Which one to get?

gheat99 · Feb 26, 2007

I have been looking at this website for a long while now, reading the excellent reviews available on DSLR cameras. I have decided to move up to the DSLR "range", as I enjoy photography very much, and would like to lengthen my opportunities within the hobby.

Anyway, I decided I would get the Nikon D80, until I found the Pentax K10D! It has many of the features that made me choose the Nikon over the Canon EOS 400D, and its strengths in dust reduction, and the apparently superior viewfinder have made it very tempting. What are your thoughts? I currently do not own any lenses or SLR equipment, so price of lenses etc. will come into play.
Thanks for any advice.

Conrad Birdie · Feb 26, 2007

gheat99 said:
I have been looking at this website for a long while now, reading
the excellent reviews available on DSLR cameras. I have decided to
move up to the DSLR "range", as I enjoy photography very much, and
would like to lengthen my opportunities within the hobby.
Anyway, I decided I would get the Nikon D80, until I found the
Pentax K10D! It has many of the features that made me choose the
Nikon over the Canon EOS 400D, and its strengths in dust reduction,
and the apparently superior viewfinder have made it very tempting.
What are your thoughts? I currently do not own any lenses or SLR
equipment, so price of lenses etc. will come into play.
Thanks for any advice.

--

My best advise will be to read the talk in each one of the respective forums about those two cameras and see what owners are saying about them.

Have you read the entire reviews here about both camera's? I would start there also.

Finally, the decision must be YOURS and yours alone based upon the depth of you wallet, and needs. And I am sure many will chime in also with personal taste, but you will ultimately have to make the final decision. I am sure either of those two, (or three) cameras will treat you fine.

Good luck with your decision.
Conrad 'Bye Bye' Birdie
'Aspire to inspire before you expire'.

Patrick T. Kelly · Feb 26, 2007

"My best advise will be to read the talk in each one of the respective forums about those two cameras and see what owners are saying about them."

Good advice as long as you're aware that some people love to whinge. My ex-wife would have complained about the taxes to be paid if she'd won $100,000,000 in a lottery. She absolutely loved to find the one pile of poop in a fabulous rose garden and whine about it. When I was looking to get my first DSLR I was interested in the Pentax. I read about the softness of the photos, the flimsy CF door, the horrible AA batteries, and how hard it was to get the CF card out of it's little slot. I bought the camera and the card was irritating to get out of the slot. The rest of the stuff was never a problem.

The fact of the matter is that there is not a bad DSLR on the market. They can all take excellent photos. There are a few rules. All other things being equal, higher megapixels will bring you higher noise, smaller sensors will bring higher noise, and whatever you get, some will be convinced you're an idiot or, alternatively, one of the enlightened ones.

Do you research, make you selection, and enjoy taking pictures because that's what it's all about.

gheat99 · Feb 26, 2007

Thank you for your replies!

I have done research on the cameras themselves, and have decided the D80 offers more with better image quality, and better handling at high ISOs.

I would say it boils down to a few things, and I need experienced opinions for these.

Firstly, is dust a major problem in DSLRs? Would I suffer without seals and a cleaning system?

Secondly, is anti-shake for the CCD more effective than mirror-lockup, or lens anti-shake?

And lastly, what do the companies offer for lenses? Which one has a larger range, better quality, and better price?

gheat99 · Feb 26, 2007

By range in the above post, I meant product range.

mrmagoo1962 · Feb 26, 2007

Wow! I was married to that same woman!

My ex-wife would have complained about the taxes to be paid

Patrick T. Kelly said:
if she'd won $100,000,000 in a lottery. She absolutely loved to
find the one pile of poop in a fabulous rose garden and whine about
it.

jcharding · Feb 26, 2007

I am at the end of a similar decision-making process. The first considerations is what do you like to shoot. While thinking about that, go to a camera store and play around with both models. Think about current and long term budget. Then go from there. There are no bad choices, just different choices.

For me, I tend to shoot a lot of landscapes, some wildlife, and some business conferences. My decision was complicated by the fact that I already have a pretty substantial Minolta system which does most of the things I wanted. I decided, based on my shooting style and needs (and how those needs fit with what I already had) that the Pentax K10D was a better fit for me. Here's why.

1. Both the D200 and K10D had weather sealing, and I increasingly want to shoot in bad conditions.

2. I am used to anti-shake and going Pentax made more sense than buying a lot of VR lenses.

3. I wasn't in any hurry to have to deal with Nikon RAW foolishness (although since I will purchase Lightroom that is only a short term issues).

4. I am very much intrigued by the Pentax pancake lenses and soon to be released weather resistant DA* zooms. Nikon has amazing optics, but they would be similar to Minolta stuff I already have. I really like the Nikon 18-200VR, but its hard to find and may remain so for some time.

5. It may or may not be overly effective, but the Pentax dust removal system is a plus.

6. My sister uses Pentax (a K100D) so we can share lenses (good for her, not as much for me).

The pro-Nikon factors.

1. The D200 was a superior body to the K10D in terms of ergonomics and feel (this is not to say the K10D has poor ergonomics, its just that the D200 gave me more comfort). This is a very, very, important factor for me, and not one I pushed aside lightly.

2. If Sony fails to produce a fairly high-end body I would be better served having moved to Nikon.

As I resolved it, the Pentax makes more sense for me, despite the ergonomic edge for Nikon. Plus if I change my mind I can gift or sell off my Pentax stuff and not sweat it too much. Or, in the alternative, I could sell my Minolta stuff (not preferred) and run both Pentax and Nikon down the road.

In any event, each person is different. Each person will have different needs. Decide what you need and how much you can spend now (and later) and then go play. Then decide. Then take lots of pictures and enjoy your purchase.

Leejay Wu · Feb 26, 2007

gheat99 said:
Firstly, is dust a major problem in DSLRs? Would I suffer without
seals and a cleaning system?

On the many discussions about dust, the usual refrain is that for most people

(a) it's a pretty routine job to clean the sensor, once you're used to it, and

(b) unless you're shooting stopped down a lot, or you're in particularly nasty environments, you're unlikely to notice sensor dust very often. Hence, people checking for dust by stopping waaaay down.

Perhaps the major counterpoints are that

(a) it may be routine, but if you screw it up (mostly by using the wrong sorts of cleaning methods, rather than checking first), you can really screw it up

(b) if you do get a bad case of sensor dust at the wrong time (like finding out only after your vacation), it can be a real pain to clean up the images

So it's useful for peace of mind, but it's not like most people are ruining their Rebel XTs during weekly cleanings.

gheat99 said:
Secondly, is anti-shake for the CCD more effective than
mirror-lockup, or lens anti-shake?

Depends on lens. There's perhaps some reason for suspecting that in-lens works better for the really long lenses, but I don't recall formal tests.

gheat99 said:
And lastly, what do the companies offer for lenses? Which one has a
larger range, better quality, and better price?

Have you checked their manufacturers' web site to determine ranges? They're not going to hide their lens line-ups. Look at B&H for prices.

Quality is a lens-by-lens thing. First figure out which ones you'll actually use, ex. a 1200-1700mm f/5.6-8 is probably irrelevant to you.

shinndigg · Feb 26, 2007

...perhaps see what Olympus will offer. The 'rumors' are: E410, like the E400 but with in body IS/AS, with Live View. Also, the E510, similarly specced. The Olympus 'kit' lenses are generally considered top notch. Generally speaking, Olympus offers an excellent value. That being said, as was already stated, you can't go wrong with whatever choice you make. All of the DSLR's presently offered produce great IQ.
--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

shinndigg · Feb 26, 2007

shinndigg said:
...perhaps see what Olympus will offer. The 'rumors' are: E410,
like the E400 but with in body IS/AS, with Live View. Also, the
E510, similarly specced. The Olympus 'kit' lenses are generally
considered top notch. Generally speaking, Olympus offers an
excellent value. That being said, as was already stated, you can't
go wrong with whatever choice you make. All of the DSLR's presently
offered produce great IQ.
--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

Olympus is going to make an announcment next Monday, the 5th about 3 cameras in total.
--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

R Valentino · Feb 26, 2007

gheat99 said:
I have been looking at this website for a long while now, reading
the excellent reviews available on DSLR cameras. I have decided to
move up to the DSLR "range", as I enjoy photography very much, and
would like to lengthen my opportunities within the hobby.
Anyway, I decided I would get the Nikon D80, until I found the
Pentax K10D! It has many of the features that made me choose the
Nikon over the Canon EOS 400D, and its strengths in dust reduction,

Pentax dust reduction is useless. It's basically there as a "me too" feature.

gheat99 said:
and the apparently superior viewfinder have made it very tempting.

The D80/200 has a brighter VF and just as big.

gheat99 said:
What are your thoughts? I currently do not own any lenses or SLR
equipment, so price of lenses etc. will come into play.

Well, Nikon has a ton more lenses, they are available now, they are available used.

Pentax has a shortage of any fast zooms. They have the upcoming 16-50 and 50-135. Both are sure to be adequate. They have some upcoming longer primes. Availabilty is likely to be a problem for some time.

The Nikon flash system is better.

Both are nice cameras, try them both, determine which one YOU like best, check to see if the lenses YOU want are available WHEN you want them and at a price YOU can afford.

Don't overestimate the benefit of inbody IS. It's not as usefull as you might think for most purposes.

And at the current price I would also take a look at the Canon 30D.

Gene

gheat99 said:
Thanks for any advice.

ajay0612 · Feb 26, 2007

gheat99 said:
Anyway, I decided I would get the Nikon D80, until I found the
Pentax K10D! It has many of the features that made me choose the
Nikon over the Canon EOS 400D,

What features? That will be helpful to mention.

gheat99 said:
and its strengths in dust reduction,
and the apparently superior viewfinder have made it very tempting.

400D also has dust reduction. That viewfinder comes at $200 extra!

gheat99 said:
What are your thoughts? I currently do not own any lenses or SLR
equipment, so price of lenses etc. will come into play.
Thanks for any advice.

I would have bought 400D and invest savings thus in good lenses. Actually all talk about weather proofness is not so much relevant. Cameras are handled with extreme care by owners and it is lens which should be weather proof (as moisture on elements can cause fungus). So ignore that.

Canon also has wide range of lenses/accessories, and third party options are excellent (Sigma etc.).
--
Regards, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612

chrswggl · Feb 26, 2007

Honestly, many of the reasons people are giving here are irrelevant. Yes, Canon and Nikon have larger lens lineups, but last time I checked nobody uses or needs 30 different lenses. What the Pentax k10d does offer over the competition is:

1. In-body IS/VR/SR

Don't let anyone say that this is unimportant. I love being able to use my 50-200 lens and go down to ISO 100-400 at dusk to take pictures of landscapes or buildings. It is just a fantastic way to get great shots. You'll need to really shell out extra dough for this in each lens if you go with another brand. Also, it will stabilize EVERY lens, including fast primes and wide-angles which aren't made with IS by Nikon and Canon.

2. Sv and Tav modes

This is another thing that is an amazingly useful tool. I love being able to set the aperture to one wheel and the sensitivity to another. I get to choose the quality of picture on the spot and not leave it up to the Auto ISO or delve into menus. Both of these modes are only found on the k10d. They're just so natural...

3. Weather Sealing

Not found in any camera in the price range. Really need the new lenses to make use of it. Either way, I don't think twice about bringing it out in the elements.

4. Viewfinder

It's basically the same size as the D80, but is far better than either the Xti or 30d. Seeing how you use it constantly, it's nice to have it be clear and large.

5. The rest

SSM lenses in the pipeline if you need incredibly fast focussing, dust buster, RAW button, spot metering, cross-type focus points, works with every pentax lens ever made.

Need I go on?
--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Pentax k10d, Sigma 17-70, Pentax 50-200,

ajay0612 · Feb 26, 2007

Dear Christopher

I also love K10D. My post was just to make someone who have used K10D to respond. As these are in minority, so a bit of flaming is required.;-)
K10D is "God sent" for one, who wishes bang for his buck.
Best Wishes
Ajay

chrswggl said:
Honestly, many of the reasons people are giving here are
irrelevant. Yes, Canon and Nikon have larger lens lineups, but
last time I checked nobody uses or needs 30 different lenses. What
the Pentax k10d does offer over the competition is:

1. In-body IS/VR/SR
Don't let anyone say that this is unimportant. I love being able
to use my 50-200 lens and go down to ISO 100-400 at dusk to take
pictures of landscapes or buildings. It is just a fantastic way to
get great shots. You'll need to really shell out extra dough for
this in each lens if you go with another brand. Also, it will
stabilize EVERY lens, including fast primes and wide-angles which
aren't made with IS by Nikon and Canon.

2. Sv and Tav modes
This is another thing that is an amazingly useful tool. I love
being able to set the aperture to one wheel and the sensitivity to
another. I get to choose the quality of picture on the spot and
not leave it up to the Auto ISO or delve into menus. Both of these
modes are only found on the k10d. They're just so natural...

3. Weather Sealing
Not found in any camera in the price range. Really need the new
lenses to make use of it. Either way, I don't think twice about
bringing it out in the elements.

4. Viewfinder
It's basically the same size as the D80, but is far better than
either the Xti or 30d. Seeing how you use it constantly, it's nice
to have it be clear and large.

5. The rest
SSM lenses in the pipeline if you need incredibly fast focussing,
dust buster, RAW button, spot metering, cross-type focus points,
works with every pentax lens ever made.

Need I go on?
--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Pentax k10d, Sigma 17-70, Pentax 50-200,

--
Regards, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612

John S. · Feb 26, 2007

I am also very anxious for the Olympus announcements next week. They should be feature packed with Live View, 10MP, In Body IS and great kit lenses at a very competitive price. I have loved my Oly kit since I bought it three years ago, it has NEVER failed me!!

------
E-1, 14-54, 50-200, 50 Macro, TC, ET, FL-50, Ring Flash

http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=235&page=user_images

Best, John S.

ajay0612 · Feb 26, 2007

John S. said:
I am also very anxious for the Olympus announcements next week.
They should be feature packed with Live View, 10MP, In Body IS and
great kit lenses at a very competitive price. I have loved my Oly
kit since I bought it three years ago, it has NEVER failed me!!

I also had high hopes on Olympus, but High ISO Noise may still prove to be their Achilles Heel. I don't know why they are not able to improve on it. Also default High contrast, which limits dynamic range.
Lot of promise, but...
--
Regards, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612

John S. · Feb 27, 2007

Olympus has improved on High ISO Noise in each body since the E-1, they are continually improving each camera. The images are very useable with NR in post and keep details that other cameras smear away with over aggressive in-camera noise processing.

------
E-1, 14-54, 50-200, 50 Macro, TC, ET, FL-50, Ring Flash

http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=235&page=user_images

Best, John S.

R Valentino · Feb 27, 2007

chrswggl said:
Honestly, many of the reasons people are giving here are
irrelevant. Yes, Canon and Nikon have larger lens lineups, but
last time I checked nobody uses or needs 30 different lenses. What
the Pentax k10d does offer over the competition is:

But they (N &C) have the lenses anyone would want. Pick 2 or 3 or even 4 of em, get the ones that fit your exact needs, no waiting, hoping, searching required. Available here and now. Not on some "map" or continually out of stock.

Not being able to get what you want when you want it is a real downer and a pain in the @ss.

chrswggl said:
1. In-body IS/VR/SR
Don't let anyone say that this is unimportant.

It's not unimportant, but it's not super important either. It's a nice to have feature for occaisonal use, but just like IS/VR lenses it's not the be all to end all.

chrswggl said:
I love being able
to use my 50-200 lens and go down to ISO 100-400 at dusk to take
pictures of landscapes or buildings. It is just a fantastic way to
get great shots.

Good technique and/or "creative" ways of stablizing the camera will get nearly the same thing in many situations.

chrswggl said:
You'll need to really shell out extra dough for
this in each lens if you go with another brand. Also, it will
stabilize EVERY lens, including fast primes and wide-angles which
aren't made with IS by Nikon and Canon.

True.

chrswggl said:
2. Sv and Tav modes
This is another thing that is an amazingly useful tool. I love
being able to set the aperture to one wheel and the sensitivity to
another. I get to choose the quality of picture on the spot and
not leave it up to the Auto ISO or delve into menus. Both of these
modes are only found on the k10d. They're just so natural...

3. Weather Sealing
Not found in any camera in the price range. Really need the new
lenses to make use of it. Either way, I don't think twice about
bringing it out in the elements.

For 99% of users, not important as they don't make a habit of shooting in rain or snow, plus there will be a very limited selection of sealed lenses available for quite some time.

chrswggl said:
4. Viewfinder
It's basically the same size as the D80, but is far better than
either the Xti or 30d. Seeing how you use it constantly, it's nice
to have it be clear and large.

It's not "far" better than the 30D. Better, yes. But unless you use them back to back the difference isn't memorable.

chrswggl said:
5. The rest
SSM lenses in the pipeline if you need incredibly fast focussing,

In good light. In low light the camera's limitation will still be a problem for anything that moves.

chrswggl said:
dust buster,

Pretty much a "me too" feature and based on how it operates, next to useless IMO.

chrswggl said:
RAW button,

OK, didn't really see the need for it when I had the K10.

chrswggl said:
spot metering,

D80, 30D have spot metering.

chrswggl said:
cross-type focus points,

Still slow in low light.

chrswggl said:
works with every pentax lens ever made.

Good I guess for those that have them or want to fiddle with manual lenses.

chrswggl said:
Need I go on?

Please do.

The K10 is a nice step up from previous Pentax offerings and brings a few features in at a lower price point than the competition, but as a whole the K10 is still not quite there.

Metering is poor with and without flash.

Low light AF is horrendously slow. There are numerous accounts of FF of BF focusing bodies ( I had 2).

SR was OK. Slower to "work" than Canon's IS lenses. Spotty results compared to in lens (at least from my experience)

Add to that the difficulty in getting ANY decent zooms relegates the K10 to the middle of the pack.

Gene

chrswggl · Feb 27, 2007

R Valentino said:
chrswggl said:

Honestly, many of the reasons people are giving here are
irrelevant. Yes, Canon and Nikon have larger lens lineups, but
last time I checked nobody uses or needs 30 different lenses. What
the Pentax k10d does offer over the competition is:

Click to expand...

But they (N &C) have the lenses anyone would want. Pick 2 or 3 or
even 4 of em, get the ones that fit your exact needs, no waiting,
hoping, searching required. Available here and now. Not on some
"map" or continually out of stock.

You're right, they're readily available. The low-cost Canon lenses, however, are simply not made to the same standard as other lenses in the same price range. Either way, I had decided on the Sigma 17-70 from the beginning so this was really a non-issue.

R Valentino said:
Not being able to get what you want when you want it is a real
downer and a pain in the @ss.

True, although I had no problems.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

1. In-body IS/VR/SR
Don't let anyone say that this is unimportant.

Click to expand...

It's not unimportant, but it's not super important either. It's a
nice to have feature for occaisonal use, but just like IS/VR lenses
it's not the be all to end all.

I would say that I use the SR to my advantage at least half the time. I consistently shoot at lower ISO's than I normally would because I know they'll come out sharp. This was actually a requirement I had for buying a camera and I am so thankful this one has it.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

I love being able
to use my 50-200 lens and go down to ISO 100-400 at dusk to take
pictures of landscapes or buildings. It is just a fantastic way to
get great shots.

Click to expand...

Good technique and/or "creative" ways of stablizing the camera will
get nearly the same thing in many situations.

Sure it will, but now I don't need to jump through hoops to obtain sharp pictures. And no matter how much stabilizing one does, getting that 1/4 second picture sharp is difficult. It's always nice to be able to rely on the camera for some help

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

You'll need to really shell out extra dough for
this in each lens if you go with another brand. Also, it will
stabilize EVERY lens, including fast primes and wide-angles which
aren't made with IS by Nikon and Canon.

Click to expand...

True.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

3. Weather Sealing
Not found in any camera in the price range. Really need the new
lenses to make use of it. Either way, I don't think twice about
bringing it out in the elements.

Click to expand...

For 99% of users, not important as they don't make a habit of
shooting in rain or snow, plus there will be a very limited
selection of sealed lenses available for quite some time.

This is true. Yet it's undeniably a plus. For the price of the camera I see no reason to not get it. Next closest seal-wise is the d200. Maybe it's just a comfort thing, but I'm glad the camera can withstand whatever elements I may end up in.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

4. Viewfinder
It's basically the same size as the D80, but is far better than
either the Xti or 30d. Seeing how you use it constantly, it's nice
to have it be clear and large.

Click to expand...

It's not "far" better than the 30D. Better, yes. But unless you use
them back to back the difference isn't memorable.

Alright.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

5. The rest

Click to expand...

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

dust buster,

Click to expand...

Pretty much a "me too" feature and based on how it operates, next
to useless IMO.

Ok, fine. It's useless. You're right. I'm wrong. But come to think of it, it's not a bad thing and if I'm outside and notice a piece of dust, at least I'll have the minuscule chance of getting rid of it on the spot.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

RAW button,

Click to expand...

OK, didn't really see the need for it when I had the K10.

I love mine. I shoot JPEG usually but when I hit a scene with high-dynamic range I don't need to dive into menus.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

spot metering,

Click to expand...

D80, 30D have spot metering.

This was more a point against the Canon Xti. Remember, price is still something to think about and the k10d is cheaper than both these cameras while including more features.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

works with every pentax lens ever made.

Click to expand...

Good I guess for those that have them or want to fiddle with manual
lenses.

The older lenses are much cheaper than their AF counterparts. If you're looking for good inexpensive glass this is a route not open to Canon or Nikon.

R Valentino said:
R Valentino said:

Need I go on?

Click to expand...

Please do.

The K10 is a nice step up from previous Pentax offerings and brings
a few features in at a lower price point than the competition, but
as a whole the K10 is still not quite there.

Metering is poor with and without flash.

I havent found that at all. It's conservative compared to the Nikon. And besides, shouldn't you be adjusting to conditions as well? Or do you just leave it in auto mode?

R Valentino said:
Low light AF is horrendously slow. There are numerous accounts of
FF of BF focusing bodies ( I had 2).

That is fixable if you send in the camera. Or you can fix it yourself using the debug menu.

R Valentino said:
SR was OK. Slower to "work" than Canon's IS lenses. Spotty results
compared to in lens (at least from my experience)

If you could point me to a scientific test that would be appreciated.

R Valentino said:
Add to that the difficulty in getting ANY decent zooms relegates
the K10 to the middle of the pack.

Once again, what pack are you talking about. Are you comparing it to the d80 and 30d, one of which is 300 more dollars? Or the Xti, whose plasticky body doesn't really compare at all. Nevermind not having two control wheels etc. For the price there is nothing on the market better than the Pentax k10d, and I say that as a recent buyer in the market.

Image quality-wise, all of these cameras are too similar to make complaints about. That's why I'm focussing on other aspects.

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Pentax k10d, Sigma 17-70, Pentax 50-200,

R Valentino · Feb 28, 2007

chrswggl said:
You're right, they're readily available. The low-cost Canon
lenses, however, are simply not made to the same standard as other
lenses in the same price range. Either way, I had decided on the
Sigma 17-70 from the beginning so this was really a non-issue.

True, as it is with all the "low cost" lenses from any manufacturer. It's a shame they, including Pentax are getting away from the craftsmanship that is so evident in the Ltd series. I had the 77ltd and it was the nicest best feeling lens I've ever seen or held.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

Not being able to get what you want when you want it is a real
downer and a pain in the @ss.

Click to expand...

True, although I had no problems.

Had I kept the K10 I would've needed a 70-200/2.8, and one is not currently available and next to impossible to find used.

chrswggl said:
I would say that I use the SR to my advantage at least half the
time.

I take "pics" of things that move mostly so IS/SR/VR is not super important, helpful and useful for sure but not necessary.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

For 99% of users, not important as they don't make a habit of
shooting in rain or snow, plus there will be a very limited
selection of sealed lenses available for quite some time.

Click to expand...

This is true. Yet it's undeniably a plus. For the price of the
camera I see no reason to not get it. Next closest seal-wise is
the d200. Maybe it's just a comfort thing, but I'm glad the camera
can withstand whatever elements I may end up in.

It is a nice selling feature. Much like the "AWD" in most SUVs. It's there even if most will never need or use it.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

chrswggl said:

5. The rest

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

chrswggl said:

chrswggl said:

dust buster,

Click to expand...

Pretty much a "me too" feature and based on how it operates, next
to useless IMO.

Click to expand...

Ok, fine. It's useless. You're right. I'm wrong. But come to
think of it, it's not a bad thing and if I'm outside and notice a
piece of dust, at least I'll have the minuscule chance of getting
rid of it on the spot.

I'm sure you've heard it "working". Banging the sensor assembly against the stops is not going to dislodge anything smaller than cookie crumbs. And if you are getting cookie crumbs on your sensor then there are other issues to deal with

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

chrswggl said:

RAW button,

Click to expand...

OK, didn't really see the need for it when I had the K10.

Click to expand...

I love mine. I shoot JPEG usually but when I hit a scene with
high-dynamic range I don't need to dive into menus.

I shoot RAW now, so.....

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

chrswggl said:

spot metering,

Click to expand...

D80, 30D have spot metering.

Click to expand...

This was more a point against the Canon Xti. Remember, price is
still something to think about and the k10d is cheaper than both
these cameras while including more features.

True.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

chrswggl said:

works with every pentax lens ever made.

Click to expand...

Good I guess for those that have them or want to fiddle with manual
lenses.

Click to expand...

The older lenses are much cheaper than their AF counterparts. If
you're looking for good inexpensive glass this is a route not open
to Canon or Nikon.

Sure it is, at least for Nikon. Not sure about Canon since they changed the lense mount at some point.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

Metering is poor with and without flash.

Click to expand...

I havent found that at all. It's conservative compared to the
Nikon. And besides, shouldn't you be adjusting to conditions as
well? Or do you just leave it in auto mode?

Shoot in AV mode mostly. I rely on the camera to make the appropriate metering decisions since I don't have the time to sit there and fiddle or bracket..... kids don't sit still long enough for that. A modern camera that costs nearly $1000 should provide a reliable result. No excuse not to.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

Low light AF is horrendously slow. There are numerous accounts of
FF of BF focusing bodies ( I had 2).

Click to expand...

That is fixable if you send in the camera. Or you can fix it
yourself using the debug menu.

That's what I hear. But for 2 new cameras to have to be sent in and then I have to endure the 30-45 day turn around others are exeriencing was not a solution to a problem that should not have been occurring.

My E-300 focused properly as does my 30D as does my friend's D200 as does my friend's D40 etc....

Getting 2 bad ones is not bad luck, it's bad QC and manufacturing.

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

SR was OK. Slower to "work" than Canon's IS lenses. Spotty results
compared to in lens (at least from my experience)

Click to expand...

If you could point me to a scientific test that would be appreciated.

No scientific test, just my own observations using the cameras back to back. The Canon IS was faster and more repeatable in my "tests".

chrswggl said:
chrswggl said:

Add to that the difficulty in getting ANY decent zooms relegates
the K10 to the middle of the pack.

Click to expand...

Once again, what pack are you talking about. Are you comparing it
to the d80 and 30d, one of which is 300 more dollars? Or the Xti,
whose plasticky body doesn't really compare at all. Nevermind not
having two control wheels etc. For the price there is nothing on
the market better than the Pentax k10d, and I say that as a recent
buyer in the market.

Depends on your use and what you place a greater value on. For you, you seem to be a landscape type shooter, so having SR is weighted more heavily and the AF is waited more lightly, as is metering since you have the time to bracket and or set up manually.

For others fast AF, accurate metering and lens availability is more desirable (me).

From my brief time with the K10 I found there was much to like, such as the build and feel, the auto ISO modes, the ltd lenses the SR but in the end for me even had I fixed the FF problem I would've been frustrated with the AF, metering and lack of lenses. I know they are coming but I couldn't wait.

Gene

Which one to get?

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