D60 - Who cares ?!?

Greg,

You would sell your whole kit, because of a issue known before you purchased the D30? The D60 may help some in that area, but I would suggest you wait until it has be seriously reviewed both by users and reviewers like Mr. Askey. If you want to do low light sports then I would suggest you seriously look in to the 1D as that is the only Canon currently know to be able to do that task well. There are some issues with the 1D as well so read up before you spend your money.

If you decide to dump your kit for a reasonable price, drop me a note I might take some of it off of your hands.

Greg R said:

I Care!!!!

I care because Canon sucked me into buying a $ 3000 camera with a
pitiful auto focus. I have a fortune in glass, including some fast
primes. I would like to be able to shoot low light sports. It is
most difficult to do this with the D-30’s cheap auto focus. Canon
has said that you can not trust your eyes to manually focus the
D-30, and I have found this to be correct. I am going to give
Canon one more chance to give me a camera that you can auto focus,
and manual focus with replaceable viewfinder screens. If they
can’t or won’t do this then I will sell the whole kit and start
over with someone that can.

Regards,
Greg

Click to expand...

--Valliesto

Yatin Chachad said:

CSLR forum consists of egocentric men with deep pockets
and lighters to start flame wars.

Click to expand...

Do I detect a comment from the fairer sex here?



David

Please excuse the rant!

I shot a basketball game yesterday (about 140 shots) and one out of three were in focus. Last weekend I shot a gymnastic meet with about the same results. I was using a 100mm F2 lens with shutter speeds of around 1/200. I had CF2 set to 3.

I bought the D30 on the first wave, and did not have a lot of user input. I knew from the reviews that it did not have a first rate auto focus, but I assumed two things (the auto focus would be on par with my Ellan IIe) (and that you would be able to manually focus the camera). I was wrong on both counts.

I would love to have a 1D but I think that an extra $2000 is too much to spend for a focus system that works. For $3000 you should get a focus system that works and I will never forgive Canon for this shortcoming.

I know about Canon’s arrangement with Kodak, but having a focus system that works does not make a camera a professional model. It makes a camera that is usable!

Regards,
Greg

Greg R said:

Please excuse the rant!

I shot a basketball game yesterday (about 140 shots) and one out of
three were in focus. Last weekend I shot a gymnastic meet with
about the same results. I was using a 100mm F2 lens with shutter
speeds of around 1/200. I had CF2 set to 3.

I bought the D30 on the first wave, and did not have a lot of user
input. I knew from the reviews that it did not have a first rate
auto focus, but I assumed two things (the auto focus would be on
par with my Ellan IIe) (and that you would be able to manually
focus the camera). I was wrong on both counts.

I would love to have a 1D but I think that an extra $2000 is too
much to spend for a focus system that works. For $3000 you should
get a focus system that works and I will never forgive Canon for
this shortcoming.
I know about Canon’s arrangement with Kodak, but having a focus
system that works does not make a camera a professional model. It
makes a camera that is usable!

Regards,
Greg

Click to expand...

If you got only one out of three in focus, believe me it wasn't the camera's fault. Also, a shutter speed of 200 is far to slow to stop the action anyway.
--Steve Mitchellwww.boxcarstudios.com

Greg R said:

I know about Canon’s arrangement with Kodak...

Click to expand...

Well, I guess that makes three of you (Canon and Kodak being the other two!).

JCDoss

The guitarist at the local opry will be leaving next week (after 6 years). His wife also sang last night, there.

So, next week, I'll be giving them framed 8x10's of these two shots I took last night:





Time to spread a little more joy.

Oh, the owner LOVED the 5x7's of her grandson. So much, that she gave me four free tickets to the opry. And now the boy's mom/dad want copies, too.

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net

Nice Shots.....gotta love a tele player.--Steve Mitchellwww.boxcarstudios.com

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think critiquing a photo is the same thing as insulting it. Certainly, there's no need for posts like "your photo was so bad I rebooted my computer and cleaned out my disk cache." If a photo has some shortcomings, though, there's no problem with pointing them out. I've taught cartooning classes and amature photography workshops, and there is a definite art to talking to someone about how to improve their work.

The first thing I do is look for the good in the image. I point out those things which work, and then discuss the things which could improve the work. I always try to do this from the perspective of what the student was trying to do, and then point out some ways to expand their horizons.

Some people become defensive, because we all have a tendency to look at our works as "our babies". But posts saying "Wow that's a great photo" or nothing at all give us no real feedback to improve our work. BTW, if a critique starts becoming like the Monty Python parrot skit, I just back off. If the only reason someone is posting is so people will say "What a beeyoootiful picture!!!!", they really aren't interested in improving their work.

Take care,

Buchan-Grant said:

But the lowest of the low are those who criticise others work and
do not put up their own for viewing, fortunately there is not too
much of that on ths forum. If you want some of that action, try
Photonet!
If someone has some great shots, then we should say so but if
someone has poor photos I don't see any point in criticising
him/her specifically, the absense of praise would be deafening
enough! Were all trying to take better pictures here even the
wallies with more cash than sense!

Click to expand...

Check out this post, http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=2220395

While the D30 doesn't have the best autofocus in the world, a lot of people are getting a lot of good shots using it.

You've got a terrific camera, and you CAN take some terrific photos with it. I'd like to see some of your work.

BTW, my first photos of indoor basketball sucked seriously. I've moved to taking outdoor shots of touch football games until I can get a faster lense and work indoors with the lower lighting. It's given me some good practice in following action, particularly since the field isn't as crowded as basketball, and afternoon light is wonderful.
Here are a couple of them:





My first sports shots, so be gentle in criticism. I cry easily. BTW, those are guys I'm training to be firefighters. Got a couple of hosses in this class.

Greg R said:

I bought the D30 on the first wave, and did not have a lot of user
input. I knew from the reviews that it did not have a first rate
auto focus, but I assumed two things (the auto focus would be on
par with my Ellan IIe) (and that you would be able to manually
focus the camera). I was wrong on both counts.

Click to expand...

I can manually focus my D30. The angle finder C makes it easier, but I can still focus it without the finder.

Greg R said:

I would love to have a 1D but I think that an extra $2000 is too
much to spend for a focus system that works. For $3000 you should
get a focus system that works and I will never forgive Canon for
this shortcoming.

Click to expand...

Well for indoor sports I would think you would want the best AF system Canon offered, the one used in both the 1V and 3.

Greg R said:

I know about Canon’s arrangement with Kodak, but having a focus
system that works does not make a camera a professional model. It
makes a camera that is usable!

Click to expand...

What arrangement?

Jack - Why will people buy a camera for 3or4 more FPS?

If you build it, they will come.

FYI -A 2.1MP Image prints to 8x10 fine on an epson. Yes, 1600x1200 prints to 8x10, people.

Chris Michael said:

I've read several times about buying refurbished D30 units...
I would appreciate any information that you could share regarding
how to buy D30 refurbished cameras.

Click to expand...

Sorry about the late reply. I was able to find a refurbished D30 at Canoga Cameras (web site: canogacameras.com). I don't know if they have any left, however.

Ahto Tanner said:

Now I understand what people are talking when complaining about
D30's slow AF.

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I'm not oppressed by it yet . I'm still too impressed by how much faster it is than anything I used in the past (meaning, when there weren't any decent auto-focusing cameras.

Member said:

But about the thread's main topic, I'll most probably pass D60
since need to justify my D30 first!

Click to expand...

I'll pass on it if because it's likely going to cost more than I'd care to spend just now. (A completely worthless excuse, I know.)

Jack A. Zucker said:

I've kept quiet this long but I'm going to say something now. Not
that I'm any great photographer or anything but...

I can't help but notice that the majority of examples of D30 photos
I see in this forum are snapshots.

Click to expand...

Why should people, who might not be perfect photographers (who is perfect and who defines what is perfect???), why should they not be allowed to optimize their equipment? It might not help to improve composition, but it also will not hurt. Whats wrong about it? And - why would someone enter a Canon SLR forum (the name points out its equipment related, otherwise it was called: learning composition or s.th like this) if he/she wouldnt like to talk about equipment?

Image quality might not hold uz back, but better technology will of course not hold us back from taking good photographs.?!.

I wonder how many of you folks

Member said:

have maxed out the existing technology before jumping onto a new
equipment bandwagon. Somehow I don't think many of us have reached
the point where the image quality is holding us back.

Of course there are some pros here and folks who need the better
autofocus but I'm guessing the vast majority of folks are still
struggling with exposure and composition...

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get flamed but that's my $0.02

Jaz
--
http://www.jackzucker.com

Click to expand...

--RegardsTom

Yatin Chachad said:

Most people on the Canon SLR Forum have ho-hum, or mediocre
photographic capability at best. Not all. Most do not even share
their photographs, and get easily offended when their work is
criticised. Others do not even have the guts to say anything about
a simply BAD photo. All everyone is interested in is their
equipment. CSLR forum consists of egocentric men with deep pockets
and lighters to start flame wars.
Not so relectant to share my work and accept comments and
criticisms, I remain,

Dr. Y. Chachad
http://www.pbase.com/chachads

Click to expand...

Not afraid to criticize. Your photos are "painfully" over saturated, in my opinion. Do you boost the saturation in post processing?

Dr. C. Brent

Hi Jack,

I think the biggest point of speculation on the D60 is probably for those wishing to jump into the digital SLR world at this point. I've been shooting digital for some time now but mostly with lower end "consumer" cameras like the Coolpix 880. While I love the quality of the pictures, I miss not being able to look through a proper viewfinder with a good lens out in front...

The issue for me personally is that if I'm going to drop somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 - 2,500 for a new/almost-new body, I'd want to know what the next release will offer before committing that to "old" technology, regardless if I'm a pro or not.

Anyway, I'm bidding on a D30 body right now on Yahoo Japan auctions so wish me luck...

For what it's worth:

http://www.lumine.net/

Cheers.

Jack A. Zucker said:

I've kept quiet this long but I'm going to say something now. Not
that I'm any great photographer or anything but...

I can't help but notice that the majority of examples of D30 photos
I see in this forum are snapshots. I wonder how many of you folks
have maxed out the existing technology before jumping onto a new
equipment bandwagon. Somehow I don't think many of us have reached
the point where the image quality is holding us back.

Click to expand...

BLAMMO ! You hit it right on the head, Mike. I was also expecting poor autofocus when I got my D30... I'm still looking for the mythical poor autofocus to manifest itself! Granted, the D30 is not a superstar for KEEPING a rapidly moving object in focus, but the autofocus has never failed to perform flawlessly.

Steve

MikeA said:

Well, I did think about flaming you, but I couldn't figure out what
to flame you for . Sorry.

Speaking as a former professional photographer, let me opine that
-- strange as it might seem -- even the pros occasionally struggle
with exposure and composition.

After reading about the D30 in this (mostly very useful) forum for
months, I finally snagged one of the remaining refurbished units. I
had been expecting lousy autofocus -- to judge by some of the
complaints here -- and had assumed I'd be focusing manually most of
the time. Well, uh, NO. People who are accustomed to the much
bigger-ticket Canon cameras might have reason to be concerned that
the D30 must sometimes "hunt," but when I'd worked with the thing
for only a few moments, I found myself wondering: "What the HELL
are these folks complaining about?"

Of course it hunts -- if you "feed" it a low-contrast subject. Even
if the better/more expensive systems "hunt" less, they're still not
going to get it right every time. Anyway, recalling the days when a
professional wouldn't be caught dead with an auto-focus camera --
because they did such a lousy job much of the time -- I'm struck by
how fortunate I am to possess an example of this "inferior"
focusing technology. (LOL!)

The photographer who encouraged me to go for the D30 while there
were still some of them available, heard my anti-rant about the
auto-focusing, and then heard me wondering aloud why everyone's so
irritated by the D30's auto-focus, replied: "Told you so."

Click to expand...

Bob said:

In the shot below - which won Third Place in the International
Council of Airshows Annual Photo Contest this past year - I used a
Canon D30 with the 28-135 mm IS lens (not an L type). How did the
IS help? I was able to shoot a a lower shutter speed and therefore
get better depth of field and hence get better definition in the
smoke.

Click to expand...

Not a bad photo, and the contest result speaks for itself. However, I tend to agree with the others here that DOF is not an issue at those subject distances. For future reference, you may want to consider shooting at a more moderate aperture to maximize lens performance, and a higher shutter speed to better capture the fast moving jets. I doubt that the IS contributed anything to stopping the action.

Steve

Brian Hansen said:

...but when the person is asking for critiques and suggestions on
how to improve they should get it - or they will never learn.

I can understand people not wanting to comment or criticise
that aren't pros or even serious amateurs, but there are a lot
of good photographers that read and post here that could
give some suggestions on how to improve a photo. That is
all I ask.

Click to expand...

Hi Brian,

I think part of the problem is, as was pointed out in the first message of this thread, many of the folks here are more into equipment than they are good photography. Before someone flames me for that statement... just really look at the titles of most of the threads and you'll see that to be true. To summarize, to ask for critiques may be more along the lines of asking the blind to lead the blind.

Ok, that sounds harsh, but I really didn't mean it to be so. Most of the folks here are admittedly still learning... so critiques are more likely to be expressions of opinion than they are honest and knowledgable constructive criticisms.

Think of it to be like cooking. The worst thing a cook can do is to ask another cook how they can improve their recipe.... Every cook has his/her own preferred way of doing things. What really matters is what the person eating the meal thinks, whether that person knows anything about cooking or not!

If I can stretch that lame analogy further ... Imagine a group of cooks getting together to discuss recipes... and they all focus on subjects like, "Ya know, If I only had a better set of saucepans my food would taste a whole lot better..." Well, you get the idea.

I'd suggest that you spend most of your time critiquing yourself, using as a guidline the work of other photographers whom you admire and respect. Get some good photography books from the library, or go to some exhibits... find some images that really speak to you and then go out and try to capture something similar. Compare what you've done to your "standard" and you should be able to see what needs improvement, be it composition, exposure, focus, etc. In the process of this you should start to develop your own unique style, as well.

Steve

Try sitting in a dimly lit bar (ISO 1600, f/1.4, 1/30 sec) and trying to AF on a performer.

It can be done, but it ain't easy.

SteveB Ohio said:

BLAMMO ! You hit it right on the head, Mike. I was also
expecting poor autofocus when I got my D30... I'm still looking
for the mythical poor autofocus to manifest itself! Granted, the
D30 is not a superstar for KEEPING a rapidly moving object in
focus, but the autofocus has never failed to perform flawlessly.

Click to expand...

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net