D60 - Who cares ?!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jack A. Zucker
  • Start date Start date
If somebody posts a shot for review, about the best I can usually offer is "yes, I like it", or "no, I don't like it".

If there are TECHNICAL problems with the image, and I happen to recognize the problem and think it's significant, then I'm likely to comment.

But I tend to stay away from comments like "that shot doesn't do it for me" unless I can think of how I would've done it differently. And a lot of times I haven't a clue as to how I would've done it differently -- other than just not taking the shot.

Some images "speak" to me, others don't. And I don't see any reason to inform a photographer that the image doesn't appeal to me. After all, there may be lots of people to whom it is appealing.
I think part of the problem is, as was pointed out in the first
message of this thread, many of the folks here are more into

equipment than they are good photography. --The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
 
I have always thought it was a bit backwards that a pro "needs" and
"pro" cameras get better autofocus systems. You would think a pro
would be able to manually focus by touch where an amatuer would
need to most help with focus.

I know of course that Pro's have their livelyhood on the line and
can be shooting tougher to catch subjects.

I'm shooting basketball at ISO1600 at F1.8 at 1/250th. I
definitely would like a better autofocus system. For most uses the
D30 AF is fine, but indoor sports could really use a better AF
system.

Karl
The D30 is not well-designed for manual focus.

manual focus.
 
My local camera dealer told me to always stay out in the bright sun, point away from it, use the f/16+sunny rule, shoot only static subjects, get the eypiece magnifier and a stable tripod, and I'd NEVER have problems with metering or AF. Ever. ;)
Well, my mother always told me to stay out of dimly lit bars. ;-)
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
 
1 of 3 in focus is not good at all. Have you tried any tests to make sure your camera is focusing properly?
Please excuse the rant!

I shot a basketball game yesterday (about 140 shots) and one out of
three were in focus. Last weekend I shot a gymnastic meet with
about the same results. I was using a 100mm F2 lens with shutter
speeds of around 1/200. I had CF2 set to 3.

I bought the D30 on the first wave, and did not have a lot of user
input. I knew from the reviews that it did not have a first rate
auto focus, but I assumed two things (the auto focus would be on
par with my Ellan IIe) (and that you would be able to manually
focus the camera). I was wrong on both counts.

I would love to have a 1D but I think that an extra $2000 is too
much to spend for a focus system that works. For $3000 you should
get a focus system that works and I will never forgive Canon for
this shortcoming.
I know about Canon’s arrangement with Kodak, but having a focus
system that works does not make a camera a professional model. It
makes a camera that is usable!

Regards,
Greg
--Valliesto
 
The IS systems works only for camera motion ("shake"). There is a pair of gyroscopes in the lens barrel, that detect horizontal and vertical motion. This information is then fed to a deformable optical prism (it is filled with some sort of optical fluid). The prism bends the incoming light to counter-act the moving of the image on the sensor/film plane.

The IS system works very well, but there is no way it could compensate for subject motion. The only compensation for subject motion is a high shutter speed (or a hammer and some nails ^ ^). What IS will allow you to do is hand hold a telephoto lens and still get reasonably sharp pictures. Which makes it great on lenses like the 100-400 L and the 300mm 4.0 L. As these are excellent for wildlife, hiking or other places where you would want a tele but can't or don't want a mono/tripod.
I don't have an IS lens, I would be interested to hear how IS and
non-IS compares. How does it work anyway ? Does it compensate for
camera shake regardless of the subject; or compensate for motion of
the subject ?
I'm with you most of the way, but I don't think you would have had
a DoF problem no matter what you did. The jets had to be near to
or beyond the Hyperfocal distance (about 1000 Feet with a D30 at
135mm at F5.6) so the DoF would have been huge even wide open.
Bob wrote:
--Valliesto
 
I have a Sony 707 - which is a pretty good digital camera - but just can't hold a candle to my 35mm SLR gear for taking pictures of my three young kids in motion - especially indoors with flash.

I had seriously considered the D30 - but its not fast enough with a moderately priced zoom - so I am waiting to see what Nikon and Canon may cook up in the near future. Maybe its the D60.

Catching children in motion is much like Journalistic and sports photography - and requires fast reflexes and an even faster camera.
 
Try sitting in a dimly lit bar (ISO 1600, f/1.4, 1/30 sec) and
trying to AF on a performer.
David, what kind of pictures are you getting at f1.4?

I've done a bunch of stage photography (for fun), but I've never used that wide an aperture. Do you even have your subject's whole face in focus?

Maybe I'll bring my 50/1.4 with me next time to try it out.

I'd love to see a sample if you don't mind sharing one.

Thanks,- Mike
 
Click on the link in my signature to get to my website.

Scroll way down to the bottom of the left-hand side, where you'll see the pictures from Douglas Corner Cafe on June 11/12, 2001. These were all shot at ISO 1600, f/1.4 (perhaps f/1.2 when I used the 85/1.2, but I think they were actually at f/1.4)

Right under that set are some pictures from Tin Pan South 2001. All of the ones that were shot at Douglas Corner Cafe (you should be familiar with that venue from the above shots) were also shot at ISO 1600, f/1.4

Nope, I'd say it's darned near impossible to keep the entire face in focus under those conditions - depending, of course, on just how closely one can frame the face.
David, what kind of pictures are you getting at f1.4?
I've done a bunch of stage photography (for fun), but I've never
used that wide an aperture. Do you even have your subject's whole
face in focus?

Maybe I'll bring my 50/1.4 with me next time to try it out.

I'd love to see a sample if you don't mind sharing one.
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
 
Unfortunately - lugability is also very important. This is why the D1X or EOS1D were not a consideration for me. There's also the weight of the glass.

IF we adopted an APS size as a standard - we could downsize and down price all that heavy glass. My wife loves to use the Nikon 6xi APS which has fast and accurate focus (N80 electronics). I batch scan the APS.
Catching children in motion is much like Journalistic and sports
photography - and requires fast reflexes and an even faster camera.
like the EOS 1D......
 
"Catching children in motion is much like Journalistic and sports
photography - and requires fast reflexes and an even faster camera."
I saw the 18 year old snow boarder from Vermont, USA catch a gold at Salt Lake last week. Her dad had a EOS strap around his neck but I couldn't see which camera.

So anyway when I get me some kids I'll be sure to use that line on the missus. he he he
 
I think that excuse will only work if your Kid is in the Olympics.
 
David, Please excuse my ignorance, what is the f/16+sunny rule?
Scroll way down to the bottom of the left-hand side, where you'll
see the pictures from Douglas Corner Cafe on June 11/12, 2001.
These were all shot at ISO 1600, f/1.4 (perhaps f/1.2 when I used
the 85/1.2, but I think they were actually at f/1.4)

Right under that set are some pictures from Tin Pan South 2001.
All of the ones that were shot at Douglas Corner Cafe (you should
be familiar with that venue from the above shots) were also shot at
ISO 1600, f/1.4

Nope, I'd say it's darned near impossible to keep the entire face
in focus under those conditions - depending, of course, on just how
closely one can frame the face.
David, what kind of pictures are you getting at f1.4?
I've done a bunch of stage photography (for fun), but I've never
used that wide an aperture. Do you even have your subject's whole
face in focus?

Maybe I'll bring my 50/1.4 with me next time to try it out.

I'd love to see a sample if you don't mind sharing one.
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
--Canon, EOS5, D30, 35-350L, 70-200L f2.8, 28-135 IS.Bottom posters Rock...
 
Not so relectant to share my work and accept comments and
criticisms, I remain,

Dr. Y. Chachad
http://www.pbase.com/chachads
OK, Dr Y,

I see the truth as a group of ever growing enthusiasts that enjoy the right to enjoy new toys in an ever growing toy market. I have no problem with them or their snapshots of family and zoo amimals and the ten millionith flower picture.

Photography is as much about cameras and lenses as it is about composition and pompousness.

--Dave Lewis
 
You're right, Glenn: I've been surprised to learn that family shots can push the envelope.

I went from an EOS3 with L glass (PHENOMENAL combination!) and a Canoscan FS 2710 to the D30, and for the first few months never looked back: the convenience of the D30 was tremendous, and the image quality (tight, generally outdoor head shots of our children) was absolutely staggering up to and including 13 x 19" on an Epson 1270 (the 100mm 2.8 macro non-L, BTW, is INCREDIBLE). I also began to see the limitations of the film/scanner combo, as I actually saw how the scanner couldn't capture shadow detail that was clearly visible on the slides themselves.

On the flip side, it was when I started shooting ballet recitals that I began to bump into the limitations of the D30 that others have posted about. You pros have to forgive us amateurs: many of us may assume (as I did) that we just won't push the envelope the way you pros do, so would tend to ignore things like auto-focus speed because -- HEY, WE'RE ONLY AMATEURS!

Anyway -- under ballet conditions, I've come up against lots of hunting AND shutter lag when using the 70 - 200 2.8/L (SUPERB range for ballet!); it was enough to miss too many otherwise great shots. I have to say I've tried manual pre-focusing, and this hasn't been bad (though I generally have to shoot wide open, so have a fairly shallow depth of field), but it doesn't help the shutter lag.

So the 1D is very interesting to me, insofar as it's everything the D30 is and more. I have to write that the other thing I've seen is the limitation imposed by the 1.6x multiplier factor: it turns my favorite lens, the 28-70 2.8/L into a mismatch (again, a staggering combination with the EOS3, especially when traveling and looking for relatively light carry). The 17-35L doesn't really solve the problem.

So like others, I'd love to see the speed of the 1D with a 1.0 lens multiplier and 6mp, because the last limitation of the D30 is when you take group shots or landscapes and want to create large prints, the small details count. I'd thought about going to the Contax 645 and the Nikon 8000, but it's just not convenient enough...and the Contax N digital still seems to be smoke and doesn't have the same variety of lenses...and, well, my L lenses are just superb. Better to wait, I think, for the Canon D-SLR bodies (which, as someone else recently posted, begin to make more sense thought of as backs for the lenses) to reach the point where we'd like them to be...

Bottom line? 1D, mythical D60, Contax N or whatever...I've got more MOUNTED photographs with the D30 than with the EOS3 (isn't output the acid test?). I'm just so encouraged by the convenience of digital that I'm shooting more, getting better, and this in turn fuels a higher ambition level for the images I can create...

I wonder about an Epson 7500...
 
So, I am very happy for now. I figure the D30 will be good for a
couple of years until the technology drastically changes.

Allan
Where does fun figure in there. Read some of the other forums and you see a bunch of that coming through. Why does there seem to have to be some kind of accountability beyond fun with the D30 or the D1 or the 1D or whatever other "pro" camera. Only a small percentage of us are artists the rest just enjoy the whole thing. Where is the crime in all that.

Don't forget that it is the cash flow generated by "amateur" Canon equipment that fuels the R&D of the Pro department. Whose hands would you like to chew on today.--Dave Lewis
 
As a photo retailer i see this all the time, and 99% of the time with the male photographers. I work in a store that does half a million daily in sales, so let me share a simple observation with you.

Men spend the most money in the highest end toys, but dont have good results.

Women spend an average or low amount of money on equipment they need, and have splendid results.

I'm not joshing you either. Yes it'll be nice to have a 6mp digital body, but do you need it?

yes there are faster autofocus systems, but do you need it? please keep in mind that with USM lenses 2.8 or faster the d30 out focuses an F100 unless the ligh level drops below 3 lux. i've used them and i stand by that assessment.

should you spend $3k every year on the latest greatest toy, or should you spend that money on a few good lenses, books, classes and travel to nice places/events/whatever and LEARN photography?

I just bought a D30 because the price is right. I had budgeted $4k on a camera purchase this year. I could either wait for the 6mp cameras to be readily available to joe consumer end of summer and blow most of that money on it, or i could as i just did spend it all and get a d30, grip, 70-200 2.8l, 28-70 2.8l, lowepro 650 case, 4 128mb cards and 6 batteries?

mmmmm.....

oh i shoot weddings, sports and portraits. the first one i get paid for on occaison.
 
Hmmm, I posted about that in another thread . . . not sure how you're question ended up HERE.

Anyway, here's the exposure rule:

On a bright, sunny day, proper exposure is:

Aperture = f/16

Shutter speed = 1 / ISO speed

So, if ISO = 100, then aperture would be f/16 and shutter speed = 1/100 for proper exposure.

Of course, you can also use the equivalent of f/8 and 1/400, or any other combo that gives the same amount of exposure.
David, Please excuse my ignorance, what is the f/16+sunny rule?
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
 
David,

Even though it was asked in the wrong thread you still replied, much appreciated, I hadn't seen that little gem before.

Thanks
Anyway, here's the exposure rule:

On a bright, sunny day, proper exposure is:

Aperture = f/16

Shutter speed = 1 / ISO speed

So, if ISO = 100, then aperture would be f/16 and shutter speed =
1/100 for proper exposure.

Of course, you can also use the equivalent of f/8 and 1/400, or any
other combo that gives the same amount of exposure.
David, Please excuse my ignorance, what is the f/16+sunny rule?
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
--Canon, EOS5, D30, 35-350L, 70-200L f2.8, 28-135 IS.Bottom posters Rock...
 

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