Canon 5D Flash Sync Slower than advertised?

I was photographing ladies' handbags on a white seamless table top set up. I had the camera in the horizontal orientation and had the shutter/flash sync on my 5D set to 1/200.

Even though my light meter indicated that I had an evenly lit sweep, I kept getting a middle grey foreground for the bottom 1/5 or 1/6 of the frame. I had my assistants hit the spot with a grid light and still it was the same value of gray.

It was absolutely infuriating. We couldn't figure out why the foreground was underlit, and why no amount of light we hit it with could lighten it up.

I finally dropped the shutter to 1/125 of a second and the mysterious grey patch disappeared. I tried 1/160 of a second and there is just a hint of grey, but definitely noticeable.

Is it just my 5D? Has anyone noticed the curtain cutting into the exposures at 1/160 and 1/200 of a second? I'm a little upset because this is fairly significant to me- I'm not so sure I would have jumped on the 5D if I had known the effective shutter speed was only 1/125 of a second instead of what they advertised- 1/200.

I'd appreciate if any of you could verify my test for me- I only have one 5D body. If you could shoot a middle grey object at 1/125, 1/160 and 1/200 with flash and let me know if you see flash vignetting before the rated sync speed I would appreciate it.

Paul

I'm pretty certain this is a fault or wrongly set-up. Mine certainly synchs fine up to 1/200th of a sec using the 580EX set to normal X-sync mode.

If you have High Speed Flash mode enabled though, the camera indicates the wrong flash mode at 1/200th - showing normal mode at 1/200th when in fact it operates in HS mode. The camera viewfinder display doesn't indicate a switch to HS mode until the shutter speed is raised to 1/250th.

The 5d syncronizes at 1/200 with the speedlights and at 1/125 with external studio strobes which blows in my opinion...Therefore you can not do studio action shots with strobes e.t.c.It is my basic complaint with this camera.
--
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http://www.pahountis.gr

. . . as Canon's 1/200 spec does not hold up in my experience either.

JAM said:

. . . as Canon's 1/200 spec does not hold up in my experience either.

Click to expand...

I meant to add - 1/160 with studio strobes and a PocketWizard trigger device.

Well if that's your complaint, don't worry

You can freeze action with even 1 second exposures.
The flashduration is often 1/800 - 1/3000 (depending on brand and output).

I do a lot of action moving in the studio and use 1/125 which is indeed the fastest a 5D will sync with studio like lighting and never got any problems.
Which is logical because the flashduration freezes the action.

Working outside however IS a problem, there I need arround 1/500 and because only some MF will do this you have to be smart and shoot with ND or 50ISO which the 5D luckely has

Great post! If you look in your 5D manual on page 102 it says at the top, "with large studio flash, the sync speed is 1/125 or slower."

Frankly - this is concerns me as well as I just got this camera recently. This is crazy. I do a lot of studio stuff and how can I feel comfortable about shooting a wide range of things if I don't know when I'm going to get burned by the sync. This plus the tendency to have too much red has me on the brink of selling this a.s.a.p. I know there are tons of ways to adjust colors but i haven't been able to get enough red ou.- In camera or in post. I only use a grey card, I only use a light meter, I only do custom white balance, and I only shoot RAW, PLUS I compare my GretagMacbeth Color Chart to check the images. My fault for not researching all this before I bot the camera. Well, I'll never do that again...

From the time I bought 10D, i use 1/200 in studio, and no one single corrupted frame.
I use British Bowens lighting equipment and Sync with IR adapter!

Now, I have 5D, but still not play with it in studio too much.
So I just wondering, how 10D was able to shoot at 1/200 and 5D can't?

I like to use softboxes on a sunny day for those complicated lighting effects, and only 1/160 really can be a problem!

------------------------
Regards.

five5pho said:

The 5d syncronizes at 1/200 with the speedlights and at 1/125 with
external studio strobes which blows in my opinion...

Click to expand...

I guess it depends on the trigger time of the flash system itself, rather than the camera as such, since it only seems to be a limitation with studio flashes.

1/200th of a second synch isn't just restricted to Canon speedlights. I have fired lots of non-speedlight flashes via both the hot shoe and the PC socket and either first or second curtain synch and always managed synch at 1/200th without any shutter blind shadow.

Its RKM said:

1/200th of a second synch isn't just restricted to Canon
speedlights. I have fired lots of non-speedlight flashes via both
the hot shoe and the PC socket and either first or second curtain
synch and always managed synch at 1/200th without any shutter blind
shadow.

Click to expand...

Please define non-speedlight flashes. non-canon flashes or strobes ??

In my knowledge and exp ... 5D gets 1/200s with speedlite and hot shoe flashes, but not with STROBES - wire or wireless.

But depending on the wireless trigger, I could get up to 1/160 (cheap trigger => 1/125s or less).

I could get up to 1/1000s with the same stobes and triggers setup with my D1x which specs are 1/500s X-flash ... but only get 1/160s X-flash max with the 5D.

As someone write already write - Read carefully you user's manual.

Bach.

--the eos 1d 1/500 sync speed is missed...and IF it comes back on the 1ds mk 111 I will be on the waiting list..
http://pahountis.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pahountis.gr

Bach said:

Bach184117 said:

1/200th of a second synch isn't just restricted to Canon
speedlights. I have fired lots of non-speedlight flashes via both
the hot shoe and the PC socket and either first or second curtain
synch and always managed synch at 1/200th without any shutter blind
shadow.

Click to expand...

Please define non-speedlight flashes. non-canon flashes or strobes ??

Click to expand...

I have successfully triggered at 1/200th using the PC sync cord with Metz (45CT-1, 45CT-4, 60CT-1) Vivitar (273, 283) Braun (440) and National (PE-5650) flash units and several others. All old models, so I needed to use the PC connector to avoid damaging the hot shoe circuit, which apparently is only 6V tolerant. The only flash that I use shoe triggered is the 580EX.

Even my 1976 vintage, but still one of the most powerful portable flash units ever made, National PE-5650 synchs perfectly at 1/200th whether using 1st or 2nd curtain synch. I use that occasionally with the 5D because of its sheer brute portable power, at least 3 stops more than the 580EX. However, I know it has a 36V trigger so I have removed the hot shoe sync contact completely - just in case! In fact, with the old National unit I only lose the bottom 20-30 pixels on the 5D when shooting at 1/250th - hardly worth worrying about, but it indicates a good safety margin at 1/200th.

I can read the manual just as well as you and it certainly doesn't say it is a sync limitation of the PC wired trigger. As I said before, the only reason that larger units can't sync at this rate MUST be the trigger delay time of larger studio units. The PC socket on the camera certainly can sync with adequately fast flash units.

I bought a set of three studio flash units and ran into a similar problem. At first, I thought it was the flash units that were having problems but after trying every focal length to have the same grayout at the bottom of the frame, I concluded it was my camera. I'm sure the flash sync is at 1/200. I will try the 1/125s when I get a chance later this week. Now where did I put the camera manual...

Warmest regards,
-Ben

"With large studio flash, the sync speed is 1/125 sec. or slower. Be sure to test the flash to see if it synchronizes properly with the camera."

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

Its RKM said:

I can read the manual just as well as you and it certainly doesn't
say it is a sync limitation of the PC wired trigger. As I said
before, the only reason that larger units can't sync at this rate
MUST be the trigger delay time of larger studio units. The PC
socket on the camera certainly can sync with adequately fast flash
units.

Click to expand...

If you look in your 5D manual on page 102 it says at the top, "with large studio flash, the sync speed is 1/125 sec. or slower. Be sure to test the flash to see if ...."

I think alot of people don't know how IT works.

You can NEVER sync higher than 1/125 on MODERN studio strobes.
Only at 1/125 the censor is completly open with the shuttercurtains.

It can be done however if your flash has a flashduration below 1/200 than the time the curtain travels it will be fully exposed.

Normally the flash has a duration of 1/1000 and you will never get a good result with studio strobes on anything higher than 1/125.

The 10D could do it because the sensor is smaller.

Trigger speed has nothing to do with it sorry, cables same story.
It's all in the shuttercurtains.

On highspeed sync mode with the 580EX it can be done because in highspeed sync mode there are SEVERAL flashes send on to light the different parts of the censor as the shuttercurtains travel.

Greetings,
Frank
http://www.frankdoorhof.com

You will NEVER get burned by the sync speed because the flashduration is your shuttertime in the studio.

I do ALOT of motion (jumps etc.) in the studio and with for example the Elinchrom RX series the motion is frozen.

With cheaper brands there is some more motion because the flashduration is longer.

The only thing were it can be a problem is when using flash OUTSIDE and you want to turn day into darker backgrounds, but even than it can be easily done with ISO50 and for example F16.

Greetings,
Frank
http://www.frankdoorhof.com

Bach said:

Bach184117 said:

I can read the manual just as well as you and it certainly doesn't
say it is a sync limitation of the PC wired trigger. As I said
before, the only reason that larger units can't sync at this rate
MUST be the trigger delay time of larger studio units. The PC
socket on the camera certainly can sync with adequately fast flash
units.

Click to expand...

If you look in your 5D manual on page 102 it says at the top, "with
large studio flash, the sync speed is 1/125 sec. or slower. Be sure
to test the flash to see if ...."

Click to expand...

As I said, I can read the manual as well as you. Now read the part of the manual you quoted - "Be sure to test the flash to see if it synchronises properly with the camera."

If the trigger speed if fast enough then the flash certainly can synchronise at 1/200th of a second.

(nt)=no text

use a shoe mount flash like 430ex to trigger your studio flash and you can get 1/200s. it took me a while to figure out as well.
Max