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X3 Alert: Code Yellow: Jaundiced Humans On Foveon Images?

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Bob the Printer said:
[snip]
Besides, white skin isn't white, it's a lot of different shades and
colors and the X3 pics that I have seen do an excellent job of
showing them...
Click to expand...
It turns out the model in Boxer.jpg is African-American. I can see that now I know, but even so, I think even for a light-skinned African-American the flesh tones look a bit too yellow to my eyes.

Cheers,
Pete
Bob the Printer said:
--
Sincerely,
Bob the Printer
Click to expand...
-- http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
 
Erm.. Not sure what you're talking about because I've got lots of human samples and all are fine. I suggest you check the calibration of your monitor.

If there are mistakes they're more than likely white balance problems, and down to the photographer rather than the chip.

You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Jung Lee said:
Urgent Request to All Friends X3 Followers:

On every published X3 image of human beings,
(Please see all or most known links listed for you below)
on looking at the SKIN TONE at the margins and shadows,
YELLOW waxy color cast is seen as if each human subject has
JAUNDICE or has CHOLESTEROL deposit problems under the skin!

We know that human skin has natural soft yellow cast and most
digital imaging corrects for pleasant skin tones through lens,
sensors, filters, phosphors (Sony) etc. I have to also mention that
color of white 'snow on rocks' images posted by Stephen Johnson
appears as blue 'detergent' color.

PURITY OF THE COLOR, the raison-de-etre for the sensational Foveon
X3 CMOS sensor technology images comes into question? Is it that
further interpolation and/or color correction algorithms are still
required for final X3 images?

Please see:
http://www.foveon.com/img/Pressroom/Boxer.jpg
http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

Would you help with a short reply starting with: AGREE, DISAGREE or
NOT SURE for the perceived color and followed by a reasoned
explanation, if you wish?

With Many Thanks in Advance
and Best Personal Regards,
Jung Lee
Click to expand...
 
Phil Askey said:
Erm.. Not sure what you're talking about because I've got lots of
human samples and all are fine. I suggest you check the calibration
of your monitor.
Click to expand...
For a minute I wondered what you were doing collecting human samples, then I realized what you meant.

Anyway, I think he was referring more to the pics on the Foveon and sjphoto site than yours. I think if more 1 person looks at a pic and has the same thought (i.e. "hmm, a bit yellow") then there must be something in it. I compared some of the pics of Joanna from other reviews you've done, and, yes, different lighting conditions etc. etc., but her skin tone looks very different in, say, the F707 pic. (Mind you, I always think the F707 has a bit of a magenta cast, so maybe that's not such a good comparison.)
Member said:
If there are mistakes they're more than likely white balance
problems, and down to the photographer rather than the chip.
Click to expand...
Quite likely, it just surprising to me that Foveon chose a couple of the pics they did to illustrate the color fidelity of the chip. The pool table is staggeringly good though.
Member said:
You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Facile and unworthy comment.

Cheers,
Pete
-- http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
 
Phil, are you biased, selective in your subjects and assessements?
BTW, You don't work for Sharp, Sony, XXX or who ever pays you!
How dare you accuse me to work for sharp, Sony, Matshushita?
Your reply is not by chance and definately not witty!
I am truly saddened by your careless insensitivity!
Please retact your accusation forth with!

All DPR Forum members are waiting your reply ASAP!

Sincerely,
Jung Lee
Phil Askey said:
Aww, and I thought it was fairly witty...

You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Jung Lee said:
Pete Cockerell said:
Facile and unworthy comment.

Cheers,
Pete

--
http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Sigh.
It is always tricky to make a joke that includes "inside information".

Phil was referring to the fact that these three compapnies are known for "inaccurate" "unnatural" color.

He failed to take into account that some people here are ignorant of the genre as a whole.

It was a joke. And a pretty good one IMO if you happened to be a student of the industry.

Homer
sam said:
Sam
Phil Askey said:
Pete Cockerell said:
sarhento said:
You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Facile and unworthy comment.

Cheers,
Pete

--
http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
No, the basic message was much less subtle than that: "If you don't like the colors from the Foveon chip, you must work for the competition." That's consistent with the dismissive tone of the rest of Phil's response. Personally, I think the Foveon chip will be well vindicated in the inevitable comparisons to follow, but that doesn't mean any questions about the extant Foveon images should be immediately shot down.

Out of interest, which cameras use sensors made by Sharp and Matsushita? Thanks.

Cheers,
Pete
Homer said:
Homer
sam said:
Sam
Phil Askey said:
Pete Cockerell said:
Homer40784 said:
You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Facile and unworthy comment.

Cheers,
Pete

--
http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
-- http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
 
If you've spent any amount of time on this site, you'll know just how untrue this accusation is. Over the last several years, Phil Askey has brought out fair and reasonably impartial reviews of new technologies from all of the companies.

To be fair, I've looked at the examples you sited in your earlier works and I don't see anything wrong with them. If there was, it can almost certainly be corrected by different white balance choices, lighting and filtering / post-processing.

Each of us has our own preference for what we think the ideal "color" of a subject should be. If you respect that, and bring your observations to this forum in an objective manner you'll find your reception here to be much warmer.

Phil, next time if you want to determine if someone works for a particular company or is otherwised biased, you might consider contacting them privately until you know otherwise.

-Hugh
Jung Lee said:
All DPR Forum members are waiting your reply ASAP!

Sincerely,
Jung Lee
Phil Askey said:
Aww, and I thought it was fairly witty...

You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Jung Lee said:
Urgent Request to All Friends X3 Followers:

On every published X3 image of human beings,
(Please see all or most known links listed for you below)
on looking at the SKIN TONE at the margins and shadows,
YELLOW waxy color cast is seen as if each human subject has
JAUNDICE or has CHOLESTEROL deposit problems under the skin!

We know that human skin has natural soft yellow cast and most
digital imaging corrects for pleasant skin tones through lens,
sensors, filters, phosphors (Sony) etc. I have to also mention that
color of white 'snow on rocks' images posted by Stephen Johnson
appears as blue 'detergent' color.

PURITY OF THE COLOR, the raison-de-etre for the sensational Foveon
X3 CMOS sensor technology images comes into question? Is it that
further interpolation and/or color correction algorithms are still
required for final X3 images?

Please see:
http://www.foveon.com/img/Pressroom/Boxer.jpg
http://www.sjphoto.com/web-special/index.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

Would you help with a short reply starting with: AGREE, DISAGREE or
NOT SURE for the perceived color and followed by a reasoned
explanation, if you wish?

With Many Thanks in Advance
and Best Personal Regards,
Jung Lee
Click to expand...
-- http://www.pbase.com/galleries/sasc
 
No Pete.

I read the message as "if you're going to post some ridiculous conclusions, and kick up a big fuss based on no data, it's as if you were working for one of their competitors".

I laughed.
Pete Cockerell said:
No, the basic message was much less subtle than that: "If you don't
like the colors from the Foveon chip, you must work for the
competition." That's consistent with the dismissive tone of the
rest of Phil's response. Personally, I think the Foveon chip will
be well vindicated in the inevitable comparisons to follow, but
that doesn't mean any questions about the extant Foveon images
should be immediately shot down.

Out of interest, which cameras use sensors made by Sharp and
Matsushita? Thanks.

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...
 
I am not so sure now for the record of my defence for Phil Askey: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=2113011
Jung Lee said:
As for the "rubbish" response in a thread post, word
“rubbish” means garbage, junk, not useful opinion,
argument or fact as not correct, false or wrong as understood.
"Rubbish IN (the misunderstanding mind) Rubbish OUT (from the
camera)" applies to all photographic and human activities. Let's
not get "rubbished wrong way", if a proper use of British
vernacular is neither understood nor respected in an international
forum!

"Raison de etre" for a superb site like DPR and the global
professional acceptance of excellent efforts of Mr. Askey and his
cohorts do require separating "apparent resolution" with "not
correct=rubbish" response from "standard test Resolution" criteria
for respected technical opinions!

Many "Kudos" to Mr. Phil Askey,"Three Cheers" for the entire DPR
team and "Many Thanks" to all dedicated posters to DPR Forums for a
"job well done" and as usual, "come d'habitude"! Despite use of
quotes, no reservations!

Regards,
Jung Lee and DPR Friends
"We Are Sensitive Pixels and Not British"
Click to expand...
 
BINGO Andrew. ;-)
Andrew Booth said:
I read the message as "if you're going to post some ridiculous
conclusions, and kick up a big fuss based on no data, it's as if
you were working for one of their competitors".

I laughed.
Pete Cockerell said:
No, the basic message was much less subtle than that: "If you don't
like the colors from the Foveon chip, you must work for the
competition." That's consistent with the dismissive tone of the
rest of Phil's response. Personally, I think the Foveon chip will
be well vindicated in the inevitable comparisons to follow, but
that doesn't mean any questions about the extant Foveon images
should be immediately shot down.

Out of interest, which cameras use sensors made by Sharp and
Matsushita? Thanks.

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Jung , Aside from the fact that this is Phils's site and YOU are the guest here ...

Anyone who has spent a bit of time time on this site over the last few years would know that Phil Askey is an honest and unbiased evaluator of digtal camera systems.

I it quite normal taht peolple who comes here and make unstubstantiated or erronious remarks might be viewed with a bit of skepticism.

I have a SONY Trinitron monitor that has been suitably color calibrated and I have noticed no yellowing of skin color in the sample images that you referred to.

There are many opportunies for color imbalances to creep into an image ... the last one is the monitor and ambient lighting the viewer is using. The camera manufacturer and photographer have no control of your viewing conditions.

Mr Askey owes you no retraction. You should apologize for overreacting.

Dr. William R. Sterling
Jung Lee said:
All DPR Forum members are waiting your reply ASAP!

Sincerely,
Jung Lee
Phil Askey said:
Aww, and I thought it was fairly witty...

You don't work for Sharp, Sony or Matsushita by any chance?
Click to expand...
Jung Lee said:
Pete Cockerell said:
Facile and unworthy comment.

Cheers,
Pete

--
http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
This is the most imcomprehensible thread I have ever read starting with the original post. What is that yellow human thing? Was there a racist comment?
 
Hariette said:
This is the most imcomprehensible thread I have ever read starting
with the original post. What is that yellow human thing? Was there
a racist comment?
Click to expand...
Would that it were that straightforward. Just the usual Internet forum nonsense (whether it be this site, Usenet, chat rooms, or whatever) of people getting a little too steamed a little too quickly, other people not fully divining the effects of their words, yet other people wading in to mix it up a bit. All very entertaining while we wait for the rest of the PMA announcements, and no long-term harm to anyone, I'm sure.

But I still don't think Frank should have called Chong Zhi a yellow slant-eyed git.

Cheers,
Pete

-- http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
 
Jung Lee said:
Jung Lee wrote:
Phil, are you biased, selective in your subjects and assessements?
Click to expand...
If you beleive he is biased, why bother coming here? VERY few other share your opinion.
Jung Lee said:
BTW, You don't work for Sharp, Sony, XXX or who ever pays you!
How dare you accuse me to work for sharp, Sony, Matshushita?
Your reply is not by chance and definately not witty!
I am truly saddened by your careless insensitivity!
Please retact your accusation forth with!

All DPR Forum members are waiting your reply ASAP!
Click to expand...
Sorry NOT ALL or even close, and I find YOUR behavior offensive. Read carefully the replies from William R Sterling, Andrew Booth and Homer just to name a FEW !! It was YOU that came up with the original rubbish (in my opinion and others, and now you can't take light hearted humouous replies).
More sincerely
JKirk
Learn to place nice in the sandbox.
Jung Lee said:
Sincerely,
Jung Lee
Click to expand...
 
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