1D has live-view

hardsuit wrote:
fujifilm has a live view mode on the fuji s3 pro.
mind you , its only b+w and times out after 30 seconds.
the sensor gets very hot.

camera makers allready have a live view solution without useing the ccd.
all they need to do is put a 640k camera in the mirror box/ prisim.
it can even be a color camera .
perform settings, shoot normally no need for optical finder. off face.

the next step is to eliminate the mirror box / prizim all togeather.
a all electronic viewfinder with a bright + hi rez screen tied into
the ccd mini cam.
--
'cogito ergo doleo '
I think therefore I am depressed.
 
fujifilm has a live view mode on the fuji s3 pro.
mind you , its only b+w and times out after 30 seconds.
the sensor gets very hot.
Right. Which significantly limits the usefulness of the feature.
camera makers allready have a live view solution without useing the
ccd.
all they need to do is put a 640k camera in the mirror box/ prisim.
it can even be a color camera .
Right. Olympus has already done that with the E-330.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
hardsuit wrote:

fujifilm has a live view mode on the fuji s3 pro.
Despite platitudes like "no one remembers who walked second on the moon", in real life it seldom matters who was first, just who was best, and who wins.
mind you , its only b+w and times out after 30 seconds.
the sensor gets very hot.
The sensor doesn't get hot, that's an old wives tale. The processor, on the other hand...
camera makers allready have a live view solution without useing the
ccd.
all they need to do is put a 640k camera in the mirror box/ prisim.
it can even be a color camera .
You're not getting this, at all.

1) because the Canon has separate motors to **** the shutter and mirror mechanisms, it can flip the mirror up and keep it up while recocking the shutter for an exposure during live view. They don't have to slam the vibration causing mirror down and pull it back up, like an S3 (or even an S5) does.

2) since you're dealing with an image on the main sensor, there's no disagreement in the plane of focus of the main sensor and focus screen: you can focus to perfect accuracy on the LCD, with the 10X magnification mode.
perform settings, shoot normally no need for optical finder. off face.
You've never done any macro, product, or wildlife work, I take it.
the next step is to eliminate the mirror box / prizim all togeather.
a all electronic viewfinder with a bright + hi rez screen tied into
the ccd mini cam.
Without the mirror box, what would your "mini cam" have to view?

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
in the opening lines of the 1D-MIII white paper where they discuss Liveview.

"In response to the particular requests of studio and remote sports photographers, EVF (electronic viewfinder) shooting with a computer, wired or wireless, is now possible with the EOS-1D Mark III."

I find this an an intersting statement to juxtapose against Phil's comment that, "Firstly I don't honestly see that many digital SLR owners asking for this feature, it's a neat option, it's good for upgraders coming from consumer cameras who may be used to seeing the live view on the LCD screen and it may well have one or two useful scenarios..."

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse330/page27.asp

BTW, while the 1D-MIII doesn't have a tilt LCD, I'm sure that the guys that need it will find that they can simply attach the video out to a portable $100 LCD TV or monitor for when they need to do those crowd grab shots. It will be interesting to see if we see some such contrived assemblage after the 1D-MIII gets out in the world.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
No, the problem is you can't manual focus on such a screen. That is why Optical View finders aren't going anywhere. At full res on a computer monitor, you can focus it. On that screen, it will be as bad as any EVF camera. Go grab a Sony R1 and try manual focusing that. Totally worthless.
 
APS-H, not APS-C.

But sure, why not? This is a specialist sports-shooter. It gives
you 10 fps at up to ISO 3200 (or 6400 - H). Those are the headline
specs. Increase the MP and you decrease the ISO and frame rate.

If you want higher resolution, get a 1Ds (probably soon to be
updated to III).
Yes, but I think having three different sensor sizes kinda sucks.

But that is canons problem, they will have to support lenses for all these sizes.
best,
M.
 
No, the problem is you can't manual focus on such a screen. That
is why Optical View finders aren't going anywhere. At full res on
a computer monitor, you can focus it. On that screen, it will be
as bad as any EVF camera. Go grab a Sony R1 and try manual
focusing that. Totally worthless.
Perhaps you didn't try hard enough?

Look, it depends on the camera, on the quality of the EVF or monitor display, and how that display is implemented.

The Konica Minolta A2 has a very fine EVF. It can be magnified and the enlarged zone steered to any part of the frame. Manual focusing is then done 'fly by wire'.

It isn't exactly what you'd call 'fast', requiring a bit of button pushiing, but it is very positive and pleasant to use. Rather like using a loupe on the ground glass of large format camera, only better, because it is not dim, is not upside-down, and DoF preview works at all apertures...... (also you don't have to put a black cloth over your head!)

OK. That's how it is through the [tiltable] EVF of the A2, but the same thing CAN be done on its [tiltable] LCD.

That LCD is only small compared with this latest Canon, but manual focusing is not hard, even with my old eyes, and that's because of what happens as the image details sharpen at the point of best focus......

As the LCD image hits focus the details in the scene kind of "scintillate" against the matrix of screen pixels. This effect is quite noticeable -- it can be seen to 'snap' in and out at ordinary reading distances -- at least, as long as I have the right glasses on, it can!

Scintillate?

Well, you could say the image "sparkles" locally, where it is sharp, and it is the actual pixel structure that makes this happen. Funnily enough, this also is analogous to the focusing of a sheet film camera, although in that case it is the granular texture of the grindings in the glass that do the scintillation against the subject/image sharp textures.

This side effect of the LCD is quite noticeable, and I use it all the time. Although I have never seen it mentioned in these forums, I'm pretty sure other people with live view EVFs and LCDs must be doing the same.... maybe even those with Sony R1s ?? (shrugs).

And maybe this Canon will do it too ??

My point is that "worthless" is a term I associate with opinions reached with too little time of acquaintance to find out what the true "worths" are.

Neither are traditional SLR viewing systems THAT good, these days.

Most OVFs fitted to reasonably priced dSLRs aren't a patch on my old Nikkormat of 30 years ago. The typical OVFs of today (leaving aside the swanky stuff) represent a backward step for me.....

.... where the EVF of my A2 is just a sideways one. :-)

It is a shame the A2 kind of digital camera is no longer being developed, but maybe the dSLR is about to evolve into something similar [??] And it could be that this new Canon is a sign that such evolution should be taken seriously.
--
Regards,
Baz
 
APS-H, not APS-C.

But sure, why not? This is a specialist sports-shooter. It gives
you 10 fps at up to ISO 3200 (or 6400 - H). Those are the headline
specs. Increase the MP and you decrease the ISO and frame rate.

If you want higher resolution, get a 1Ds (probably soon to be
updated to III).
Yes, but I think having three different sensor sizes kinda sucks.
In what way?
But that is canons problem, they will have to support lenses for
all these sizes.
That's easy, EF lenses will work fine for all 3 sizes.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
 
No, the problem is you can't manual focus on such a screen.
No. You are just plain wrong. With the 10x magnification you'll be able to get extremely precise focus.
That
is why Optical View finders aren't going anywhere.
Focus precision is not the strong point of optical finders.
At full res on
a computer monitor, you can focus it. On that screen, it will be
as bad as any EVF camera. Go grab a Sony R1 and try manual
focusing that.
At 10x you will be looking at a crop of your image that is like looking at a 30 inch image.

I have an E-330. I use liveview B with manual lenses and 10x mode for manual focus. I know from experience. And I think the Canon folks know it too.
Totally worthless.
Totally wrong.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
But I do like the tethered shooting. If
it as it sounds, that is down at full res.
Reduced resolution. 10mp full res over USB would be 1 frame every
other second or so.
USB High speed is 480Mb/s, but there is overhead (start, stop,
parity, commands), so figure about 320Mb/s data, i.e. 40MB/s.
I've tried to program USB before. I wouldn't figure more than 200Mb/s at the PC end. The camera end is where it gets more difficult. Especially on a Canon: their image processing engine is good, but the general purpose stuff, like running USB or flash, can't match things like the SPARC that Nikon uses. And you're hard pressed to get 8MB/s out of that.

Has anyone benchmarked a Canon USB, flat out?
10mp full res is 13MB raw (according to white paper). 13MB is
about 1/3 of data capacity of USB Hi Speed, so you could do 3fps
raw over USB 2.
Quite true, which highlights the difference between theory and practice. (but if you think USB is bad, try reconciling how Bluetooth works in the real world with the chip vendor's claims).
Use large jpeg and you are down to 3.5MB. That'll give you 10fps.

Go to small jpeg and you are at 1.2MB, or 30fps.

Given that small jpeg (1936x1288) is in the same ballpark as
monitor resolution. Nice video resolution, if the camera can do it
(i.e. that resolution at 30fps).
I'd love to see the camera do that with hardware binning. Connect the pixels together into 3x3 "superpixels" and the preview should have three stops better ISO than the full res image.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
in the opening lines of the 1D-MIII white paper where they discuss
Liveview.

"In response to the particular requests of studio and remote sports
photographers, EVF (electronic viewfinder) shooting with a
computer, wired or wireless, is now possible with the EOS-1D Mark
III."

I find this an an intersting statement to juxtapose against Phil's
comment that, "Firstly I don't honestly see that many digital SLR
owners asking for this feature, it's a neat option, it's good for
upgraders coming from consumer cameras who may be used to seeing
the live view on the LCD screen and it may well have one or two
useful scenarios..."
Those "one or two useful scenarios" are the bulk of my shooting.
But that's an Oly, which cycles the mirror when using either mode A or B. What I want is what Canon has, mirror lockup with a live preview.
BTW, while the 1D-MIII doesn't have a tilt LCD, I'm sure that the
guys that need it will find that they can simply attach the video
out to a portable $100 LCD TV or monitor for when they need to do
those crowd grab shots.
Connect it to one of these:

http://www.liteye.com/

Or if you really want to scare your fellow PJs, to one of these:

http://www.tacticaleyewear.com/

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:
SNIP
I'd love to see the camera do that with hardware binning. Connect
the pixels together into 3x3 "superpixels" and the preview should
have three stops better ISO than the full res image.
Hi Joe,

I am confused by this statement (but I am confused a lot anyway). I thought hardware binning occured at the sensor detector level and was only possible with a B&W sensor (like astrophotography imagers use) or a Foveon like sensor. I also thought Bayer sensors had real problems binning at the hardware level because the RGB mask over the sensor resulted in adjacent detectors often needing to have interpolated data put in them (by firmware/software not hardware) since frequently the mask resulted in the detectors having no data recorded in the wells.

I am also not sure about the meaning of pixel binning. My understanding is (and it could well be incorrect) detectors exist on sensors and pixels exist in image files. The pixels in image files are created from data recorded by the detctors on the sensor (and there may or may not be a one to one correspondence between the number of detectors and the number of pixels) and while it is probably possible to create a hardware/firmware device to manipulate pixels in an image file it is most commonly done with software like Photoshop.

And I was also under the impression that the ISO bost from binning would in the case of 3X3 binning would be a 9X bost if the photons detected in the nine wells were added together and would be nothing if the photons detected in the nine wells were averaged. I have read that for astrophotography applications the detected photons are added because the greatest ISO bost possible is and advantage. On the other hand I have never seen a discussion or explanation on binning in DSLRs being additive or averaging.

Course I could be wrong about all of this and I am hoping you can clear all this up for me. Thanks in advance.
 
Those "one or two useful scenarios" are the bulk of my shooting.
But that's an Oly, which cycles the mirror when using either mode A
or B. What I want is what Canon has, mirror lockup with a live
preview.
I agree. That very issue with the mirror cycling is why I didn't buy an E-330 upon its release.
Connect it to one of these:

http://www.liteye.com/

Or if you really want to scare your fellow PJs, to one of these:

http://www.tacticaleyewear.com/
Yeah. I was thinking low tech like these. But if you can justify the 1D-MIII at $4k, then going for the convenience of the headset makes sense. I've seriously considered getting one for use while digiscoping.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/AxionLCDTVReviewACN-5327.php

http://www.directron.com/v2500.html

Or maybe this is a decent compromise. Though I like the idea of one eye only viewing and am not necessarily sure about the flip-up approach.

http://www.22moo.com.au/22Moo%20HMD800.htm

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
I'm still waiting for the day someone demonstrates framing an image while focusing and having the EVF/Screen Zoomed in.

You can't do both at the same time. If you are zoomed in, you have no idea what is going on with the rest of the shot.

Focusing is at full frame, not zoomed.
 

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