So with the announcement of the D40x, will there be

digitalshooter

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a A100X?

Seems like we can never make any head way for the high end market. I know, promises, promises.

Reality is that Sony is in the middle and lower market and with Nikon's announcement, cant believe that Sony is not developing in that area also.

D40x looks nice.

--
Thanks,

Digitalshooter!

Member of the 7D and Beercan Cult! Looking for a muffler for my 7D!

The light at the end of the tunnel is becoming clearer and its calling me to the darkside!
 
...

As said befrore, IMHO the D40/D40x are a trap! Lower body price to start with, but after you got it, only motorized AF lenses will work!

Sony should only announce any new body after PMA and avoid all the messy confusion of new cameras already announced!

... Lucas

--
You're welcome to: http://www.pbase.com/lucaspix
Always having fun with photography ...

 
...
As said befrore, IMHO the D40/D40x are a trap! Lower body price to
start with, but after you got it, only motorized AF lenses will
work!
Why? Most people that buy this cams will use a kit lens and maybe the new telezoom on it. Not a big limitation for the target group.
Sony should only announce any new body after PMA and avoid all the
messy confusion of new cameras already announced!
I reckon many hesitators will wait for PMA announcements. If Sony doesn't at least give a sneak preview, they might lose a lot of potential buyers and impatient pro's.
 
...
As said befrore, IMHO the D40/D40x are a trap! Lower body price to
start with, but after you got it, only motorized AF lenses will
work!
Why? Most people that buy this cams will use a kit lens and maybe
the new telezoom on it. Not a big limitation for the target group.
One of the reasons I went with the A100 instead of a D80 was its poor support for older Nikon lenses. And the D40/40x is even worse.

You basically have to buy a Nikon D200 to be able to take advantage of older lenses you may pick up cheaply on eBay which defeats the object.

It also turned me off Nikon as a company as I saw this as deliberate product differentiation that only Canon was guilty of (i.e. with the "slugged" rebel series that is widely believed to have been deliberately limited so as not to complete with the 20D when introduced).

It goes like this.

Nikon D40/40x - more recent AF-S and AF-I lenses only.

Nikon D80 all AF lenses including those without motors but no metering with manual focus lenses (so my Tamron 350mm mirror would not meter for example).

Nikon D200 - compatible and meters with just about every Nikon lens you may want to own.

Now I may not be a typical D40 buyer in the sense I would not be buying it as a sort of super point and shoot camera but I can't be the only person in the world who does not have unlimited funds to spend on esoteric cameras like the D200 and expect to pay less but still get a functional camera.

People like myself would, I think, be frustrated over time with the D40/40x poor legacy lens support

Dave
 
Is not the price of the D40X more in line with the current selling price of the A100, whereas the D80, the next model up, is at least $200-300 more than the A100? Thus, one "could" argue that Nikon is "catching up" to the A100 (and Canon, as dpreview has suggested) in offering a 10 MP camera at that price point. And note too that the D40X only has one control dial, as do the Canon and Sony bodies. What this suggests is that Sony over-priced the A100 upon its release, perhaps knowing of the pent-up demand for the camera when sales were likely to be the greatest, and were. The continual drop in its price has not seemed to do much for sales.

Sony is covered at the lower end of the camera spectrum right now, although perhaps not at the lowest (i.e., a less expensive, entry level 6 MP camera). It's anything above that where Sony is really lacking.

--
Mark Van Bergh
 
Yes, it's not nice that Nikon doesn't continue the great tradition of backward compatibility in all it's models. But this is a feature that mostly more pro & fanatic amateur users will be appreciating. They have to cut back on something in order to compete with other brands and make a easy step up for potential DSLR system fanatics.

On eBay you see millions of Nikon f60s, Canon eos3000s, Minolta 404s along with plastic junk kitlenses. Loads of people love to go on holiday with a relative pro looking camera, having no idea where all those knobs are for. These people would be way better of with a nice p&s but every brand knows it's big business, and hopefully it helps those brands developing better models for pro's as well.
 
The lack of backward compatibility is what drove me away from Nikon a long while back. And not just lenses, the flash systems were also incompatible.

However, the legacy Nikon owner is certainly not the target market for the D40/D40X. It's really the entry point for the first time buyer.

Sony made a big point of backward compatibility with the A100. But given the 1.5:1 factor, a lot of the legacy lenses don't get you much. Some do, of course, but the wider ones suddenly become not wide enough. In that respect, Nikon has a better range of AF-S lenses at low to moderate prices than anyone except (oddly) Olympus.

The E510 looks like a winner in the market place.

By the way, how many of your Nikon legacy lenses work on your A100?
--
Jerry
 
Is not the price of the D40X more in line with the current selling
price of the A100, whereas the D80, the next model up, is at least
$200-300 more than the A100? Thus, one "could" argue that Nikon is
"catching up" to the A100 (and Canon, as dpreview has suggested) in
offering a 10 MP camera at that price point. And note too that the
D40X only has one control dial, as do the Canon and Sony bodies.
What this suggests is that Sony over-priced the A100 upon its
release, perhaps knowing of the pent-up demand for the camera when
sales were likely to be the greatest, and were. The continual drop
in its price has not seemed to do much for sales.
The point I was making was the deliberate dumbing down of the D40/40x was not a good thing not where the A100 sat in the scheme of things.

However if you want to talk about where a model sits in the range why are people fixated with price as a guide to this? It should be features what determines this not price.

Personally I think the D80 is over-priced. The advantages over the A100 are the second dial and the bigger viewfinder but that is it from my perspective. I am sure people can list other things it has over the A100 but they didn't figure on my list of pros and cons as significant. There are things the A100 has over the D80 most notably SSS.

So IMO the A100 is a competitor for the D80 not the D40 but that is based on features not price.

Dave
 
By the way, how many of your Nikon legacy lenses work on your A100?
My Tamron 350mm meters on the A100, it would not on the Nikon D40 or D80.

I don't own any other Nikon fit lenses but had a D80 worked with a broader range of legacy Nikon glass and my Tamron I could have envisaged picking up a nice manual focus 135mm F2.8 for example (as it would be a 200mm F2.8 equivalent on aps-c).

Another camera that would have worked with my Tamron would be any Oly d-slr with the adaptor and I considered them as well for that reason but at the time the 510 was not out and I am still not convinced it is the answer as a mid range camera.

Dave
 
aren't too impressed with Nikon's offering, much like Sony/KM shooters, they want a new high end camera.
 
But, Cope, they already have a really impressive higher end camera. The D200 is looking better by the moment to me.

Come on, Sony. Give us a clue!
 
a A100X?

Seems like we can never make any head way for the high end market.
I know, promises, promises.

Reality is that Sony is in the middle and lower market and with
Nikon's announcement, cant believe that Sony is not developing in
that area also.

D40x looks nice.
D40X is only there in order to compete with the A100. Nikon had no camera at A100 street prices to compete with the A100 on specifications and pixel count. The D40X is there for that purpose, and also of course to compete with the Canon 400D. On paper the A100 is still ahead of the D40X, offering faster card writing/buffering, no cap on JPEG continuous, and the huge benefit of SSS in body. It also uses countless independent and marque used lenses as well as many new ones - the D40X is extremely limited (the buyer will not discover this, because they won't ask) and is locked out from using hundreds of types of current and recent Nikon AF mount lenses including all Tokina, all Tamron, all Vivitar, all Cosina, about two-thirds of Sigma's line-up - etc etc

In contrast, at FOCUS ON IMAGING last week the Disabled Photographers' Society was selling a load of old Minolta fit gear donated to raise funds. This included some Sigma AF lenses so old they don't even look like lenses - pre-1990 70-300mm Apo, pre-1990 24mm, etc. For the benefit of some interested buyers, who wanted lenses for £10 or £15 each but were unsure of whether they would work, I mounted this old glass on my A100 - every single one functioned perfectly. Sometimes, I wonder if KM/Sony owners really understand how good what they have got IS compared to the other side of the hill.

David
 
I read through this whole thread, and I'd like to offer a few observations.

First, I'm between DSLR's right now and am looking around for the next one. (What I last had and why I dumped it are really not germain.) So I'm looking at all the lines. One of the things I've noted is that Nikon and Olympus have the best selections of low to moderate cost lenses for their cameras (E-510 and D40X). The Nikon 18-135 is the pick of the bunch, plastic mount and all. Sony has a rather limited selection of moderate price glass so you have to rely on Sigma, which I totally do not trust for quality control or reliability; or Tamron who has a limited line. Same for Canon. Lots of lenses in their line, but most are costly, and the low cost ones are not all that good. Pentax is the worst off by far.

Second, the Minolta legacy lens inventory is weak in wider angle zoom lenses, those starting at 17 or 18 mm. Plus, finding one of the few models that do exist is chancy. Lots of primes, and lots of 70-210 and 70-300's available though. Pentax has the same issue.

Third, I sense a lot of defensiveness in this forum. I surmise it's because all the established brand followers are picking on the "new kid on the block". Once the line expands, I think that will pass, although there will always be brand rivalry and "feature envy". I totally don't understand the Sony versus Minolta friction. If it wasn't for Sony there would be no ongoing body to use all those legacy lenses on. As an outsider I really don't see a break here, just a name change.

Fourth, one of the strengths of the Sony is the ability to use the pop up flash as a master for remote units. Canon totally lacks this. I hardly see it mentioned.

Fifth, Nikon pretty much had the D40X planned in or it would not have come so quickly. The AF-S only issue is a good thing for sale of Nikon lenses, of which there are 14 reasonably affordable current AF-S models plus a few discontinued ones. I really don't see that as a drawback, because like most potential new Nikon buyers, I have no inventory of legacy stuff. I do think Nikon is making a mistake in not offering the 18-135 and D40X as a kit. Oddly, Nikon has 6 current AF-S zoom lenses that start at 12-18 mm and only two longer zooms.

Sixth, Pentax is the real loser in all this. The K100D is a nice camera. AF is a little slow, and the lens selection is very limited, but it's still a nice camera. But it's only 6 MP. That's enough if you don't crop a lot, but it's not enough from a sales standpoint.

Seventh and last: To some extent, we're "preaching to the choir". Most of the contributors on this forum are experienced photographers and have had the time and opportunity to learn about our likes and dislikes and to learn photography. But, we are a minority! Most of the folks buying DSLR's these days are graduating from P&S models. They have no carry over gear and little real photographic knowledge. For them any DSLR is a big step up in what they need to learn. I think a lot of those cameras will end up on a closet shelf or stuck in a drawer after a couple of years, and they'll go back to their P&S cameras. Kind of what happened in the 70's with film SLR's. The Sony A-100 is a cut above what they need. The Olympus E-410 or E500 is closer and so is the D40 and D40X. The Pentax K100D and K110D are in that group and so was the Canon Digital Rebel. I really see the A-100 as closer to the Canon XTi and Nikon D80 and maybe the Olympus E-510.

Intersting thread, I just wish it wasn't so rancorous.
-
Jerry
 
My point was that no one is happy with the status quo.
 
No IS?
Price is actually going to intro higher than the current Alpha price?

Anyways, I still think the Alpha has bested Canon and Nikon in the price range, even tho they have made several announcements I STILL wouldn't buy Canon or Nikon if I was shopping right now. Sony has the best deal going, in my little ol' opinion. I still feel like I have a one up over Canon and Nikon save for maybe a couple of lens choices but that is soon gonna change.

Carl
--

'Ask not what your photo equipment can do for you, but what you can do with your photo equipment'
 
I never saw anything in the posts to deserve the tirade that followed. This is totally unnecessary and very demeaning to this forum. I also don't understand this hatred for Minolta that keeps coming out. Sony is Minolta evolved. The Alpha is very similar to my 5D and would be a good replacement if my 5D died. Many of us would like to see further Sony releases, or at least announcements, to reassure us of continuation of the line. I see nothing wrong with that--it is a reasonable desire.

If I were a Nikon person, I would not be comfortable with the current trand at Nikon towards incompatibility with the older lenses--I've already been there when Minolta went to auto focus. I feel the Sony alpha is a much better camera than the new Nikon for about the same price. Sony needs to hit this comparison hard in their advertising. The only real downside to Sony are the high lens prices and poor availability at the present time--and uncertainty of the future--especially for advanced photographers.
Discussing these is not "flaming" Sony--it is a reasonable topic for this forum.
 
my original post was not, let me repeat, was not a bash or meant to be a negative comment about Sony or the A100.

My post should have been translated as this:

Seems like we can never make any head way for the high end market. I know, promises, promises.

This simply meant that as long as Sony lived by what they have said about the market they are after, we who are looking for a pro product FROM SONY would probably have to wait while they compete in the other areas.

With the announcement of the D40x, I also simply meant that Sony would probably counter with some competition at that level.

Regarding my comment about Sony being in the Middle and lower end this statement meant:

middle = A100 level camera which many are very happy with

lower end = point and shoot.

My comment about the D40x looking nice, simply meant for Nikonians looking to move from P&S to DSLR, not that it was better than A100.

That is all, thats all Don Northrup or whatever name you are using. Your interpretation of my post and of me is entirely wrong.

Peace!

--
Thanks,

Digitalshooter!

Member of the 7D and Beercan Cult! Looking for a muffler for my 7D!

The light at the end of the tunnel is becoming clearer and its calling me to the darkside!
 
Sometimes, I wonder if KM/Sony owners really

understand how good what they have got IS compared to the other side of the hill.
David
Yes, but if the noise is indeed that ridiculously low on the Dx40 as first reports suggest, than any IS advantage has already evaporated.
 

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