Tripod Help

ClaudioG said:

Is gitzo worth the extra $350?

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In your case, this may be an interesting discussion with a surprising answer. Lil has a 300/4 and will be shootinng with a TC17 at 500mm. Having done a lot of 500mm shooting, both with the 300/4 and 300/2.8, I came to the conclusion that you can't really overkill a tripod while working at 500mm, although some might disagree and even call me obsessive . In the $350ish range, i thought the 3371 made a lot of sense for her and since she was looking at larger, heavier aluminum legs, the Feisol improved her situation.

You have a tougher decision. The 3371 is about 4.5LB and 26 3/8" folded length. it has about a 4" flat plate at the top. The 4 section 3471 is 22" folded, which is a nice compact package. My concern is that with a 70-200, we've gone through some mission creep here, and those legs are a little more than you need. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are going to actually carry it. You have to make that call. Since the legs are plenty beefy, I would think the 4 section would do just fine if you want to keep the length down., almost exactly the same length as the 3540S I talked about previously.

The $350 extra, aside from whatever extra quality and rigidity the Gitzo might give you, gives you more options. I can't tell you how the 3540S would perform against the 3471 or 3371, but you can see from the various specs that the Gitzo would be a bit lighter (1/2 LB) and a little less bulky.

Pay me now or carry me later ?

Other options, of course, are Benro and Induro, as was mentioned elsewhere here. I think they are basically the same products but rebranded. The Induros seem to be a bit expensive; the larer legs are as much as the Gitzos they knock off, which I find to be odd.

B&H still has the Benro C-228 in stock, which as far as I can determine is a virtual twin to my G1228- no anti-rotation leg locks but a great price. I'm pretty comfortable with my G1228 and my 70-200. I sometimes wish I had a 3 section variant but then again it's a great light package. The 3 series equivilent Benros I've seen run about $450 and all have rapid columns, which I personally prefer to stay away from although my Gitzo rapid column actually performs well with my 70-200 according to some tests I;ve done comparing it to the Markins TB20 replacement plate (actually outperformed the TB20 in some cases). In an unknown line, I would be more leery of a rapid column. Just me thiinking out loud here.

I'm rambling here but I don't really know your needs in terms of portability, or the chance that you have a larger lens in the future- something along the lines of a 300/4 you would use with TCs, or even a 300 2.8.

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Regards,
Neil

ClaudioG said:

Guys do you mind explaining the left hand thing on the ballhead?

Thanks
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ClaudioG

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Claudio,

I ordered the left hand version without discussing it with Neil as far as I can remember, but I suffer from chronic headaches so I forget things at times. I've had it bad for the last three days so I may be off as I can't find the message. I simply did that on someone else's very logical recommendation.

It has to do with freeing up your right hand for the camera trigger so you don't have to worry if your want to fast lock the pan down while having the right hand / finger on the trigger of the camera.

I'm right handed, but like being able to adjust my tension of the panning ability at will with my left hand. This is personal preference. I'm sure Neil can explain it better or simply advice better.

Lil

No. The Markins has a 90 or 100 LB payload rating but that does not mean you are going to put 90+LB on it. If you put a 90 LB lens on an M10 it would not perform well. You could not pan it properly. You could lock it down and it would hold position (the criteria for the rating), but that's all you could do.

I've mentioned previously with ballheads that the less you load them, relative to their realistic load capabilties, the better they perform. Same with legs. The current Gitzo 2 series is rated at 26LB. I assure you that you don't want to actually put a 26LB package on it. It would vibrate like crazy.

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Regards,
Neil

Neal indeed this is a purchase with an eye on the future.

I really wont mind carriing an extra 1/2 lb and save $350.

I really like a sturdy tripod. The 4 segment model is an interesting suggestion.

If it fits in the tripod attachment of my kata backpack it is a deal.

Thanks
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ClaudioG

Let me ellaborate further:

• Cheap ballheads are on/off only

• Mid-priced ballheads generally are rated for more weight and have panning options

• Most of the "pro quality" ballheads have a higher weight rating, panning, arca-swiss plate compatibility, and tension control.

In my opinion, the tension control is the hardest part to achieve properly. Tension control provides you with two advantages:

1. Reduces likelihood that a head potentially flops over and damages camera equipment.

2. Many have a "sweet spot" which will allow you to reposition the camera without locking or unlocking it. You simply move the camera and the tension is sufficient to hold it in place. This allows for faster repositioning of the camera.

From what I have read (I only own one ballhead), the "sweet spot" is bigger with the larger ballheads minimizing adjustment hassles when weight is added or reduced as lenses are changed.

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Doug

Markins has two flavors of each model, R(ight) and L(eft). Lil is confused on this point. It has nothing to do with being right handed or left handed because in this cold cruel world, all cameras are designed for righties and lefties just have to deal with it

It will help to look at images of both models:

http://www.markinsamerica.com

Right or Left refers to the orientation of the drop slot when the main control knob is facing you, which is the generally preferred position. If you do NOT use an L bracket, you want to drop the camera to the left for portrait orientation, which puts the shutter button on the top. So, if you do NOT use an L bracket, you want an L model and that is why the L model was developed a couple years ago.

Ideally, I think that the pan lock knob should be to the left of the main knob so I can operate both knobs with my left hand while my right hand is working the camera. With the L model, the pan knob is to the RIGHT of the main knob. It could no tbe located on the left because the drop slot is to the left, and the camera would interfere with the pan lock knob when it is dropped into portrait mode. I'm just saying that there is no "design defect" in the L model; there is no other option.

On the R model, the main knob is in front, the pan lock to the left, and the drop is on the right side. Since I don't really care where the drop is located because I have an L bracket and don;t ever do portrait flops, , I'm happy because I have the pan lock on the left side. As a bonus for me, I prefer the drop to the right when I use my Sidekick.

If I have some reason to place the drop in some certain position for an extreme angle, then I just deal with having the controls in a less than optimum location. This would be true of any ballhead.

A lot of users prefer the L model, even those using L brackets. I don't recall the specific reasoning; I just know I'm an iconoclast and I like my R model. With the L model, if you orient the drop to the right side, the main knob would be facing away from you and the pan lock to the back left. Some people may find that more comfortable and it may be why some L bracket users prefer the L model.

It's best to look at the pictures and try to visualize how you would work with each orientation.

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Regards,
Neil

If you like sturdy, I think you will like the CT3371 or 3471. About the only thing more massive in CF would be a Gitzo 5 series, which is a real monster (and expensive) and I wouldn't even suggest that for your gear

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Regards,
Neil

Neil, is the markins m-20 going to look weird on the large feisol platform ( 4in)?
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ClaudioG

You are right on the money. I never lock down my Markins when I shoot, even with a 500P working at 700 or 1000mm. That is what I am paying for with a Pro ballhead. Beyond that though, larger balls (within a series) pan more smoothly, allowing for easier fine adjustments, than smaller ballheads. It's all about how smoothly the head pans while under enough tension to maintain the sweetspot.

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Regards,
Neil

Again price/performance is important
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ClaudioG

Yes it will. I don't think anyone makes a balljhead that fills out that 4" platform

Cosmetically, these heads look better on a 3 series because it is a 3" plate and the M20 fills it out nicely. I assume you saw my image above with my M10 on the Gitzo 1410:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=22675678

The M20 won't look much different on the Feisol. It will fill it out another 1/4" or so, but that isn't enough to change the look. It's an imperfect world. Presumably the larger base does add some rigidity to the leg support system as a whole, though, so you just have to train your brain to think about it in positive ways

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Regards,
Neil

I have an RRS bracket but I have no reason that I wouldn't buy the Kirk. I have the Kirk 300/4 replacement collar and I think that is the best designed plate accessory I have, and it is every bit as well engineered as my RRS plates. I have a Kirk focusing rail and I think that is also a very good product.

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Regards,
Neil

Aaaargh... Ok another $165 for the kirl L bracket - $50 I would have paid for the simple plate ---> +$115
I think even with the feisol legs I will be way above $1000

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ClaudioG

I saw the picture of neil lillte m-20 on his monster tripod gitzo 4 serie.
Does your m-20 looks like that on your new feisol?

Is the platform 4 inches? (i cannot find this measurement on their web site)

Thanks
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Claudio

Are you planning on using a grip? if so, we might want to talk about it.

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Regards,
Neil

RSS L Bracket..

Link for D200 http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/body_plates/nikon/index.html

Yes neal I use the mb-200 battery pack. I find it give more stability to the camera in my hands and I have big hands!
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ClaudioG

ClaudioG said:

I saw the picture of neil lillte m-20 on his monster tripod gitzo 4
serie.
Does your m-20 looks like that on your new feisol?

Click to expand...

Something like it for sure. I've promised Neil a photo of the M20 on the Feisol. I'll be happy too post it here in a little while if you'd like. But I've got to cook dinner first so within a couple of hour plus if you don't mind waiting for it.

ClaudioG said:

Is the platform 4 inches? (i cannot find this measurement on their
web site)

Thanks
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Claudio

Click to expand...

I'll have to get back to you on this one as my husband is VERY hungry & getting impatient for his dinner....

Lil

I'll just tell you my story. I have shot a D2H for 2 years. I was used to having a grip. When I planned my order for a D200, I considered the grip. I did some research here and I noticed consistent comments here that the grip is not very stable on a tripod. In your hand it would not matter because it is just mass. Based on what I read, the grip is not generally considered to be of a quality commensurate with the D200 and it is considered flimsy. It apparently doesn't mate securely to the base. You would know better than I because I have never even handled a D200 grip. I just know I keep reading this over and over, and a number of people advised removing the grip when used on a tripod.

Now, I have a small fortune invested in support and the last thing I want to do is to jeopradize that with a shakey grip. The rub is that I have to make a decision between gripped and gripless L brackets and the gripped bracket is even more expensive than the already hideously expensive gripless L bracket.

If I buy a gripped L bracket I have to use the grip even if I get the same results as I read about here. If I buy a gripless bracket, I will have to remove the grip and install the bracket every time I use the tripod, and reverse the process when I take it off.

Although I could have gotten a great package price on the grip- about $130 I think, I never bought one because I couldn't see dealing with all that drama.

I hate to complicate things, but before you spend $165 you probably want to think about this.

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Regards,
Neil

I'd love to see it.
Buon appetit..
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Claudio