted 2 photos there 6 hours ago and got no response -
not even one. Also, some of the stuff I saw there was downright
weird. Like another world over there.
So I'll try it here. Please critique the following 2 photos.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree about the S&G forum... as long as there's some
semblence of technical and/or artistic issues with the pictures you
post, folks over here seem quite willing to look 'em over and offer
advice or even work on 'em for you... I posted a gnarly "blue
flash" shot yesterday and within hours, a couple of nice wizards
had posted two much-improved versions. Great!

CKriger said:

I don't believe in touching up a photo, beyond a little brightness
or contrast adjustment and an occasional cropping, but this photo
was special to me. I visited this temple several times and last
November I took my first digital shots there. The original was
pretty poor, but I want to make a large print, so I tried my hand
using PhotoDeluxe 4.0. Some people say it's no good (because it's
free?) but it worked to my satisfaction.

Click to expand...

So your image looked like an interesting little morning photoshop
challenge... I did a real quick-n-dirty job since I just had the
small-pixel-size version available and figured there wasn't any
point in getting too carried away, but here's what I got (with your
original below for comparison)...

Summary of steps:

1. Transform-> Distort (raise lower right corner to straighten image)

2. Crop to new deskewed size

3. Overall Saturation +24

4. Levels (4, 1.14, 255)

5. Clone out telephone pole and wires

6. Unsharp Mask (300%, rad=0.3, thresh=2)

7. Select sky with Magic Wand/Grow

8. Create new layer, and Gradient Fill sky area with pleasing shades

9. Set sky layer Blend Mode to "Darken" and 50% opacity

10. Viola!

I know this violates your "no retouching" policy quite severely
(especially filling in a whole new sky), but it does give the image
some much needed "punch"... I think similar steps applied with more
care and perhaps a little lighter-hand to your full-pixel-size
original could produce quite a nice print.

The main problems with your original (IMO) were:

a. the weird "skew" that made the path look crooked even though the
gate was actually pretty level

b. the lack of crisp focus in the distance (search for "hyperfocus"
for good discussions on this topic)

c. the undersaturated and white-clipped sky (really couldn't be
avoided without losing the shadow detail though)

I hope you find these comments interesting, and certainly don't
take them as absolutes... I'm really just a silly engineer, after
all!

--
Cheers,
Carey

( http://www.pbase.com/ckriger )

--DomDP-NJC-2100UZPbase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'A little nonsense now and then, is cherished by the wisest men.' - Roald Dahl -

Maxven · Feb 26, 2002

Hi Carey.

I agree with Dom that you did a terrific job on the photo. I know you only had a downsized version to work with, I was just wondering how a little less sharpening would do. Personally, I'd probably prefer it a tad softer. Still, a major improvement.

Maxven

DomDP said:
CKriger said:

DomDP said:

A recent post here said we ought to be using the Samples &
Galleries forum to post photos, solicit comments, etc. Well, don't
bother. I posted 2 photos there 6 hours ago and got no response -
not even one. Also, some of the stuff I saw there was downright
weird. Like another world over there.
So I'll try it here. Please critique the following 2 photos.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree about the S&G forum... as long as there's some
semblence of technical and/or artistic issues with the pictures you
post, folks over here seem quite willing to look 'em over and offer
advice or even work on 'em for you... I posted a gnarly "blue
flash" shot yesterday and within hours, a couple of nice wizards
had posted two much-improved versions. Great!

DomDP said:

I don't believe in touching up a photo, beyond a little brightness
or contrast adjustment and an occasional cropping, but this photo
was special to me. I visited this temple several times and last
November I took my first digital shots there. The original was
pretty poor, but I want to make a large print, so I tried my hand
using PhotoDeluxe 4.0. Some people say it's no good (because it's
free?) but it worked to my satisfaction.

Click to expand...

So your image looked like an interesting little morning photoshop
challenge... I did a real quick-n-dirty job since I just had the
small-pixel-size version available and figured there wasn't any
point in getting too carried away, but here's what I got (with your
original below for comparison)...

Summary of steps:

1. Transform-> Distort (raise lower right corner to straighten image)

2. Crop to new deskewed size

3. Overall Saturation +24

4. Levels (4, 1.14, 255)

5. Clone out telephone pole and wires

6. Unsharp Mask (300%, rad=0.3, thresh=2)

7. Select sky with Magic Wand/Grow

8. Create new layer, and Gradient Fill sky area with pleasing shades

9. Set sky layer Blend Mode to "Darken" and 50% opacity

10. Viola!

I know this violates your "no retouching" policy quite severely
(especially filling in a whole new sky), but it does give the image
some much needed "punch"... I think similar steps applied with more
care and perhaps a little lighter-hand to your full-pixel-size
original could produce quite a nice print.

The main problems with your original (IMO) were:

a. the weird "skew" that made the path look crooked even though the
gate was actually pretty level

b. the lack of crisp focus in the distance (search for "hyperfocus"
for good discussions on this topic)

c. the undersaturated and white-clipped sky (really couldn't be
avoided without losing the shadow detail though)

I hope you find these comments interesting, and certainly don't
take them as absolutes... I'm really just a silly engineer, after
all!

--
Cheers,
Carey

( http://www.pbase.com/ckriger )

Click to expand...

--
DomDP-NJ
C-2100UZ
Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/domdp

'A little nonsense now and then, is cherished by the wisest men.' -
Roald Dahl -

CKriger · Feb 26, 2002

Maxven said:
I agree with Dom that you did a terrific job on the photo. I know
you only had a downsized version to work with, I was just wondering
how a little less sharpening would do. Personally, I'd probably
prefer it a tad softer. Still, a major improvement.

Hey thanks guys... I agree the sharpening came out a bit much, but since I can't do unsharp as an adjustment layer (at least with my Photoshop 4.0), once I applied it, it was there for keeps. Of course, with the full size image, the parms for that would need to be re-judged anyway, and it should be easier to strike a good balance with more data to work with.

That unsharp filter is pretty good at salvaging sharpness where there really is none, if you can live with a few artifacts... far better to get the focus sharp to begin with though, of course!

I really like how it makes the individual rocks stand out in the path in this image... Maybe the thing to do would be to select the path and sharpen it differently from the rest. Should be a relatively easy shape to select too.

--Cheers, Carey( http://www.pbase.com/ckriger )

dick52717 · Feb 26, 2002

CKriger said:
Hi ****,

CKriger said:
I hope you find these comments interesting, and certainly don't
take them as absolutes... I'm really just a silly engineer, after
all!

( http://www.pbase.com/ckriger )

Great job Cary. Thanks. Not to makes excuses (but I am), Daitokuji was rather crowded that day and I waited quite some time for the wandering herds to be gone. Of course, just as I started to press the shutter release I saw people passing me out of the corner of my eye, so I just had to trip it fast. (Seldom in Japan will people pause while you are taking a photo). Then I waited as long as I could but it was always full of people, so I finally gave up.
****

Lucy · Feb 26, 2002

Hi...my first thought on the first photo was "too bad about those darn wires"....but you did a great job removing them! The second photo was so much better.

And then, the 'lesson' from Carey was much appreciated! I am just beginning to learn what 'can' be done with photos, so I printed out your step by step lesson.....many thanks!
Glad you asked the questions ****.....I learned something.
Lucy
c3020z
--Lucy

dick52717 · Feb 26, 2002

Lucy

Being a cheap Yankee, the best part is the program I used came free with my 2100. PhotoDeluxe 4.0. Unfortunately, some people think free programs are no good, but not in this case.
****

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