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Foveon support!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ulysses
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The thing is that I'd hardly expect Nikon or Canon to make a public announcement of support, even if privately they were taking a good look at the X3 or other variant (they'd more likely question Sony Semiconductor on the possibility of emulating the effort). This would burn the bridges they've built upon for years.

Heavyweights like Adobe and Microsoft are hardly the AHAA. :)

These two have the thrust to move the technology and even the name into high public awareness. You need the infrastructural support before you see it in the hardware.

It's the difference between saying: "Hey, we have this support. Now will you build a camera with it?" versus saying, "Hey, we have this camera and chip. Now, who's going to support it?". :)
Andreas P. said:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=2256115
Click to expand...
-- Ulysses
 
Hi Eric,
Erichatch said:
Wanna buy a slightly used 707 now, before the prices drop like a rock?
Click to expand...
Already frustrated? Yes, it will become an interesting year.

Except one i have all cameras on ebay. My D30 is already sold.
But, after there is more information available, i will buy a D60 or SD9.

Okay, the wisest decsion would be wait until the Photokina. But then,
with which camera you will take photos this year?

Regards,

Andreas
 
Raw foveon is essentially just another form of bitmap, so its support is hardlly ground-breaking. Makes good PR, but little else.

Its like having an announcement saying they support Sony RAW (TIFF).

Peter
Ulysses said:
Heavyweights like Adobe and Microsoft are hardly the AHAA. :)

These two have the thrust to move the technology and even the name
into high public awareness. You need the infrastructural support
before you see it in the hardware.

It's the difference between saying: "Hey, we have this support. Now
will you build a camera with it?" versus saying, "Hey, we have
this camera and chip. Now, who's going to support it?". :)
Andreas P. said:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=2256115
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Click to expand...
 
Well,

I don't see a big benefit here. If the SW of a Foveon chipped camera
has offers 16bit TIF i am already satisfied.

Regards,

Andreas
 
Putting gas in my car isn't exciting either. But I need it to get the car moving forward. :)

I'd hardly put this in the same bag as an alleged Sony RAW mode (what IS that anyway?).
Peter G said:
Raw foveon is essentially just another form of bitmap, so its
support is hardlly ground-breaking. Makes good PR, but little else.

Its like having an announcement saying they support Sony RAW (TIFF).-- Ulysses
Click to expand...
 
Considering that it will be next year before you can get a 1.3MP X3 camera, it is just a tad early to panic. But if you want to sell me your 707 real cheap, I will take it off your hands. :-)

Peter
erichocinc said:
Ulysses said:
Adobe will be supporting the Foveon RAW image data.

And Microsoft's Bill Gates has endorsed the technology.

Phil is hard at work bringing you news even before the show opens!
Actually, the lectures have already started. Read on:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02022302foveonmicrosoft.asp

Holy cow!!! This is potentially HUGE news....
--

Ulysses
Click to expand...
--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc
Click to expand...
 
The benefit isn't in that you need this technology. The benefit is in acceptance and what it will do to move others onto the Foveon playing field. Not so much a technological benefit as opening a doorway for other companies to get on board with it.
Andreas P. said:
Well,

I don't see a big benefit here. If the SW of a Foveon chipped camera
has offers 16bit TIF i am already satisfied.

Regards,

Andreas
Click to expand...
-- Ulysses
 
Andreas P. said:
Except one i have all cameras on ebay. My D30 is already sold.
But, after there is more information available, i will buy a D60 or
SD9.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I heard about that. :)))

But my guess is that at some point, you will have both. Your wife is much too generous with you. Bahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!©

-- Ulysses
 
Agreed.

I'd like to see this stuff come online as early as anyone else, but I'm not going to lose my DA over it. At least, not yet.... ;-)

Or maybe if Andreas lends me one of his "used" cameras....
Peter G said:
Considering that it will be next year before you can get a 1.3MP X3
camera, it is just a tad early to panic. But if you want to sell me
your 707 real cheap, I will take it off your hands. :-)-- Ulysses
Click to expand...
 
Member said:
But my guess is that at some point, you will have both. Your wife
is much too generous with you. Bahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!©
Click to expand...
No, i am getting older and... wiser?

We will all benefit from this progress (assuming that some of the Foveon news won't be marketing speeches).

I am not regretting that i sold my D30. But if i will buy now the D60 i will
already loose a lot of money in June/July because of the Nikon D100.

I am sure at the Photokina we will see the first other Foveon equipped cams for example i.g. Casio.

Although Sony is a very innovative company i guess they will use their own

CCD's. Until they are on par with this technology it will take a while (a long one).

Or they just buy the patent :)

Regards,

Andreas
 
Member said:
It's the difference between saying: "Hey, we have this support. Now
will you build a camera with it?" versus saying, "Hey, we have
this camera and chip. Now, who's going to support it?". :)
Click to expand...
Hehee, I must say I have a totally different POV on this, knowing how MS has operated since day one ...

Dont forget, MS gotten so huge is not because it was good at developing new sw ... MS gotten this big because it was good a buying up the company that was good at developing these new sw.

So ... The way I see it is ... Now that Gates has offered such support within his operating system that he wont even offer to other well established "imaging" sw ...

What I see is ... "How that we support your data format ... how much are you selling to sell your soul to me? Heck, I can make you, and I can break you just as fast ... All I need to do is not ship that one little system DLL" ...

Hmm, MS Web-cam, anyone?

jc
 
Peter G said:
Raw foveon is essentially just another form of bitmap, so its
support is hardlly ground-breaking. Makes good PR, but little else.

Its like having an announcement saying they support Sony RAW (TIFF).
Click to expand...
Foveon RAW (and raw in general) is different from a bitmap format in several ways. RAW is typically compressed format with 12 or so bits per pixel. It will require decompression and some processing to display on the screen.

The most important aspect of Microsoft's announcement is that one probaby will not need a browser plugin to view such files in explorer or outlook. This paves the way for Foveon to penetrate the low end of the market with consumer oriented cameras that save in their raw format b/c clueless consumers will be able to mail such files to each other without worrying about conversion.

Why not just store in jpeg? I'm guessing that foveon wants to make really cheap cameras without the hardware horsepower to do the jpeg conversion.

At the high end, this raises hope of some standardization for a standardized and clean way of dealing with RAW files. Canon and Nikon both have tools for doing this, but most people don't like these tools and use third party software. Cottage industries have developing around this, so making the whole raw conversion thing go smoothly is a definite plus.

--Ron ParrFAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.htmlGallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
Ron -

You found the word that I was looking for. When it comes to standardization, there are few who can do so better than Microsoft and Adobe, even though some of us like to make fun of and chastise them from time to time. They're heavyweights, and their voice could go a long ways towards standization.

A couple of other thoughts:
Ron Parr said:
The most important aspect of Microsoft's announcement is that one
probaby will not need a browser plugin to view such files in
explorer or outlook.
Click to expand...
What was so interesting about this is that I've never heard of an OS natively being able to accept and handle a digital image's RAW format of any type (unless I'm just mistaken here). If correct, then that is something to pay attention to.
Member said:
This paves the way for Foveon to penetrate
the low end of the market with consumer oriented cameras that save
in their raw format b/c clueless consumers will be able to mail
such files to each other without worrying about conversion.
Click to expand...
And the lower end is really where Microsoft works best, too. They make powerhouse products, too. But they make their real money through the acceptance by the middle of the road consumer. Getting Foveon into the middle of the road means getting it mainstream.
Member said:
Why not just store in jpeg? I'm guessing that foveon wants to make
really cheap cameras without the hardware horsepower to do the
jpeg conversion.
Click to expand...
Interesting.
Member said:
Cottage industries have
developing around this, so making the whole raw conversion thing go
smoothly is a definite plus.
Click to expand...
It's always a big deal when one software product or another offers support for the Canon RAW format or for the Nikon this-or-that camera RAW format. In a similar way, I'd classify this as a "big deal" on a larger scale. One that could affect standards and a huge slice of the public, if they make it happen rather than ending here with the PR. -- Ulysses
 
Ron Parr said:
Foveon RAW (and raw in general) is different from a bitmap format
in several ways. RAW is typically compressed format with 12 or so
bits per pixel. It will require decompression and some processing
to display on the screen.
Click to expand...
Ron, pardon me, but about what compression are you talking? Once I was working with Photoshop generated RAW files, trying to make my own image filter. In 8 bit per channel mode those files are just a byte stream with every 3 sequential bytes representing RGB colors in single pixel. In a way it is a color bit map, at least for this specific format.
Regards.
Vlad.
 
Ron -

Your comments are mirrored by the Imaging Resource:

"These moves would give Foveon and its customers a very significant advantage, since RAW formats from most competitors either rely on proprietary decoding software, plugins for a handful of imaging applications, or support from third-parties (mostly shareware programmers) who've decoded the formats themselves."-- Ulysses
 
Member said:
"These moves would give Foveon and its customers a very significant
advantage, since RAW formats from most competitors either rely on
proprietary decoding software, plugins for a handful of imaging
applications, or support from third-parties (mostly shareware
programmers) who've decoded the formats themselves."
Click to expand...
Yes, but look at this from another POV ... Instead of meaning MS supporting Foevon the hardware, all MS is doing is supporting Foevon the SW ... ie: its RAW format ...

This can also translate into other RAW format firmwares may change into the Foevon format ... which does nothing for the Foevon chip ...

jc
 
You think Sony would adopt Foveon? Are Sony and M$ partners? I just find it intersting that Sony builds their own chips, mem sticks and supports the palm software (Clie) yet works with both AMD and Intel and has XP shipping on their PC's. Both sides of the fence, huh.

So where are the Pocket PC2002 Clie's?

Bottom line, will Sony develop their own "Foveon" chip?

This will be a good year.--DavidMy galleries http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292111925http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292056545 'What we have here is a failure to communicate' - Cool Hand Luke
 
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