Why is it so annoying ...

I'm sitting here kicking myself for getting sucked into a minor debate with a canon fanboy regarding various implementations of Liveview.

I guess I'm annoyed, after so long working with Oly systems, trying to learn something about taking photos, that folks jump into this forum to tout the latest and greatest from Canon. That doesn't change my life at all, so why does it bug me so much?

Take Liveview. Oly has been fooling around with this since the E-10. It's an intriguing feature. Regulars in this forum have been kicking this around for a while. There's been some nice mutual learning going on, and some truly wonderful photos produced. The lowly E-330, warts and all, has been a fun camera, with lots of good results on this forum to show for it. So if the engineers and marketers at Canon now see the light on Liveview, more power to 'em. I'm eager to see what's next from Oly.

Still it bugs me that some fanboys jump in here spouting technical jargon and a bunch of nonsense when they haven't a clue about actually using these features to take pictures. Why is this so annoying? Perhaps in trying to demonstrate superiority of equipment (substituting for a more primitive urge to compare genitals), the real offense is to dismiss what folks are trying to do creatively.

I'm not in the market for a $4,000 newspaper/sports camera. If I was, then it might matter what these jokers say. What I would consider an innovative, next generation E-3 because it may allow me to do some new and interesting images.

So here are my resolutions for the next few days.
-- ignore the fanboys, esp. the obnoxious & stupid ones
-- take some pictures

-- enjoy the threads which are actually about taking pictures, and that that entails.
-- look forward to something innovative from Oly

Now with that off my chest, I feel much better.
--
Jeff

To begin with, I'm an Oly afficionado - without a doubt...I just love Oly products. But having said that, I am not a "fan boy" or "brand snob." I revel in being able to evaluate gear from all brands and as my profile attests, I'm a cross-brand camera whore. It doesn't bother me at all if an Oly member talks about another camera here. Of course, it does cause me to raise an eye when another brand user comes here to argue a point (and he/she has never used an Olympus camera).

I think the new Canon 1D MK III release is awesome. Having used the 1D Mk II in the past (an awesome camera in its own rite), I can see the many situations in which a camera such as the new model can be used quite effectively. And I know that many Oly owners are also cross-brand owners, which makes photography really nice. For example, I just recently picked up the wonderful D80 and D40 - but not at the expense of my parting with any Oly gear. It was an addition to - not at the exclusion of something.

So it doesn't bother me that folks talk about different gear. Granted, I'm no techno-weenie. Some folks can banter away with engineering talk that just leaves me scratching my neanderthal head. But y'know...let them do that because it is a forum that attracts folks from all ends of the spectrum - and I've learned a thing or two in the past during these discussions.

Don't let it get to you. Have a beer (or a bottle of wine), go get laid, and then come back for more. Enjoy life!!!!!!!!
--
Have a great day!

Ben Herrmann said:

Don't let it get to you. Have a beer (or a bottle of wine), go get
laid, and then come back for more. Enjoy life!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

I don't really care about brands either ( though that Leica M8 is sure high has a high lust factor). Couldn't agree more. Speaking of lust, that's some advice worth listening to!

Jeff

Jeff said:

I'm sitting here kicking myself for getting sucked into a minor
debate with a canon fanboy regarding various implementations of
Liveview.

Click to expand...

Jeff, many of us have "been there, done that!"

Jeff said:

I guess I'm annoyed, after so long working with Oly systems, trying
to learn something about taking photos, that folks jump into this
forum to tout the latest and greatest from Canon. That doesn't
change my life at all, so why does it bug me so much?

Click to expand...

It bugs me, too, but having several times learned my lesson, I have recently learned to shy away from these useless arguments. In the upcoming weeks we'll be inundated with more and more posts from users of other brands, and interestingly, it's mostly Canon, telling us how much better their gear is than what we shoot with. I'm expecting a great deal of hostility if history does, in fact, repeat itself.

Jeff said:

Take Liveview. Oly has been fooling around with this since the
E-10. It's an intriguing feature. Regulars in this forum have been
kicking this around for a while. There's been some nice mutual
learning going on, and some truly wonderful photos produced. The
lowly E-330, warts and all, has been a fun camera, with lots of
good results on this forum to show for it. So if the engineers and
marketers at Canon now see the light on Liveview, more power to
'em. I'm eager to see what's next from Oly.

Click to expand...

Re: Live View: I still own an E-10 or 2 that work perfectly. In the 5 years since I bought my first I've used the live view feature less than 10 times. It is a very nice feature but not very useful for me. OTOH, I've seen here some great images posted that would have been very difficult to shoot without the live view feature. As a matter of fact, I shot an 8mm FE image while laying prostrate and the image might have been easier done using the articulated screen. That Canon has implemented it on their new $4,000 camera affects me in no way.

Jeff said:

Still it bugs me that some fanboys jump in here spouting technical
jargon and a bunch of nonsense when they haven't a clue about
actually using these features to take pictures. Why is this so
annoying? Perhaps in trying to demonstrate superiority of equipment
(substituting for a more primitive urge to compare genitals), the
real offense is to dismiss what folks are trying to do creatively.

Click to expand...

Your coment here is dead on. The "mine is bigger, thus better" philosophy.

Jeff said:

I'm not in the market for a $4,000 newspaper/sports camera. If I
was, then it might matter what these jokers say. What I would
consider an innovative, next generation E-3 because it may allow me
to do some new and interesting images.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%.

Jeff said:

So here are my resolutions for the next few days.
-- ignore the fanboys, esp. the obnoxious & stupid ones
-- take some pictures
-- enjoy the threads which are actually about taking pictures, and
that that entails.
-- look forward to something innovative from Oly

Click to expand...

Good luck! The temptation, however, sometimes becomes overwhelming.

Jeff said:

Now with that off my chest, I feel much better.

Click to expand...

Glad that you do and thanks for your OP.

Jeff said:

--
Jeff

Click to expand...

--
Troll Whisperer

In simplest terms, it's a natural reaction that most people have when they've made an investment in something and the value of that investment is called into question. It doesn't matter how deep the thought process was that went into the choice in question. Most people will still tustle with someone who attacks their choice. The person who is on the attack is generally doing it because he, too, has that nagging doubt about his own choice.

I could have made a better choice than the E-500 for the type of photography that I want to do; something that would make my life easier in the long run. That is always in the back of my mind, however ultimately my choice was based on more than the mechanics of taking pictures and was, as with most things in life, a compromise. I expect that the same is true for many here.

When all is said and done, simple reflection on the reasons why someone would bother to take the time to attack your own choices should be enough to help you avoid reply. Have a little pity on the schlub

Jeff said:

I guess I'm annoyed, after so long working with Oly systems, trying
to learn something about taking photos, that folks jump into this
forum to tout the latest and greatest from Canon.

Click to expand...

All of the threads on Canon in this forum have been started by Oly users...

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22167496 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hhivieiehviu )

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22155790 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hgiuihidhuiu )

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22155056 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hgivieixhvie )

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22165026 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hiiuiwimhuid )

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22158343 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hhiziwiehvig )

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22156038 by... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hgiuihidhuiu )

--
If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

During the peak of my film days, I carried an Canon EOS-3 and several large and heavy 2.8L lenses. I eventually switched to Oly to get away from packmule photography. Recently, I was photographing mushrooms in a nature preserve in NC with my E-1 and 50 macro. As I was leaving, I passed a fella carrying a Canon 1Ds with a 100-400 zoom and the 550EX flash. I had zero envy for the poor guy with some 15 pounds of status around his neck. Since my rig was so light, I did not need a flash which would have ruined the evening light anyway. More power to the people who feel the need for that much power at that price and weight. I don't need it or want it.As a matter of fact, if the E-3 is a big bugger, I will not purchase it either regardless of its feature set.
--
DaveJC

It doesn't annoy me at all. I do enjoy correcting factual errors that folks such as you describe typically make. That and pointing out self contradictions.

For instance, I'm loving that fact that so many people bought into the notion that liveview was to help people to transition from compact "point and shoots". Yep, that's exactly why Canon put it in a $4,000 1d Mark III.

BTW, it looks like one heckuva camera. If someone gave it to me I wouldn't sell it like I might many others. I'm glad to see that Canon recognized the utility and implemented a version of liveview.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com

I've been wondering the same thing, Jeff, ever since starting to visit this forum just about a year ago. So many of the most intense disputes have been of the "mine is better/bigger" variety, and so few of these have actually shed any light on how to make better photos with whatever equipment one has. It reminds me of all those arguments back in high school -- "Ford is better!" "No, Chevy is better! -- and most of us didn't even have a driver's license yet.

The gear we have is the gear we have, and there are lots of reasons we have it and not something else. To quote one of my favorite philosophers -- my basic training drill sergeant -- I don't give a dead rat's a$$ what you shoot with, just shoot with it.

So if you don't mind, can I borrow your resolutions and try 'em out myself?

John
--
Everything I need to know I learned at the rink:
Keep your head up, your knees bent & your stick on the ice.

elbows2 said:

So if you don't mind, can I borrow your resolutions and try 'em out
myself?

John

Click to expand...

You bet. And I'll trick to stick to them to.

My college sophomore son does some amateur boxing, and I went to his match tonight. Went there with the 150/2 and the whole deal. Trouble was I was so freaking nervous that I got about two shots, only the ropes in focus, and about 3 stops overexposed. He won, and I'm going to be buying pics from the event photog. But thank god he wasn't shooting with a Canon.

Jeff

posts I've read in quite some time. You are a well spoken man and I know I could never have said it so nicely.

I never get into the who's doing what stuff. I'm happy for what I can afford and the great fun I have with what I've got. I have to admit I glanced at 2 threads earlier today that had quotes from some site or another and I got a bit offended on behalf of my Oly camera. How silly was that.

So, I'll stick with taking pictures and feeling satisfaction when I take ones I wish I could show everyone.

Thanks for the good read.
--
S.Haden
http://www.pbase.com/shaden008

As much as I'd like an E-1 replacement, if it's D200 size or bigger it's going to be a tough choice for me because I loathe big heavy cameras these days.

Best,
Oly

It will all be over in couple of months. The first quarter of the year is always hectic. I call it PMA time of the year. This sort of thing is not only exacerbated by outside Oly members but by Oly members too.

Oly users arguing about the new E-2, the more MPx, new lenses; as if the cameras they currently posses is somehow defective or expired.

Just put you ignore had Jeff, and let the ignorant be ignorant. Let them argue over whose cam is bigger, faster and longer. . . . at the end they are going to trade it in for something else next year, so why bother and respond to them.

-J

--
http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q47/junoj/fun%20stuff/

After "ignore the banboys" and "take some pictures" you still end it up with "look forward to something innovative from Oly". So in essence you sort of end up at the same place you started.

I see no reason to get annoyed with Canon fanboys. I do like to read the posts from people who show their ability and love for photography regardless which forum they come from. From those who have and use more than one system especially. What bothers me the most is the brand snob-ism among many of the Olympus users - we are in Olympus forum after all - especially from the ones who are hardly capable to demonstrate the abilities of the cameras they use to begin with. I do not believe in talents, learning photography is relatively easy hobby, but you DO NEED to enjoy the process to be good at it - that's all that counts. As for "Canon fanboys", there are trade-offs in either system - all boils down to what you make of it and which system you see fit your skills and pocket the best. For some weather sealing is important, less noise for the others, smaller for the third, faster for the fourth .... you can go on with the list if you wish to, but more time you spend with your camera is ultimately the best choice you will ever make.

Good day,

--

• Sergey

Thanks for the nice words.

You know, I actually do feel better after venting.

--
Jeff

Qoute:

"Still it bugs me that some fanboys jump in here spouting technical jargon and a bunch of nonsense when they haven't a clue about actually using these features to take pictures. Why is this so annoying? Perhaps in trying to demonstrate superiority of equipment (substituting for a more primitive urge to compare genitals), the real offense is to dismiss what folks are trying to do creatively."

Just remember, if some canon fanboy comes along and says "my Liveview Camera is bigger than yours," it's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it.

Or so I have been told!

--
Iain
http://www.lightcaptures.co.uk

Sergey,

I have disagreed with you on many posts, but this one is spot on. I couldn't have said it better.

Regards

Marek