JCMK
Well-known member
I have the same problem on my D70 and D200 but the lens is working fine on my son's D50.
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17-55mm infinity focus problem...
- Thread starter John_of_LA
- Start date
Some people just seem to need to prove that they are right. My point is this: if there is practically no autofocus target on which a lens works, then the autofocus is useless.
Also your discussion of print size and depth of fields is irrelavent. If a lens focuses correctly, it should not just focus within the depth of field. And of course, depth of field is just a relavtive term related to the size of the final print, the viewing distance, and the eyesight of the person viewing the image.
Your implied statement is that autofocus within specification is is based on being within the depth of field for a certain size print. Is that an official statement form Nikon? If that is correct, the autofocus on my 17-55 mm lens propbably is within specs. Unfortunately, I expect better.
John_of_LA
Senior Member
Got another one to try. Used also.
2 17-55s..
2 bodies (D70 + D70s)
Same result...
2 17-55s..
2 bodies (D70 + D70s)
Same result...
21farms
Forum Enthusiast
my new 17-55DX had the exact same problem on my new D200. send the lens back to nikon and have them calibrate it. i got mine back in 12 days from the time i sent it and it works perfectly now.
John_of_LA
Senior Member
Did you look at your service note? What did they do? General adjustment?
John_of_LA
Senior Member
If out of warranty? For the lens & body...
21farms
Forum Enthusiast
okay, i just pulled out my paperwork...it says:
B2
Service Repair Rank B2
ADJ INFINITY FOCUS
CKD RESOLUTION TEST
CKD FOCUSING MECHANISM
CKD ZOOMING MECHANISM
CKD AUTO FOCUS OPERATION
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
there was no charge as it was only one month into a 5-year warranty...the only expense i incurred was shipping it to them.
B2
Service Repair Rank B2
ADJ INFINITY FOCUS
CKD RESOLUTION TEST
CKD FOCUSING MECHANISM
CKD ZOOMING MECHANISM
CKD AUTO FOCUS OPERATION
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
there was no charge as it was only one month into a 5-year warranty...the only expense i incurred was shipping it to them.
Kaj E
Forum Pro
I have read several threads on problems with the 17-55 on a D70. Seems like a typical D70 related problem. If your second lens is bought new under warranty, I think Nikon should fix the problem for free (regardless of whether they have to fix the lens or camera or both) because it seems to be a fairly typical problem based on the posts here. Talk nicely with Nikon service.
It does not make much sense to buy used lenses to get a "good deal" if you cannot use them on your camera.
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Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member
It does not make much sense to buy used lenses to get a "good deal" if you cannot use them on your camera.
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Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member
Adam Cotterill
Active member
Leonard,
Well here we are again. The world isn't flat, Elvis is dead and yes, despite your conviction to the contrary, there is a problem with DX lenses.
Answer these questions:
1. Why did my 17-35, 20 and 18-70 Nikkors all focus without any fuss at the wide end yet the 17-55 would not?
2. Why did my 17-55/D70 always lock focus (black dot in viewfinder) on a distant target yet the lens barrel showed 10 feet?
3. Why in AFS could I release the shutter? If the camera is not focussed (i.e. cannot lock on to a subject as shown in the manual you are so fond of quoting) it should hunt. It doesn't, it shows a lock.
4. If the issue is merely an AF target selection problem why was I told by Nikon to send the lens in for calibration as "none of their batch of 17-55 could be made to focus correctly with any D70S so a lens exchange would be pointless"?
5. Why did Nikon acknowledge that there was a problem with my lens if it was merely an AF target issue?
6. Why after Nikon (finally after two attempts) fixed my lens did its AF success at the wide end go from 0% to nearly 100%? Or was it that I had suddenly learned how to focus?
These issues are not unique to me and are replicated over many of the posters on this forum.
Your continued assertion that everyone who has a problem can't use their equipment is bizarre as is your terrier like pursuit of these threads. What is your motive?
Adam
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Make hay while the sun shines
Well here we are again. The world isn't flat, Elvis is dead and yes, despite your conviction to the contrary, there is a problem with DX lenses.
Answer these questions:
1. Why did my 17-35, 20 and 18-70 Nikkors all focus without any fuss at the wide end yet the 17-55 would not?
2. Why did my 17-55/D70 always lock focus (black dot in viewfinder) on a distant target yet the lens barrel showed 10 feet?
3. Why in AFS could I release the shutter? If the camera is not focussed (i.e. cannot lock on to a subject as shown in the manual you are so fond of quoting) it should hunt. It doesn't, it shows a lock.
4. If the issue is merely an AF target selection problem why was I told by Nikon to send the lens in for calibration as "none of their batch of 17-55 could be made to focus correctly with any D70S so a lens exchange would be pointless"?
5. Why did Nikon acknowledge that there was a problem with my lens if it was merely an AF target issue?
6. Why after Nikon (finally after two attempts) fixed my lens did its AF success at the wide end go from 0% to nearly 100%? Or was it that I had suddenly learned how to focus?
These issues are not unique to me and are replicated over many of the posters on this forum.
Your continued assertion that everyone who has a problem can't use their equipment is bizarre as is your terrier like pursuit of these threads. What is your motive?
Adam
--
Make hay while the sun shines
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
Sorry for delay - I do not spend all my time on the internet and do not see every post
I first became aware of the issue with F100 in Africa in 1999 when the slower 80-400 at 300 was better at locking on distant zebra stripes than the 300 f2.8.
What you observe is common to fast lenses and AF in general, and not restricted to the 17-55.
What I repeat is in 179 threads (at 22/2/06) in 8 months supported by images every-one has ignored Nikon's AF guidelines and there have been none following Nikon's guidelines.
I have seen 1 thread where there was unsharpness on the right of the frame (in a 17-55), probably due to a decentered element but this is a different issue to front or back focus.
Whether it is unique or not 179 have posted ignoring Nikon's guidelines on getting good results with AF, and none have posted following them.
I can only record what I see posted. However my observation is that if front or back focus was prevalent (as distinct from not following AF guidance) there would be images posted following Nikon's guidance.
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Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
The 18-70 has a different maximum aperture to the 17-55. The more out of focus image (because of f2.8) means with a border line target the faster lens fails first because of passive AF system limitations.
I first became aware of the issue with F100 in Africa in 1999 when the slower 80-400 at 300 was better at locking on distant zebra stripes than the 300 f2.8.
What you observe is common to fast lenses and AF in general, and not restricted to the 17-55.
Probably partly because at 17mm hyperfocal distance on DX is around 10 feet so you still get sharp pictures. Nikon draw attention to the special issues of using wide angles on DX in the wide angle DX lens instructions The problems are a) the sensors are generally bigger in DX cameras, b) the image is 33% smaller on the smaller DX mirror, c) angle of view for angle of view DX has 1 stop more depth of field than 24x36 so there is less contrast between in an out of focus. The combination of these 3 factors can give AF a hard time on DX at wide angles - Nikon have the decency to point this out in the lens instructions. If you want true infinity at 17mm there are few AF targets "good enough" to get it with D2x, D200, D80 or F6 AF - instant manual focus is available when you want to use it.
Without knowing your AF settings it is impossible to know, but in shutter priority AF the camera allows a picture even if AF is not locked. In focus priority the camera does not normally take a picture if focus is not locked.
Don't know - I did not talk to Nikon - but there is strong circumstantial evidence in USA where litigation is prevalent Nikon take the easy option and ask for the camera back. In Europe you are much more likely to be told AF focuses at a different point within the available dof depending on lens, aperture and focus distance, and this has nothing to do with AF. What Nikon have a hard time with is getting some people to understand why, because of the laws of optics, a correctly focused 17-55 at 17mm may have 90% or more of the dof behind the focus point, and with a 200mm at 200mm the dof of field is equal both sides of the focus point. What you cannot have is the same "shape" of dof (eg 33% in front 66% behind) with all lenses at all apertures at all distances because dof does not work that way.
This is part of my dilemma. I have never said there are no defective units.
What I repeat is in 179 threads (at 22/2/06) in 8 months supported by images every-one has ignored Nikon's AF guidelines and there have been none following Nikon's guidelines.
I have seen 1 thread where there was unsharpness on the right of the frame (in a 17-55), probably due to a decentered element but this is a different issue to front or back focus.
This again is part of the dilemma.
Whether it is unique or not 179 have posted ignoring Nikon's guidelines on getting good results with AF, and none have posted following them.
I can only record what I see posted. However my observation is that if front or back focus was prevalent (as distinct from not following AF guidance) there would be images posted following Nikon's guidance.
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Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
But not same lens - and not the same subjects.
The greater out of focus detail (due to being f2.8) withe the 17-55 is likely to see less detail with many AF subjects at infinity. If the 18-70 has a more skilled user than the 17-55 the 18-70 will normally produce better results. Equipment alone does not guarantee good results - it helps if the brain behind the lens reads the instructions on getting good results with AF and applies reasonable common sense.
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Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
I have now seen 182 threads ignoring Nikon's guidance on getting good results with AF and none following it - including 50 specific to the 17-55.
Several are now posting me links I have not seen - and so far every one of these also fails to follow Nikon's advice on getting good results with AF.
So how do you test a lens. First not with a 45 degree target because Nikon have said with every body since the F100 AF may not work well with them. Whether depth of field is equal both sides of the focus point or obviously greater behind depends on focal length, focus distance and format. Some wrongly assume when dof is not equal both sides of the line or split 33-66% it is evidence of front or back focus. It is not - it is just how dof works. Worse still several zooms have a curved field so 45 degree tests can be very good for measuring field curvature - so often wrongly assumed to be front or back focus.
To check for infinity focus find increasing distant targets with large detail and good contrast (a hazy distant view is usually not good enough for passive AF at 17mm) and check if AF will go beyond 10 feet if you use your brain to choose a good distant 17mm AF target. If with a good AF target, backed up by manual focus, the lens does not focus beyond 10 feet infinity is set up wrong. With the rear monitor going to 24 inches wide (A2 print size) on cameras like the D200 it does not need an optical test bench to find out if there is an infinity issue.
Next using a tripod at about 3 feet and a good target parallel (use a mirror) to the sensor camera on a tripod make sure AF locks on, switch to MF, take a picture followed without touching the focus ring by one 2-3 inches closer and one 2-3 inches further back. If the second or third picture is sharpest it indicates a focus issue. Re test at closer intervals in the suspected focus shift direction to clarify the exact shift.
You should ideally have a regular test target, know how much detail your system can resolve, and from this get by on a single test image only investigating further if quality is not good.
It theory it should only take a few minutes for anybody to test a lens in a digital age - provided they follow Nikon's guidance for getting good results with AF when testing AF. I am perplexed as to why so many with so much quality equipment complain instead of doing basic elementary reliable testing.
Despite all the furore on this thread I still have not seen a posted image following Nikon's guidance - and 182 ignoring it.
I if I missed an example of evidence with a good target please post it so I can adjust the score.
--
Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
Several are now posting me links I have not seen - and so far every one of these also fails to follow Nikon's advice on getting good results with AF.
So how do you test a lens. First not with a 45 degree target because Nikon have said with every body since the F100 AF may not work well with them. Whether depth of field is equal both sides of the focus point or obviously greater behind depends on focal length, focus distance and format. Some wrongly assume when dof is not equal both sides of the line or split 33-66% it is evidence of front or back focus. It is not - it is just how dof works. Worse still several zooms have a curved field so 45 degree tests can be very good for measuring field curvature - so often wrongly assumed to be front or back focus.
To check for infinity focus find increasing distant targets with large detail and good contrast (a hazy distant view is usually not good enough for passive AF at 17mm) and check if AF will go beyond 10 feet if you use your brain to choose a good distant 17mm AF target. If with a good AF target, backed up by manual focus, the lens does not focus beyond 10 feet infinity is set up wrong. With the rear monitor going to 24 inches wide (A2 print size) on cameras like the D200 it does not need an optical test bench to find out if there is an infinity issue.
Next using a tripod at about 3 feet and a good target parallel (use a mirror) to the sensor camera on a tripod make sure AF locks on, switch to MF, take a picture followed without touching the focus ring by one 2-3 inches closer and one 2-3 inches further back. If the second or third picture is sharpest it indicates a focus issue. Re test at closer intervals in the suspected focus shift direction to clarify the exact shift.
You should ideally have a regular test target, know how much detail your system can resolve, and from this get by on a single test image only investigating further if quality is not good.
It theory it should only take a few minutes for anybody to test a lens in a digital age - provided they follow Nikon's guidance for getting good results with AF when testing AF. I am perplexed as to why so many with so much quality equipment complain instead of doing basic elementary reliable testing.
Despite all the furore on this thread I still have not seen a posted image following Nikon's guidance - and 182 ignoring it.
I if I missed an example of evidence with a good target please post it so I can adjust the score.
--
Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
Kaj E
Forum Pro
Hi Leonard, I see you dug up a very old thread to revert to your favorite topic.
I must have a very strange 17-55, I have never had a focusing problem on any focusing target or any focal length. As long as there is the slightest contrast in the focusing area the lens focuses like a charm on my D200.
--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member
I must have a very strange 17-55, I have never had a focusing problem on any focusing target or any focal length. As long as there is the slightest contrast in the focusing area the lens focuses like a charm on my D200.
--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member
The Developer
Senior Member
I think Adam-T explains this very well in this post...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=22142022
-thedeveloper
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=22142022
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-thedeveloper
Leonard Shepherd
Forum Pro
Actually I did not dig it up - it was referred to me for comment on Sunday evening. I agree with your comments on the 17-55 - on mine on the D200 it takes no more than a half reasonable AF target to get good AF. Trouble is some choose a less than 1/10th decent AF target (defined by Nikon's guidance) and then complain.
--
Leonard Shepherd
Good photography has more to do with the pictures you take than the equipment you own.
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