Noisewise, F40 seems better at ISO1600 but F31 seems better at ISO800. PF is much tamed on F40 at every ISO level. It seems worth waiting for.
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I held F40!
- Thread starter tjdean01
- Start date
terriphoto
Active member
Can you tell me the difference in price between the F40 and the F20? I'm thinking of getting the F40 maybe because of the SD card capability. I'm waiting to see the price difference, because I already own quite a few SD cards.
morey000
Senior Member
It appears that the noise characterstics of the camera on the right (the F31?) has a fine, nicer looking grain.
Also- neither of the images I'm looking at are full size- so we don't really know what has been lost in resizing. The two appear to be posted at the same size - so any increased in resolution offered by the F40 isn't shown here. Or- if it is- there isn't any difference.
It appears, although this is certainly preliminary, that the F30/F31 may be an irreproducible pinnacle.
(kinda' like my favorite KM A2)
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Also- neither of the images I'm looking at are full size- so we don't really know what has been lost in resizing. The two appear to be posted at the same size - so any increased in resolution offered by the F40 isn't shown here. Or- if it is- there isn't any difference.
It appears, although this is certainly preliminary, that the F30/F31 may be an irreproducible pinnacle.
(kinda' like my favorite KM A2)
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jinhamasaki
Forum Enthusiast
The right side is the F31, that's what the kanji says 
.
Google Translate agrees.
.Google Translate agrees.
tjdean01
Senior Member
I'll give you my guess and show you how I got to that guess. The F20 is not available in Japan, but the other 3 are. I searched the "Pricegrabber" of Japan, and I got this:
F30: US $200 http://kakaku.com/item/00500810985/
F31: US $215 http://kakaku.com/item/00500811073/
F40: US $300 http://kakaku.com/item/00500811097/
I'm surprised that the F30 and F31 are going so cheap in Japan. HOWEVER, there are different factors. In the US, people know the F30 is good, and people are still buying it. So, the price is still high. In Japan, though, when something gets old and the new model with more MPs comes out, the old stuff goes cheap because no one wants it any more (hence my brand new Canon Pro1 for $600 and sd20 for $200 [beat all current Canon's in IQ).
The F40 is a "beginner" camera like the F20, but A) its big brother isn't out yet and B) in Japan, only the newness, smallness, and MP matter. So, that $300 price you're seeing is probably high. I'd imagine it would be $250 in the US, but since it's new, has more MP than the F30/F31, and the F50 hasn't come out yet, I'm going to say it's going to be about the same price as the F30/31. It'll drop to $250 in a few months, though, and when the F31 replacement comes out, if it's 8 MP, the F41fd will be $200. ( http://www.17photo.com/product.asp?id=15746166&l=Pricegrabber )
In the US the F20 is cheap because it's a beginner's camera and the more advanced photographers get the F30 and F31, I'm guessing. The F20 IS a steal at $150 though. Too bad they don't have it in Japan for me to get my hands on, but if anyone knows, can you compare the F20 and the F30/F31 ergonomics, please?)
ericN2
Forum Pro
I think all round the world is likely to show various prices ranges and differences as prices (even using exchange considerations) always seem different. In UK the F40 is just about beginning to be shown as an available soon item and suggested prices. It seems pretty sure that against ther VERY low sell-off prices here now on the F20 , the F40 is going to be about 80% more than you can right now buy the F20 for , so each one will have to decide the worth of that extra. I'd not choose , myself, just because of SD cards. Nice to have , but card cost is really quite small against camera price and the biggest xD cards are often quite enough for most users. FD does nothing for me either .. so personally I see no big change.
DON'T be put off too much by what is said above that the F20/F40 are 'beginners' cameras. They certainly are not. In most cases , 'A' on a compact of this type is useless as DOF just cannot be controlled - and the Programming mode on the F20/F40 more than makes up for any loss of a Dial. The quality of the F20/F40 is indeed in the setting-up of them ..as cameras, if setup to best advantage they are a highly good camera .. NOT a simple P&S type where you are just stuck with AUTO mode., THAT is the difference - using the Program to best effect .. and then YOU make the picture, just as well as the other range.
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ericN-UK
You're right. Its a typo eror. I meant F30 has better pictures.
thank you.
terriphoto
Active member
Thanks, that helps a lot
tjdean01
Senior Member
Thanks for the reply. The F20, is half price of the F30, and the only thing you can't do is choose the shutter speed and aperture, right?
ericN2
Forum Pro
That is correct - but as said above .. and in fact agreed by a number of other contributors to this Forum , 'A' is of little real use as a means of trying to get any sort of DOF - a compact just isn't capable in that way - and whilst I would agree that Shutter setting is maybe some sort of personal thing in a lot of ways, I'ver so far , with hardly any exception, found that the 'intelligent' 'M' mode of the F20 has varied considerably according to pic setting, light etc .. and the shutter element has invariably been just right for me at least - I'd have no real arguments about it as to correctness .. and 'best' is often no more than a personal thought anyway. If you vary one thing, you've got to vary another - and the F20 'M' mode just seems to work nicely in so many different situations. It's RESULTS that matter , and I just cannot say other than that the camera has done it right, as far as I'm concerned..and again .. at present price it's a bloomin' wonder !!
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ericN-UK
tjdean01
Senior Member
You know, you're probably right. If I had a choice to get a F30 for $300 and an F20 for $150, the F20 would probably be my choice. I wouldn't use ISO 3200 anyway and I would sometimes, but wouldn't often use longer than a 4 second shutter speed.
However, when I buy a camera, unless if it's REALLY cheap, ANY feature that I like carries more weight than a $100 price difference. So, if it were F20 vs F30 I'd take the F20 (thanks to your post) and save some $$$. However, I was no longer considering the F30, I am now considering the F30! So, I'd get better metering in the sunlight, FD for fun, and maybe a few other tweaks. How much thinner is the F20? Is it even noticable?
(BTW, the F40 is of no interest to me)
MasterElwood
Member
I disagree. I think the better pictures from the right side are from the F30. Why?
1. The (better, more sharper) look from the right does not look like the F30.
2. The left side has a ISO 3200 Pic which the F40 NOT HAS!
So - i think the F40 is superior in low light.
BTW - i took 2 Pics with a F40 myself a few days ago (and the same shots with my F10), but the owner hasn´t mailed me the pics yet...
MasterElwood
1. The (better, more sharper) look from the right does not look like the F30.
2. The left side has a ISO 3200 Pic which the F40 NOT HAS!
So - i think the F40 is superior in low light.
BTW - i took 2 Pics with a F40 myself a few days ago (and the same shots with my F10), but the owner hasn´t mailed me the pics yet...
MasterElwood
morey000
Senior Member
it appears that we are all agreeing that the f30 is on the right side. The bottom ISo3200 image should really be over there on the right next to its title, rather than on the left.
F30 still wins... but remember- these are not full size images. We don't know what we are missing.
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F30 still wins... but remember- these are not full size images. We don't know what we are missing.
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morey000
Senior Member
you're right. I'm not sure that the semi-manual controls on the F30 offer that much over the f20.
If it had a manual focus lock and a histogram... that might sweeten the pot a bit.
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If it had a manual focus lock and a histogram... that might sweeten the pot a bit.
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ericN2
Forum Pro
Is that a typo ?? F30! (???) .. Do I assume correctly that you mean the F31fd ??. From what I read, it seems that to a small (maybe significant though) extent , the 31 has had just one or two niggles of the F30 cleared up , so in that case , quite apart from the 'fd' addition it seems maybe the better of the 30's choice.
The F20 is just very slightly different than the F30 in design .. the finger grip is a little different and of course there is no Dial on top , as the F30 has, although I can't say that makes an obvious difference. The width and height are so similar you'd not know. The thickness is just about 1mm less on the F20 - many would say that's no dfifferent , but for some obscure reason I think the F30 does just seem that weeny bit chunkier in hand. Imagination mostly , I'm sure , as you can't get away from the near identical measurements. The F40fd seems the only one that IS different. A pic on Forum just a little while ago clearly showed it as smaller than the early models .. not suire why or how it comes about .. or if the F31 in fact is any different - don't think so in that case.
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ericN-UK
B
Barry Fitzgerald
Guest
I just see more NR on the F40 myself.
I have no idea why fuji want more than 6mp which is tons enough for most users.
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MasterElwood
Member
That was a typo. I think the little noisier but much more detailed pics from the right are from the F40!I just see more NR on the F40 myself.
I have no idea why fuji want more than 6mp which is tons enough for
most users.
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Y?
The more granular look from the pics of the right side does not look like any pic i saw from the f30.
MasterElwood
jinhamasaki
Forum Enthusiast
1. The F40 doesn't have ISO 3200, the F31fd does, which is on the right side. Therefore the F31fd is on the right.
2. I took a year of Japanese. 左がF40fd means "Left is F40"
右がF31fdです = "Right is F31fd"
2. I took a year of Japanese. 左がF40fd means "Left is F40"
右がF31fdです = "Right is F31fd"
tjdean01
Senior Member
Yes, that was a typo. I was considering the F30 vs the F31fd and I wanted the F30 because it had more noise reduction, but the extras on the F31fd such as better metering are what sold it for me. Now, if they made an F21fd or something (little brother of the F31fd without the shutter/aperture priority modes) and if it were half the price, then I'd probably get it.
But, as it stands now, I'm liking the F31fd the best. I like the F40 because yeah, it is a bit smaller (it didn't really feel like it when I held it, though, it was too, I don't know, I didn't like the shape) and it can handle 2 sd cards at once. I don't really mind buying an XD card if I do get the F31fd, although I'll have to find an adapter for it for my PC. And, the zoom lever on the F40 is cool ONLY for playback mode as I hardly zoom taking photos.
I'm not buying now though because I want to see what comes out next from Fuji. It might not be until September. And, when it does come out, I think there's a big possibility that the camera will be 8 MP, which is bad. So, my guess is the F31fd is the last of its kind with no upgrade (in IQ terms).
BTW, I wish Fuji playback mode would work faster like Canon. Zooming and panning too slow! >
But, as it stands now, I'm liking the F31fd the best. I like the F40 because yeah, it is a bit smaller (it didn't really feel like it when I held it, though, it was too, I don't know, I didn't like the shape) and it can handle 2 sd cards at once. I don't really mind buying an XD card if I do get the F31fd, although I'll have to find an adapter for it for my PC. And, the zoom lever on the F40 is cool ONLY for playback mode as I hardly zoom taking photos.
I'm not buying now though because I want to see what comes out next from Fuji. It might not be until September. And, when it does come out, I think there's a big possibility that the camera will be 8 MP, which is bad. So, my guess is the F31fd is the last of its kind with no upgrade (in IQ terms).
BTW, I wish Fuji playback mode would work faster like Canon. Zooming and panning too slow! >
ericN2
Forum Pro
Well, well - your post has stirred up something (to me) that has turned out a bit of a revolution in thoughts. I tend to agree with you that of the recent so-called updates , the 31fd does seem very much the best of them - but up to now I've taken little notice for a mix of reasons - thinking of it being another that is still the big unknown - "when" - sort of thing. Aside for a moment - I agree again that I'm sure this particular range will see NO more of like type now .. it will almost surely be held in suspense til later in the year , then what will turn up will be anybody's guess .. although I'm sure they'll go to 8Meg as the scene is set a bit already.
But - prompted by your comments, I've just looked onsite at one of the old well-respected dealers in UK , as they are regular Fuji sellers. They NOW have the 31fd offered as actually IN STOCK - instant delivery - and at a price of 179 UKP. Now relate that to the fact that another National chain of catalog sellers in UK has just been selling off F20 stocks at £99.99 .. but just today put those back up to £150 .. and same shop is selling the F30 at £200 .. and the latter are now settling as a fairly general sort of price range for these 'original' F20/30's .. that £179 for the 31fd starts to look a VERY interesting price don't you think !! I've seen a handful of comments and I do think it highly likely that Fuji changed at least one or two little but fundamental things in the 31 that had been a bit of a cause for discontent on F30 exposures .. so in that case , is the 31 going to be one to remember ?? The general trend now with many big names in the field is to bring out a big-pixel cam with anything else that LOOKS good and attracts the buyers - but is rarely the quality in some ways of the originals. Food for further thought , without a doubt.
I'm very happy indeed with my F20 , as it's been such a gem in every way - but I'm a sucker for a real bargain , and that £179 is SO attractive... !!
PLEASE ... somebody put me off ........!!
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ericN-UK
But - prompted by your comments, I've just looked onsite at one of the old well-respected dealers in UK , as they are regular Fuji sellers. They NOW have the 31fd offered as actually IN STOCK - instant delivery - and at a price of 179 UKP. Now relate that to the fact that another National chain of catalog sellers in UK has just been selling off F20 stocks at £99.99 .. but just today put those back up to £150 .. and same shop is selling the F30 at £200 .. and the latter are now settling as a fairly general sort of price range for these 'original' F20/30's .. that £179 for the 31fd starts to look a VERY interesting price don't you think !! I've seen a handful of comments and I do think it highly likely that Fuji changed at least one or two little but fundamental things in the 31 that had been a bit of a cause for discontent on F30 exposures .. so in that case , is the 31 going to be one to remember ?? The general trend now with many big names in the field is to bring out a big-pixel cam with anything else that LOOKS good and attracts the buyers - but is rarely the quality in some ways of the originals. Food for further thought , without a doubt.
I'm very happy indeed with my F20 , as it's been such a gem in every way - but I'm a sucker for a real bargain , and that £179 is SO attractive... !!
PLEASE ... somebody put me off ........!!
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ericN-UK
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