Michael Martin
Senior Member
I think everyone who believes the 6mp is the holy grail will be vastly disappointed. Granted 3mp looks terrific, 6mp may have twice the number of pixels but the image quality will not be twice as good.
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Interesting post. I think you proceed from the assumption that Canon SLR talk is a pro forum. I assume the pros are in the Pro forum. I also assume the vast majority of people who are into photography and visit this forum are in it as for enjoyment as a hobby. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are assuming photography is some sort of competition to claim bragging rights on who has the best photos. I enjoy this forum as people are friendly and always willing to give advice. Its not like some other forums that are basically just a bunch of overinflated egos who really dont talk about much but themselves.--Mike
Craig Strong
Forum Enthusiast
Karl,
So am I understanding that you think that the professional photographer has better eyesight and reflexes than amateur camera owners? Maybe you're onto something.
Now that you mention it, let's get down to the basics.
All I need are these pencils. In the end it's going to be reduced to a bunch of dots on white paper and I'm a professional visual artist. Doesn't changing mediums mean reduced quality with each new generation? Let's just give 'em dots, I'll whip out a magazine cover with 45,815,000 CMYK dots using four coloured pencils.
All I need are these pencils and this paint brush. I'm charging obscene amounts of money for my abilities. That should definitely include the ability to, when all else fails, pull out a canvas and paint an exact replica of whatever it is that those poor consumers need a camera to create an image of.
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush and that bellows camera. Graflex 4x5 is all I need. Who has to take more than one photo if you are a pro?
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush, that bellows camera and that camera with the long rolls of film. What if my client wants more than one photo from my shoot? I must own a manual focus mechanical FM2 with one lens that doesn't zoom and maybe I'll use that fancy schmanzy light meter if I stoop to buying a battery (but I won't tell the client I need a battery).
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush, this bellows camera, that camera with the long rolls of film and one of them there 45,815,000 pixel digital cameras. Much cheaper than buying all those pencils and the client will never know the difference.
That's all I need.
-Craig http://www.strongphotography.com
So am I understanding that you think that the professional photographer has better eyesight and reflexes than amateur camera owners? Maybe you're onto something.
Now that you mention it, let's get down to the basics.
All I need are these pencils. In the end it's going to be reduced to a bunch of dots on white paper and I'm a professional visual artist. Doesn't changing mediums mean reduced quality with each new generation? Let's just give 'em dots, I'll whip out a magazine cover with 45,815,000 CMYK dots using four coloured pencils.
All I need are these pencils and this paint brush. I'm charging obscene amounts of money for my abilities. That should definitely include the ability to, when all else fails, pull out a canvas and paint an exact replica of whatever it is that those poor consumers need a camera to create an image of.
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush and that bellows camera. Graflex 4x5 is all I need. Who has to take more than one photo if you are a pro?
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush, that bellows camera and that camera with the long rolls of film. What if my client wants more than one photo from my shoot? I must own a manual focus mechanical FM2 with one lens that doesn't zoom and maybe I'll use that fancy schmanzy light meter if I stoop to buying a battery (but I won't tell the client I need a battery).
All I need are these pencils, this paint brush, this bellows camera, that camera with the long rolls of film and one of them there 45,815,000 pixel digital cameras. Much cheaper than buying all those pencils and the client will never know the difference.
That's all I need.
-Craig http://www.strongphotography.com
J
Jim Dawson
Guest
I wasn't going to post any snapshots, but I love airplane pictures.
100-400 IS L at Spirit of St. Louis last Labor Day.
Jim
100-400 IS L at Spirit of St. Louis last Labor Day.
Jim
I agree that there are a lot of apparently snapshot quality
photographers with D30's on this forum. But that may not be bad if
they learn something about how to get good shots.
Photography is a combination of luck, ability to anticipate and see
a good opportunity and having the right equipment to capture that
image. Luck because sometimes it takes being in the right place at
the right time when you cannot predict when that will be. Ability
is the most critical and learnable aspect - knowing composition,
knowing and understanding the subject and/or the circumstances you
are in, and having lifetime experience doing photography that you
can call upon in each next circumstance. Finally having the
necessary equipment to get the shot - sometime an old Kodak box
camera may be enough, other times more sophisticated equipment.
This is where ability and equipment compliment each other.
In the shot below - which won Third Place in the International
Council of Airshows Annual Photo Contest this past year - I used a
Canon D30 with the 28-135 mm IS lens (not an L type). How did the
IS help? I was able to shoot a a lower shutter speed and therefore
get better depth of field and hence get better definition in the
smoke.
I was LUCKY to be in the right place in relation to the loop the
formation flew, ABLE to realize how well the blue aircraft would
show with the white smoke in the background rather than blue sky
and able to anticipate it was going to happen by virture of knowing
their aerobatic routine and having the right lens (EQUIPMENT) to
accomplish the goal of maximizing the depth of field I could get
with the IS and a slower shutter speed (about 1/80 of asecond when
the rule would be 1/focal length or 1/200))
Brian Hansen
Well-known member
Sorry but I agree and disagree:
do post a photo you want critiqued, no one replies. I don't have a lot
of options for critique. My friends and coworkers are not photogs.
My wife could care less - Investment Banker... Because I am fairly
new to this, I haven't met many photographers in Milwaukee. The
only way for me to learn from my photos is posting to forums. This
is the one I trust the most. Except that has been challenged lately with
the D60 rumor BS. I feel I could become a much better photographer
with some good strong critiques. I know I could post in the gallery
forum, but I want opinions from D30 owners. With this being the most
visited D30 forum on the net - it is the most likely place to post pics you
want critiqued by D30 owners. When you do - you get 4 replies from
mostly people that have the same amount of experience as you have.
What does it take to get your photos critiqued - strongly I might add
without thinking it will hurt someones thin feelings. Realize that the
person posting is doing it to understand what they are doing wrong
and at the same time - what they are doing right. You can read all
the books and educational websites but there is nothing like some good
strong critisism to learn how to do something from people that know
what they're talking about.
I still believe most of the threads in this forum are started by people
who want to see how many replies they can get (can you say Trolls).
OR by people who don't know how or are too lazy to search.
My sixth sense,
Brian Hansen
The reason the majority of pics posted here are snapshots is when you
do post a photo you want critiqued, no one replies. I don't have a lot
of options for critique. My friends and coworkers are not photogs.
My wife could care less - Investment Banker... Because I am fairly
new to this, I haven't met many photographers in Milwaukee. The
only way for me to learn from my photos is posting to forums. This
is the one I trust the most. Except that has been challenged lately with
the D60 rumor BS. I feel I could become a much better photographer
with some good strong critiques. I know I could post in the gallery
forum, but I want opinions from D30 owners. With this being the most
visited D30 forum on the net - it is the most likely place to post pics you
want critiqued by D30 owners. When you do - you get 4 replies from
mostly people that have the same amount of experience as you have.
What does it take to get your photos critiqued - strongly I might add
without thinking it will hurt someones thin feelings. Realize that the
person posting is doing it to understand what they are doing wrong
and at the same time - what they are doing right. You can read all
the books and educational websites but there is nothing like some good
strong critisism to learn how to do something from people that know
what they're talking about.
I still believe most of the threads in this forum are started by people
who want to see how many replies they can get (can you say Trolls).
OR by people who don't know how or are too lazy to search.
My sixth sense,
Brian Hansen
Jeffrey Lazo
Senior Member
Check out:
http://www.photo.net
This site is geared toward pro photographers and they have a very active critique area. Post your pictures, and they will be very critical, but at the same time helpful. The equipment used for the photo is not taken into consideration, just the image itself. Check it out!
George Reeves
Well-known member
Hi Jack,
This is not a flame.
I agree with you to a point. First I think we should define "Pro",
and even the so called "Pro Camera".Surely you have seen, as
I and many others have, photos taken with everything from 35mm
to the 8x10 Wista that were a beautiful statement of the art, both
in B&W and Color. Were the photos taken by Pros? Mostly. Were
they taken with Pro cameras? Not necessarily. Is the Press
photographer that shoots 200-300 photos to get one or two that
can be published a Pro? Sure he is. Is he an artist? You can
answer that one.
I think you hit the nail on the head with "image quality" believing
we all want the best we can get. Will that make us artists? Hardly.
Without question Ansel Adams was a Pro. No auto focus either.
But Adams real forte was his printing. Some of the best ever.
After all this diatribe I guess what I am trying to say is "different
strokes for different folks" and that the brotherhood shared by
photographers on this forum impresses me greatly.
Please don't take this as put down toward you as that was most
definitely not my intention. Actually I'm glad glad you posted this
since it prompted me to spout off on something I have harbored for
months.
Take care and good shooting.--George Reeves
bluedot
Leading Member
I don't know about other people, but I totally agree. I got a D30 to replace my old Nikon N60 (for which I had only one lens). Now the reason I only had one lens for my Nikon is that I took up photography as a hobby a couple of years back and then it was sort of phased out because running costs was too high.
For me the D30 was like a Renaissance. Between my two SLRs I took a detour through the Sony P1 and F707 and realized how much less costly digital is, and with the F707 I did not have to make any compromises on manual control. I learned more in 4 months than I did in two years.
With the D30, I hope to gradually build my skills and lens (as opposed to camera body) collection. I am interested in the D60 (or whatever) just as an indication of things to come.
I am pretty sure that the technology will soon plateau (that's a good thing) as it did in the non-digital SLR world. The Nikon F100 and F5 and the Canon EOS 3 and 1V have been around for quite a while and have been established as reliable flagship models.
I will only reward myself with a new body when I feel I deserve to.--cheers,bluedot.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - In a nutshell, I'm a nutcase.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -www.pbase.com/nichijin
Valliesto Bailey
Senior Member
So you will be happy with a $3-4K camera that is still not up to the quality of an EOS 3? I know that the prices and features will come more in to line with film bodies. Unfortunately that is sometime off in the future.
I agree with your point about have total faith in your equipment. It is one of the first steps to becoming more proficient. Too bad I don't think the D60 will be that camera either. But I would love to be surprised.
I agree with your point about have total faith in your equipment. It is one of the first steps to becoming more proficient. Too bad I don't think the D60 will be that camera either. But I would love to be surprised.
--Valliesto
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
I don't know whether I'll care about the D-60 or not. That depends on what it brings to the table.
That being said, I have to comment about "snapshots". I've found that many people LOVE some of the shots I take that I'd consider "worse than shapshots". Actually, I don't know if any of my shots even qualify as better than snapshots.
But that's not the point - the point is that my photography makes ME happy, and that it makes OTHERS happy. Not everybody, of course, but some. And that's ALL that counts.
Just today, I gave a lady these "snapshots" of her grandson:
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3091.htm
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3092.htm
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3093.htm
They were processed slightly different than what's shown, and cropped and printed as 5x7's. All put in an el-cheapo frame from Garden Ridge Pottery for three 5x7's.
You should've seen the look on her face when I gave it to her. And the look on the faces of the boy's mother, dad, and sister.
THAT's what photography is about. Snapshots? Who cares.
If the D-60 has enough features that I think it'll enhance my ability to capture images, or even just make it a lot easier for me to do so, then I may very well get one.--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
That being said, I have to comment about "snapshots". I've found that many people LOVE some of the shots I take that I'd consider "worse than shapshots". Actually, I don't know if any of my shots even qualify as better than snapshots.
But that's not the point - the point is that my photography makes ME happy, and that it makes OTHERS happy. Not everybody, of course, but some. And that's ALL that counts.
Just today, I gave a lady these "snapshots" of her grandson:
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3091.htm
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3092.htm
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net/MagnoliaOpry3/Roll_02/CRW_3093.htm
They were processed slightly different than what's shown, and cropped and printed as 5x7's. All put in an el-cheapo frame from Garden Ridge Pottery for three 5x7's.
You should've seen the look on her face when I gave it to her. And the look on the faces of the boy's mother, dad, and sister.
THAT's what photography is about. Snapshots? Who cares.
If the D-60 has enough features that I think it'll enhance my ability to capture images, or even just make it a lot easier for me to do so, then I may very well get one.--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
One of the reasons many people don't post pictures here is that there's a Samples and Galleries forum for that. Several months ago, some people here would get a litte testy if somebody posted pictures in this forum instead of the "proper" forum. (I happen NOT to agree with that -- I think you should be encouraged to post D-30 pictures here -- or 1-D pictures -- any Canon digital SLR).
Also, this whole website is really geared towards the technology, and NOT the picture-taking. That's probably the main reason there's a lot more talk here about the cameras and lenses than there is about images.--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Also, this whole website is really geared towards the technology, and NOT the picture-taking. That's probably the main reason there's a lot more talk here about the cameras and lenses than there is about images.--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Valliesto Bailey
Senior Member
I think we are all here because we enjoy photography. Well gadgets too, I guess.
--Valliesto
Chris Maddock
Senior Member
Don't forget, the true definition of "professional" is purely that a pro earns money for his/her work (in whatever field that might be), whilst an amateur doesn't.
It doesn't necessarily follow that all pros are better photographers than all amateurs - I would be extremely surprised if there were not a considerable number of amateurs who have better photographic skills than many pros, but who choose not to earn from their hobby. All too often (not here I might, nay, must add) the perception is that a pro earns therefore must be better than an amateur.
One reason that I think this forum is so great is that it is difficult to tell the pros from the amateurs - in other fields I have wandered amateurs have been ignored, or even roundly denigrated by the so-called pros, who conveniently forget that the only difference is money, not ability. Not here, though - just about everyone treats just about everyone else as equals.
Let's keep it that way!
BTW, I'm not bothered by the presence/absence of a D60 (or whatever). As far as I'm concerned, I haven't honed my skills enough that a better camera would make much difference. I am one of those that doesn't post pictures, because I tend to be very self-critical and don't like to post things that are not (in my eyes at least) close to the qualitythat many people here do post!
KRs
Chris
http://www.maddock.org.uk
Jim C.
Senior Member
David,
Couldn't agree with you more. I've been into photgraphy since 1959 when I bought my first SLR (Petri). Since then I've owned about 5 or 6 SLR's, but have never considered myself a pro by any stretch of the imagination.
I did make a few bucks back in the early 70's with my Nikon F2 and Nikkor f2.5 105mm lens taking animal portraits.
Even did the darkroom thing with trays all over the pool table and the windows blacked out in the family room.
My point is that most of my pics would have been classified as "snapshots",
but I had a alot of fun and made many people happy with those "snapshots".
Today I have the D30 and for the most part love the camera. I do get frustrated with the auto focus at times, but then I remember when there was no autofocus and learn to live with it.
I think many of us would move up a giant notch, if we could truly master Photoshop.
Keep up the good work and I know the family of that young boy were tickled to death for those "snapshots" you did.
I know I would have been.
Jim C.
Couldn't agree with you more. I've been into photgraphy since 1959 when I bought my first SLR (Petri). Since then I've owned about 5 or 6 SLR's, but have never considered myself a pro by any stretch of the imagination.
I did make a few bucks back in the early 70's with my Nikon F2 and Nikkor f2.5 105mm lens taking animal portraits.
Even did the darkroom thing with trays all over the pool table and the windows blacked out in the family room.
My point is that most of my pics would have been classified as "snapshots",
but I had a alot of fun and made many people happy with those "snapshots".
Today I have the D30 and for the most part love the camera. I do get frustrated with the auto focus at times, but then I remember when there was no autofocus and learn to live with it.
I think many of us would move up a giant notch, if we could truly master Photoshop.
Keep up the good work and I know the family of that young boy were tickled to death for those "snapshots" you did.
I know I would have been.
Jim C.
Chris Michael
New member
I've read several times about buying refurbished D30 units...
I would appreciate any information that you could share regarding how to buy D30 refurbished cameras.
Thank you,
Chris
I would appreciate any information that you could share regarding how to buy D30 refurbished cameras.
Thank you,
Chris
Stuart Rider
Leading Member
--Cheers,Stuart Rider.
U
User190
Guest
MikeA,
But about the thread's main topic, I'll most probably pass D60 since need to justify my D30 first!
Ahto
Of course it does not hunt always - in good daylight I have no problems. But problem arises when I'm in rooms and with not so bright light. But me, who uses the camera as hobby, it is OK. In fact, I had not used any film SLRs before I got my D30, only small digitals. Now, after using it about 1 year I bought a film EOS 300 (Rebel 2000) for my dad and tried my lens with it. Wow! It focused almost instantly in the same light where D30 focuses much slower. Now I understand what people are talking when complaining about D30's slow AF.
But about the thread's main topic, I'll most probably pass D60 since need to justify my D30 first!
Ahto
Robert Bedwell
Senior Member
Of course we must assume that you do realize that composition and subject matter are totally subjective. I do notice that you shoot most of your photography in a studio setting. Your models, including yourself, are posed in a very unnatural setting. Frankly I find studio photography much like production work on an assembly line...very boring. Of course the exposure is always perfect because your subject is not moving and you can shoot until you get it right.
Digital photography is a wonderful tool for learning compostion......instant visualization. I believe it is the responsibility of those that know to share their knowledge with those that are learning. After all we were all beginners at one time or another.
I think that it is a wonderful thing to be able to purchase the latest tools. They may not NEED it but there are a lot of things that all of us have that we truly don't need. I say go for it.
Bob
Digital photography is a wonderful tool for learning compostion......instant visualization. I believe it is the responsibility of those that know to share their knowledge with those that are learning. After all we were all beginners at one time or another.
I think that it is a wonderful thing to be able to purchase the latest tools. They may not NEED it but there are a lot of things that all of us have that we truly don't need. I say go for it.
Bob
jan sanders77139
Well-known member
I for one keep producing better and better images, both in the studio and on location with my D-30. Better focus would be the greatest improvement I'd like in the next generation. Followed by bigger file size. and full frame or smaller than 1.6 multiplier. Here are but 4 examples of current work with my D-30.
http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=6766
http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=1465
http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=6346
http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=4199
Visit my site to see 100's of examples of the D-30 in action!
http://www.jansanders.com
Andreas P.
Veteran Member
Hi Robert,
I like your balanced statement and totally agree with it.
Best regards,
Andreas
I like your balanced statement and totally agree with it.
Best regards,
Andreas
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