Camera for a Trip to Italy

I'm going to Italy for the first time in 2 wks. My plan has been to take my 5D and primarily use my 35f2 and 50f1.4 lenses. My thought was that I needed fast lenses and good high ISO results for the inside of all those old buildings.

But this trip isn't about photography (my wife won't tolerate it) and I'm not sure I want to carry all that weight on what is really a sight seeing trip.

So, I'm looking for a digicam alternative. I want a fast lens and at least fairly good high ISO performance. With the 5d my plan was to always use wide angle and crop when necessary, so high megapixel count was important. With a digicam with a modest zoom, I could imagine the megapixels don't matter as much. I doubt I'll get anything worthy of big-time enlargement (except by accident).

I've considered the G7, but the lens is only F2.8, and low light performance apparently isn't that wonderful. The Nikon p5000 sounds similar.

Actually, I know the perfect camera for this purpose: the Leica M8. I used rangefinders when I was young and love them. Too bad I can't afford it.

So, any suggestions out there? Am I being too hard on the G7 (thing old building interiors, no flash allowed and it wouldn't work in that setting anyway)?
--
Steve Jacobs

I took my 5D went I went to Italy last summer. A number of my shots where at ISO 3200 or 1600 in the evenings and inside. There is no way I could have gotten these shots with my G7 since flash would have either ruined the composition or was prohibited.

--
jerryk.smugmug.com

Steve,
I have a G7 and I'm going to be 100% honest with you.

At ISO 800 in low light, the G7 does a pretty good job. You will have noise but it is not splotchy red & dark globs like you get with some cameras. The noise is grain like and easily cleans up in a program like NoiseWare.

ISO 1600 is not very good because the noise is too heavy and does not clean up very well.

So if your low light shots can be taken with ISO 800 then the G7 will do a good job for you.

Even though I own the G7 I'm not a G7 "fan boy" and don't recommend the camera to anyone who is interested in a point & shoot only camera. The G7 is a good camera but you have to work at getting pictures that would be considered better than other cameras.

If a person is interested in being able to take quick snapshots that provide good results then there are much cheaper alternatives.

Many people who say they own and know how to use a DSLR swear by the G7 but I'm not one of those people and I've been blasted, on this forum, more than once for my opinion.

The G7 has a terrible shutter lag when using an external flash, the view finder is not accurate, and the camera does not "meter" like a DSLR.

For example; an external flash picture taken at f/5.6 with a shutter speed of 1/125 on a DSLR will be much better exposed than it will be with the G7.

Naturally, the G7 will take excellent pictures but you're going to have to learn a lot about how the camera reacts to different lighting situations before you'll be able to depend on it. It does not react like a DSLR.

After saying all of this I will also say that if a person wants a full featured compact camera the G7 is an excellent buy and gives a lot of "bang for the buck".
For some of us it's a great camera for others it would be a big disappointment.

Hi Steve,

We went to Italy last year for two weeks. At the time the only two cameras I had was a Powershot SD550 and an Olympus E330 with several lenses. I took the Oly with only one lens - a 14-54, which equates to 28-108 in 35mm terms because the 4/3 system has a 2x crop factor. Most of my shots were at the wider end of the lens - one reason I did not even consider the SD550. A lot of the nighttime and interior shots were at ISO1600, which I was very happy/surprised with the results, so yes you will need something that can get dependable results in low light.

I recently replaced the 550 with the G7 and love it. Do I consider it a P&S alternative to a DSLR - yes and no. It does give you most of the controls that a DSLR has but as was pointed out before, the responsiveness is not the same. Then again, most of the stuff you will be shooting in Italy will not be moving - buildings generally don't, and if they do I for one would not stay around long enough to get a shot of them. I have shot quite a lot with the higher ISO and the 3200 Scene mode - our dog does not appreciate flash in his face and I really don't like flash shots anyway. Up to 400 is very good. 800 is still very useable - especially if you have a decent noise program. 3200 is much better than I expected, but the resolution is only 2Mb, so that will limit its usefullness. ISO 1600 is pretty bad. It can be cleaned up to a "decent" image. It's good in a pinch, but not something to depend.

But remember - the camera has image stabilization. So again considering that most of your shots will not be of moving objects, I would think that ISO 400/800 combined with the IS should be sufficient.

My primary concern with taking the G7 on trips was that the wide end was not very wide - around 35mm. I purchased the Raynox wide angle adapter, which improves that to around 24 mm and have been testing it out and so far pretty happy with the results.

We are taking two vacations this year (one to Chicago and Michigan and another to Florida/Paradise Island). As of now I am planning on only taking the G7, since that was my purpose in getting the camera - traveling lighter.
(Sorry for being so long winded.)
Steve

The G7 is not a bad choice for Italy under the conditions you describe because it has IS, which gives you 2 stops more in effect,and another 1/2 stop from the conservative ISO rating. plus, ISO 400 is fully useable, and even 800 isn't too bad. And it has a hot shoe for something like a 220EX.

Picture quality is really pretty darn good. My biggest gripe is the mis-aligned optical viewfinder, which is a common problem and takes some time to get used to. Offsetting that is the very good LCD which even works outdoors.

Other possibilities would be a used G6 or Pro 1, or a new S3IS. The G6 has a very good 35-140 mm f/2-f/3 lens and a useable ISO 400 (actually ISO 640), hot shoe, a good sized grip and a flip/tilt LCD. The Pro 1 has the L series lens, 28-200 f/2.4-3.5, hot shoe, and it's a little noisy at ISO 400. Both the G6 and Pro 1 do very well with external flash.

The S3IS is mentioned because it has IS and at moderate focal lengths the lens is fast (about f/3 at 200 mm). It's a stop and a half faster than the G7 at longer focal lengths. No hot shoe, but the built in pops up and is fairly powerful for a P&S. ISO 400 is fully useable and even ISO 800 isn't that bad.

There is one more, the Panasonic LC1. 28-90 mm f/2-f/2.4 leica designed lens. Very sharp pictures and excellent color. Only 5 MP, so not a lot of latitude for cropping.

Check out Luminous Landscape for comparisons of the G7 and Leica M8.

Italy has a wide variety of shooting conditions. Some churches in Rome like St Peter's do allow flash because their artwork is mosaics, others do not. You will miss ISO 1600 in some cases, but maybe not as much as you think.

In 2005, I lugged a 20D around Rome for two days. That got old very quickly. My lens was an f/3.5 and I used ISO 1600 a few times. If the place is too dark for the G7, buy postcards.

I own the S70, G6, G7, Pro 1 and S3IS. If it were me, I'd probably pick the G6 or Pro 1 for Italy and the S70 always goes along on trips.
--
Jerry

I can tell that you want a higher-line model camera with more options than what I have, but I have just returned from a trip to Italy with my SD900, and I got some great shots. Some of them were shots that I was able to get off quickly because I could easily carry the SD900 in my hand most of the time. Here's my album of Italy pics:

http://web.mac.com/duanegossett/iWeb/Mr.%20Gossett%27s%20Web%20Site/Italy%20Photos%202007.html

You could also consider S3. It's with a 1/2.5", the lens are f/2.7-f/3.5, 36-432 mm, and OIS. The noise is not as high as in G7 but has only 6M. The ISO200 is very good and ISO400 is perfectly usable. With OIS ISO200 is like ISO1600 (the same with G7) but the lens are a little bit slow (f/2.7).

You cannot obtain the same quality as the dSLR but it's close. It has no hot shoe for external flash. The movie mode is very good but limited to 1G files.
--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/

God job with the photos from Italy.

Just a bit of info , in case you might not already be aware......
I've visited Italy twice in the past few years.....In Rome, you will
be allowed to take (non-flash) photos in approx. 90 percent of
the churches and museums....In Venice and Florence, just the
opposite,...maybe 10-15 percent of churches and museums allow
photos of any kind.
I won't advise regarding camera because we all have different
requirements, but I will say that on my next trip to Europe, all I
will be taking is my Canon SD700IS......It is 38-140mm, and no
appature or shutter priority, but the image quality and the Image
Stabilization will allow me to take 95 percent of the shots I want
.....and it is so small and lightweight , I can keep it in my pocket
or just hide it in my hand......

Have a great trip..... after 3 days in Italy, I was thinking,.....
You know,....I could live here.......

photo....St. Peter's.....old Nikon pocket cam ...N775

This thread was interesting. I bought the G7 for the same trip (V-F-R) and I've been there before. Still don't "trust" G7 even though I love it, so bringing my E1 with 12-60 (24-120) 2.8-3.5 zoom anyway. My wife will use the G7, but looking at the Ricoh GX100 (see new reviews) or Sigma DP1 (full size foveon sensor, fixed 28 mm, but f4.0 and no IS!).

drMichael said:

so bringing my E1 with 12-60 (24-120) 2.8-3.5
zoom anyway.

Click to expand...

Hi Doc,

What will you do if the 12-60 is not available before you leave? I assume you are refering to the new Oly lens that has been announced. Also, isn't it 2.8-4.5?

(BTW - that is a lens that I am salivating over. The lens I took to Italy was the 14-54 but would have liked something a little wider and longer. I just hope that the 12-60 is up to the quality of the 14-54.)

Steve

Actually, I doubt it will be here, so I bought, and love, the 11-22! I don't mind the limited zoom... the glass is spectacular! I really wanted the pro 14-35 2.0, but apparently that will be bigger a heavier than my 7-14! (and $2500?) So 11-22 for now, then 12-60 asap for all future travel. I sold my 14- 54 just to get the 11-22. Another Oly poster said he had all these and preferred the 11-22.

BTW...I also worry about quality as you stretch the zoom. Maybe I will buy the 14-35 and live with it. I shot all day with my 7-14 and it balanced and felt VERY comfortable despite the weight and size. The 14-35 2.0 will be true pro quality. Can you imagine that with the P-1?!!! My guess is that they will do the 12-60 right.

You want a low light pocket sized digicam, you want the Fuji F31. ISO 1600 almost as good as a 400D. Maybe as good as 300D, or thereabouts. I can't believe no one mentioned it yet. Unless I missed it, then I apologize. Course a DSLR like the 350D-5D series would be better if you can swing it.

Unless you really need low light performance, in which case you should get the Fuji F30.

I suspect you'll be happiest with the S3, even though its LCD is small, if you can handle the electronic viewfinder. Still the G7 is hard to pass up for a travel camera.

Dave

I also was going to say the Fuji F30 as well as the Canon S3. F30 is $270 and the S3 is $300 (both at Abes of Maine - I had good luck with them).

In the last six years I made 4 trips to Italy and never carried a SLR, in 2001 a Canon Sureshot 90 W (28mm Lens, film), in 2002 a Canon G2, in 2004 a Canon S60 (28mm) and S400 and in 2006 a Kodak P880 (24mm) and a Panasonic FX01 (28mm), by far the best combination.

Most churches are adequately lit and interior exposures ran around 1/15th to 1/4 sec. I was surprised I was able to hand hold these shots but there is always something to lean against and the wide angle is a plus and a must.

My daughter is going to Italy with a school group in June. Because each student will be taking a camera, we are going to take the F30/31 for the interior photo ops. The kids will share their best photos for the trip so everyone will get a record of their trip. We want to make sure that someone can handle the low light situations.

Another reason that we are going with the F30/31 is because it fills a gap that our S2 can't.

Canoneyesed said:

You want a low light pocket sized digicam, you want the Fuji F31.
ISO 1600 almost as good as a 400D. Maybe as good as 300D, or
thereabouts. I can't believe no one mentioned it yet. Unless I
missed it, then I apologize.

Click to expand...

--
Mike Kelly
Houston, Texas
Canon Powershot S2 IS, Olympus C2100UZ

Thanks, all, for your advice. I went ahead and bought a G7. I know I'll miss my 5D, but not the weight.

I wanted to buy it a bit in advance so I could get to know it before the trip. So far, so good.
--
Steve Jacobs

Have a good time with G7. It will not give you the quality of 5D all the time but most of the time you'll have troble differentiate between them.
--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/