STF - Scandal and Intrigue

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avanbeek

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Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other people's ideas and techniques...

Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...

STAY TUNED!!!--Regards,
AVB
http://www.pbase.com/avanbeek
 
Hey man!!!

You DON'T... mess... with... Jessica... [cue dramatic organ music... fade to commercial]
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...

Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...

STAY TUNED!!!-- Ulysses
 
I knew that would get a "rise" out of you, he he he
You DON'T... mess... with... Jessica... [cue dramatic organ
music... fade to commercial]
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...

Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...

STAY TUNED!!!
--

Ulysses
--Regards,AVB http://www.pbase.com/avanbeek
 
Who are you and what did you do with my elephant?!
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...

Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...

STAY TUNED!!!
--
Regards,
AVB
http://www.pbase.com/avanbeek
--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...
(...and more)

Well, I for one am still waiting for a serious explanation on that one.
Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...
Stay tuned for scenes from an all new episode.
--My photo galleries: http://www.pbase.com/davidp
 
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...
(...and more)

Well, I for one am still waiting for a serious explanation on
that one.
ditto
Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...
Stay tuned for scenes from an all new episode.

--
My photo galleries: http://www.pbase.com/davidp
--Faye
 
Perhaps this requires a thread all on its own...
Comments being deleted...

Images disappearing...

Images Re-appearing...

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...
(...and more)

Well, I for one am still waiting for a serious explanation on
that one.
ditto
Stay tuned to the Sony Talk Forum Diary for exciting updates. Will
Shay admit that the baby is his, can Zipper possibly survive the
bitter cold after his single engine plane went down on the slopes
of K2, will Shutter's amnesia clear up and will he remember his
days in the circus, can Ulysses continue to stave off the advances
of Jessica Alba or will he crumble...
Stay tuned for scenes from an all new episode.

--
My photo galleries: http://www.pbase.com/davidp
--
Faye
--Regards,AVB http://www.pbase.com/avanbeek
 
[snip]

Rumours that some Challenge posters are directly ripping off other
people's ideas and techniques...
(...and more)

Well, I for one am still waiting for a serious explanation on
that one.
Maybe there's something we're entitled to await ... maybe not. Seems to me that explanations for both instances were given — one within a thread in this forum and the other within the now deleted comments on the image in question.

In the case of the current instance, I recall that at least two people left comments noting that it was a well established macro technique, legitimately developed and executed. While I personally would have tried to compose it differently (different vehicle supporting the drop maybe), isn't that beside the point? Even granted that the makeup of this shot is the same as another, I'll wager that more people around the world have tried shooting liquid splash coronas and dripping taps, for example, than any one of us has had hot dinners. Is that to say that only one person's entitled to attempt such a shot and, moreover, to publish the result if it's a good one?

In the case of the earlier, resurrected shot, the similarity to another POTD published elsewhere is both uncanny and unfortunate, especially since it extends as far as the title. But again, an explanation was given. To still hang out for a further "explanation" is to admit that we refuse to believe what's been said already. We will have all formed our own private opinions on this, but if we want more then we should be prepared to put up the money and say exactly why. Failing that, it's now time for us to accept graciously what's been proffered and shut up.

As I said, uncanny and unfortunate, and if really done with conscious awareness and intent, then rather unwise — but naive more than plagiaristic: while creativity is a big thing, I suspect that technique and resulting image quality would have to be closer to the "official" bottom line in this particular arena. And the poster involved has well and truly demonstrated his mastery of both aspects very well and on numerous occasions. This is hardly a bumbling rookie who needs to struggle for recognition through subterfuge.

I'm no stranger to coincidence, and I would venture to suggest that the title of that shot is pretty much a household phrase. Even down here in Oz we would recognise it as a marketing catch phrase for CA fruit, for example. And not only fruit ... does no-one else recall the Jolson standard "California, here I come!" btw? Google just gave me 20,100 hits on the phrase.

Yes, I winced at the similarities too, and yes, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. Now I may have missed the odd thread, but but I've not heard of anyone else's comments being deleted. Are we talking about an equal coincidence? I'm sure that it has crossed other minds, as well, that the deletion of those comments could be some individual's vigilante response to alleged "crimes", under the convenient cloak of anonymity that the sftchallenge logon affords. The STF prides itself on an almost singularly cordial, friendly and typically non-judgemental atmosphere. But if this turn of events (I'm talking only about the deletions here) is really how we want to play it then we should consider shutting down the entire forum right here and now. And I don't think any of us really wants that...

Mike
 
Ok, I will dicuss this and explain myself one last time...if you don't believe me...I will pull all my entries from challenge 11 and no longer post here...I don't mind being criticized, but I will not tolerate being called a liar.

First let me say that I have enjoyed being here at STF, I have learned alot and I have improved very much in the last few months. For the record, I have entered over 27 undisputed original works in the last five challenges. I have won one challenge, came third in Challenge 10 and finished in the Top Ten in the last four challenges in a row. I don't think I have need to go to the level I have been accused of here.

The first photo in question is Sun Kissed. The concept came to me when I saw an advertisement that showed a half cut lemon dripping juice into some deteregent to be lemon fresh. My plan was to take a thinly cut whole slice of an orange and have it drip drops. Well, either I wasn't good enough or I did have enough patience...I couldn't get that perfect drop, except in one shot...which, to my dismay, had cut the top edge of the slice off. Since I only had this shot with the perfect drop ( took me 3 hrs.), I had to crop it to half and modified the background. If anyone can remember...probably not...I initially entered this photo as Sun's Nectar but then I changed it to Sun Kissed on a suggestion by a friend...I liked it better so I changed the name.

Now...did I know that a very similar entry called Sun Kissed of a half lemon existed and was a POTD just recently? No...how many of you did?!. Would I believe me if I were someone else...probably not...fortunately for me, it's the truth. But would I be so stupid to copy exactly this person's work and even more stupid to name it the same...if I were trying to deceive I would have cropped it differently and definitely named it differently. More importantly...did I think that you people at STF were going to be unaware of such a deception...that would have been really stupid. The first time I saw the other sun kissed was when an anonymous person commented on one of my entries and left a link with the suggestion that I had copied. When I saw it...I was shocked and dissapointed and even felt guilty that my idea was not an original. Let me ask you guys...how many of you really know that some of your ideas are not already ideas someone's has had in their album or photocontest?

The second one is dropograghy. This photo is a different thing all together. Yes I saw LIZ's photo in shutterbug...that's where I got my idea. I have repeatedly said as have 2 other commetors that this is NOT a new idea. But I entered it because I wanted to do it differently. How? If you noticed in LIZ's work the flag in the drop in inverted compared to the image in back. I wanted to be able to take a dropograph that was upright with background image also being upright. Achieving this was much harder than I expected as I have explained in another thread. Is this immoral or unethical or uncool? Some of you may say yes but I feel I worked hard and learned alot about focal length and inversion mirrors doing this project. Was my end result different in it's goal?...yes. Does the image look sort of similar to LIZ's?...of course it does. Is it wrong to take someone's idea and see if you can look at it differently or even make it better? I don't think so.

Finally...am I in this for money or fame...no. Am I in this to learn about techniques of photography and improve myself. Have I tried to help and advise others what I have learned... I try too.

Think of this as you will...I have. We keep saying this is supposed to be fun and these aren't contests they are challenges...feels more like a cut throat competition to the death. I mean...for someone to delete the comments on all my entries...what would call that. It's sad that it has come to this...but if I am going to be constantly second guessed or questioned...maybe it is time to move on.

debadguy--debadguy
 
Hi debadguy,

As the person who brought this out for discussion, I apologize for your embarrassment and annoyance but I saw no other way to bring this to a head and get it overwith.

I completely accept your explanation of what happened and hopefully we will all be able to put this subject to rest and get on with the fun part of the challenges.

Regards,
AVB
Ok, I will dicuss this and explain myself one last time...if you
don't believe me...I will pull all my entries from challenge 11 and
no longer post here...I don't mind being criticized, but I will not
tolerate being called a liar.

First let me say that I have enjoyed being here at STF, I have
learned alot and I have improved very much in the last few months.
For the record, I have entered over 27 undisputed original works in
the last five challenges. I have won one challenge, came third in
Challenge 10 and finished in the Top Ten in the last four
challenges in a row. I don't think I have need to go to the level I
have been accused of here.

The first photo in question is Sun Kissed. The concept came to me
when I saw an advertisement that showed a half cut lemon dripping
juice into some deteregent to be lemon fresh. My plan was to take a
thinly cut whole slice of an orange and have it drip drops. Well,
either I wasn't good enough or I did have enough patience...I
couldn't get that perfect drop, except in one shot...which, to my
dismay, had cut the top edge of the slice off. Since I only had
this shot with the perfect drop ( took me 3 hrs.), I had to crop it
to half and modified the background. If anyone can
remember...probably not...I initially entered this photo as Sun's
Nectar but then I changed it to Sun Kissed on a suggestion by a
friend...I liked it better so I changed the name.
Now...did I know that a very similar entry called Sun Kissed of a
half lemon existed and was a POTD just recently? No...how many of
you did?!. Would I believe me if I were someone else...probably
not...fortunately for me, it's the truth. But would I be so stupid
to copy exactly this person's work and even more stupid to name it
the same...if I were trying to deceive I would have cropped it
differently and definitely named it differently. More
importantly...did I think that you people at STF were going to be
unaware of such a deception...that would have been really stupid.
The first time I saw the other sun kissed was when an anonymous
person commented on one of my entries and left a link with the
suggestion that I had copied. When I saw it...I was shocked and
dissapointed and even felt guilty that my idea was not an original.
Let me ask you guys...how many of you really know that some of your
ideas are not already ideas someone's has had in their album or
photocontest?

The second one is dropograghy. This photo is a different thing all
together. Yes I saw LIZ's photo in shutterbug...that's where I got
my idea. I have repeatedly said as have 2 other commetors that
this is NOT a new idea. But I entered it because I wanted to do it
differently. How? If you noticed in LIZ's work the flag in the drop
in inverted compared to the image in back. I wanted to be able to
take a dropograph that was upright with background image also being
upright. Achieving this was much harder than I expected as I have
explained in another thread. Is this immoral or unethical or
uncool? Some of you may say yes but I feel I worked hard and
learned alot about focal length and inversion mirrors doing this
project. Was my end result different in it's goal?...yes. Does the
image look sort of similar to LIZ's?...of course it does. Is it
wrong to take someone's idea and see if you can look at it
differently or even make it better? I don't think so.

Finally...am I in this for money or fame...no. Am I in this to
learn about techniques of photography and improve myself. Have I
tried to help and advise others what I have learned... I try too.
Think of this as you will...I have. We keep saying this is supposed
to be fun and these aren't contests they are challenges...feels
more like a cut throat competition to the death. I mean...for
someone to delete the comments on all my entries...what would call
that. It's sad that it has come to this...but if I am going to be
constantly second guessed or questioned...maybe it is time to move
on.

debadguy
--
debadguy
--Regards,AVB http://www.pbase.com/avanbeek
 
It has been quite awhile since I have posted in this forum. Eons ago when I got a brand new F-505(pre V) I was fairly active here. An E-10 is my primary cam now so I hang out in the Oly SLR forum for the most part. I still read this forum and enjoy the images in the challenge each month. My point in stating the above is to try and show I have no axe to grind or forum ego to protect.

Now to the meat of this post. If the detailed explanation just offered by debadguy is not enough to satisfy his critics then in my opinion they are the ones with the problem. Come on people how much more can you expect. Drop this foolishness and move on before you wreck an excellent forum. After reading all the posts concerning the issues debadguy addressed I would think a few people owe an apology. In particular the "thief" poster.

Debadguy I have enjoyed your images even though as only a Sony lurker I made no comments. I hope I get the opportunity to continue to enjoy your photos. All the best to you.

--John
 
I am glad you are here. I truely enjoy your work and hope to see much more of it... right here in STF and the Challenges. It's terrible that this explanation had to be forced onto you by those who would believe the worst. I hope that you stay and flourish and continue to create original work, and experiment with the work pioneered by others. Do not let this dampen your obvious love for this.

ScarBoro
Ok, I will dicuss this and explain myself one last time...--I would rather look back and regret some of the things I have done, than to look back and regret all of the things I haven't done. s.j.b.
 

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