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I don't get it....

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Hemidart

Hemidart

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I am intrigued by the Leica brand. But..

I have yet to see an image shot by a Leica that could not of been done by cameras that cost far less. But...

I have seen great images shot by photographers using a Leica.

I guess, it's not the camera but the person behind the camera that makes a great image

Money cannot buy talent.

--
http://dwinnert.zenfolio.com
D200, F4s, Ricoh GR, Canon A620
Nikon 70-300VR, Sigma 18-50/2.8, Nikon 50/1.8 and 35/2.0
 
I used to think this way for a number of years. Then I started shooting a film only project last year in which I wanted the very finest optics I could get my hands on.

I use an M6 with a 50mm 1.4 aspheric and a 28mm 2.0 aspheric. The lenses are in another world. Aside from legendary sharpness, the color, the contrast and overall look from these lenses is worth every dollar.

To see what can truly be done with Leica that can't be done with other cameras, you have to look on the outskirts of the photographic world, well beyond dpreview that is for sure.

Certain books will show you.

Alex Webb: "Crossings"

David Alan Harvey: "Divided Soul" & "Cuba."

William Albert Allard: "Portraits of America", "A Photographic Essay" and the phenomenal "Vanishing Breed".

There is a rich look to all of this work I mentioned that embodies more than just Leica. These are timeless works in which brilliant artists chose Leica cameras and lenses for a very good reason.
 
this is easy... leica is so hard to use, so awquard and cumbersome that if one can take a decent photo with it, he ought to be a great photographer.
--
Irakly Shanidze
http://www.shanidze.com/en
 
Dan Nikon said:
I used to think this way for a number of years. Then I started
shooting a film only project last year in which I wanted the very
finest optics I could get my hands on.

I use an M6 with a 50mm 1.4 aspheric and a 28mm 2.0 aspheric. The
lenses are in another world. Aside from legendary sharpness, the
color, the contrast and overall look from these lenses is worth
every dollar.

To see what can truly be done with Leica that can't be done with
other cameras, you have to look on the outskirts of the
photographic world, well beyond dpreview that is for sure.

Certain books will show you.

Alex Webb: "Crossings"

David Alan Harvey: "Divided Soul" & "Cuba."

William Albert Allard: "Portraits of America", "A Photographic
Essay" and the phenomenal "Vanishing Breed".

There is a rich look to all of this work I mentioned that embodies
more than just Leica. These are timeless works in which brilliant
artists chose Leica cameras and lenses for a very good reason.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying...but film is far different then digital.

All film cameras can use the same film. Digital is distinguished by by the sensor and firmware. While I feel that Leica makes some of the finest lenses, their firmware choice kinda brought them on the same level as other camera manufactures.

I can make images equal to an M8 today....but 20 years ago...no way.

I just think that some buy an M8 and think they bought something magical....In reality They should of bought an earlier M and shot film to get the magic.

--
http://dwinnert.zenfolio.com
D200, F4s, Ricoh GR, Canon A620
Nikon 70-300VR, Sigma 18-50/2.8, Nikon 50/1.8 and 35/2.0
 
because you don't get it

shooting with a RF camera is an entirely different experience from using a SLR & has enormous advantages for certain kinds of photography

certainly for shooting birds or doing macros of insects a RF is not the way to go

the Leica M cameras are about as good as RF gets and offers unique advantages for informal portraiture, candid photography and is presently peerless for wide angle photography needs such as architectural shooting ...in low light situations a RF camera is more adept with focus and for all most all fluid situations, the RF's expansive viewfinder (in which you see well beyond what will be captured) gives a huge advantage for compostion ...I strongly disagree with your notion that other camera designs would do as well for these circumstances

that said a Leica RF is quite an investment, but it does offer advantages that are unique and that some find well worth the expense
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
Fuji SLRT forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke
 
He was being ironic
Hemidart said:
Irakly Shanidze said:
this is easy... leica is so hard to use, so awquard and cumbersome
that if one can take a decent photo with it, he ought to be a great
photographer.
--
Irakly Shanidze
http://www.shanidze.com/en
Click to expand...
BTW... I love your work...

What you say above sums up the M8.

--
http://dwinnert.zenfolio.com
D200, F4s, Ricoh GR, Canon A620
Nikon 70-300VR, Sigma 18-50/2.8, Nikon 50/1.8 and 35/2.0
Click to expand...
--
Gallery: http://web.mac.com/tashley1/iWeb/timashley.com/Home.html
Blog: http://timashley.wordpress.com/
 
are viewed on a screen of your choise - mostly with attention paid to proper darkening of the room and positioning seats so even those at a greater angle to the (optimized screen) will be able to appreciate the brilliance and sharpness of the image.

Prinzs are carefully printed on selected paper with hours hours spent in the darkroom to achieve the exact tonal quality expected. Often a press is used to give the image a wondefully glossy surface providing an almost three dimensional perception.

And in our current digital world? Some of us spend up to hours adjusting, correcting and compensating exposure in highlights & shadows. The result is excellent - ON OUR SCREEN. Then we post the image and 200,000 viewers view the image on 200,000 different screens. Some screens are large, others small, most (I'm assuming) haven't been calibrated. Calibration? What's that?!!!

The scenarios I've mentioned above are may be a little simplistic and I may have generalized (a bit too much). But basically the facts are sound. In today's digital world the photographer needs to understand 'proper' digital processing (both in-camera and post). Else analog results will satisfy that person more.

Sharing images is one of the greatest benefits of the web and digital photography. But also one of the greatest risks for 'judging' image quality.

As to the Leica hardware. I used and M3 and M6 for many years, anong withg a Leicaflex. I loved their use and their images! I NEVER received the same satisfaction from using other brands. Satisfaction for me is not only the end product - the image. Also handling is an important factor. I enjoy being outdoors and using my camera. Like a golfer, I wouldn't want a new club which would allow me to play all holes in half the time!

So I greatly enjoy the Leica handling as well as the images. Viewing one or two images never gives the whole story. Long time users of Leicas will usually attest to the superiority of the images. Often this is only minute, but enough to make the difference.

I compare it to my stereo components. In the lower price ranges differences are quite noticable between a $300 CD player and a $1,000 player. But above that, the price increases are considerable and the changes only small - but noticable. It's up to the user to decide if he/she wants to spend the $ or not.

But then - happily - people are different and views of others may not be the same. And that's good too - else the world would be quite dull. Also, it is true - it's the photographer would takes the shot. The camera is only the tool. (That was more true in the (analog) past. Today such democracy is ending. The body does more than simply hold the film. For 'best' results one often needs the moer expensive body. Sad, but often enough true.)
--
Mike Baginy
 
"that said a Leica RF is quite an investment, but it does offer advantages that are unique and that some find well worth the expense"

If one can afford it and put up with Leica arrogance

--

 
Using a Leica s not hard, it just needs to be absorbed, like driving a stick shift car you need to think about the photo and not let the machine do that for you. Then there is the quality of the tool, it meets the artists demands with style. You may prefer to work with a different tool and methods, which is about your personal choice to create your self expression in a photograph. Enjoy...
 
Hemidart said:
I am intrigued by the Leica brand. But..
I have yet to see an image shot by a Leica that could not of been
done by cameras that cost far less. But...

I have seen great images shot by photographers using a Leica.

I guess, it's not the camera but the person behind the camera that
makes a great image
Money cannot buy talent.
Click to expand...
What you say is of course true, it's the person behind the camera, mostly....

But also consider that for certain situations some cameras are better than others; a RF would be a poor choice for a Macro or Bird photographer, sports also.

I like my M4-P for the fact its small enough to be with me at all times, but is capable of the highest quality.
Sometimes I just 'see' a shot and pull it out of my pocket snap:



The best camera is the one you have with you, and for me thats always a Leica RF.

Mark
--
http://www.photo-utopia.blogspot.com/
 
sure, there are people who like to show off their Leicas...just as there are people with the big, expensive cars...people are always trying to 'one-up' their friends, neighbors, so cameras are no different. For those of us who use Leica because of what it can do as a RF, the quality of its lenses, and the simple joy of using a tool that has very few bells and whistles, there is no arrogance, just a joy in using a camera like that.
--
charlesh
http://www.pbase.com/charles_hess
 
And until you use a Leica with Leica lenses you never will.
 
hgmoore said:
"that said a Leica RF is quite an investment, but it does offer
advantages that are unique and that some find well worth the
expense"

If one can afford it and put up with Leica arrogance
Click to expand...
'If one can afford it'? I think that was covered in the post you quoted. 'Arrogance'? That's another matter entirely. But if you think Leica users are arrogant - and the implication is that you don't like arrogance - why are you here?
--
Oxford, UK
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmhodnett
 
I have a feeling that since I got my RD-1 (Leica feel, without the price) I am "making pictures" instead of

"taking pictures". Everything is taking time; you focus carefully, think about exposure and framing much more than using an SLR.

I am still learning to be soooo slow, but I am liking the challenge.

All photos in my Argentina folder are taken using the RD-1 and al VL 50mm 1.4 lens.

You be the judge: actually I would like to hear your honest opinion about this collection of photos.

http://lowflyingbananas.zenfolio.com/p1040582472/

http://lowflyingbananas.zenfolio.com/p1040582472/?photo=812129943

I tried to make one of my images appear here, but it seems that Zenfolio does not allow for a direct link (am I right?)

--
Andrzej
http://www.artboxproject.com
 
well,

In one sense you are absolutely right,

I have seen talented people take photos with pinhole cameras that I could not approach and I am simply amazed by their vision and talent. bit saying that...

the right equipment for the right person can make that person a better photographer

and better equipment, better lenses and most importantly the right tool will allow one to be a better photographer.

quite frankly an M series Leica is NOT the right tool for everyone, is certainly NOT the right tool for every job, but it is a modern recreation of a tool that I personally thought was lost for the digital age.

For me, and I repeat for me, for the kind of photography I enjoy, I am simply a better photographer using a rangefinder and the Leica M is simply the best overall 35mm rangefinder that has been made. A rfdr allows ME to better visualize the image before hand, to better frame without distraction. I enjoy the process. It makes me a better photographer. This does not mean that I am a great photographer, merely that it make me better. The design is intelligent. I can use lenses that I have owned for over 20 years that still compete with modern designs and the simplicity allows me to use the system without worrying about reading the manual. If the picture does not come out, it is more likely that it is due to my lack of photographic skill than my lack of understanding which button to press.

Do I think a Leica is pricey. Yes. OTOH I just printed some images from my little M8 which rival MF images in detail in color right to the edges. I had to decide whether to use an IR cut filter, to use an external finder, considereded using a tripod, used raw and recojnstructed to 26 Mb.. in short I was involved with the photographic process and I enjoyed every minute of it. I have done similar things with lesser results with my Canons, but did not feels as involved. The Leica encourages that and somehow to me the photographic process feels more transparent than with the Canons.

In the end it is only a tool, but if the tool fits your hand better. it gets yused more and produces better work. For many here, including me, the M8 fits this category and brings back a joy to the process of taking pictures that ultimately leads to better photos for that individual.

As to the cost, when one con siders that a film M7 costs 3.5K and a digital M8 costs 4.8K, merely 30% more whereas the 3K 5D cost what 3-5x the comparable film danon body. the Leica seems a bargain. In addition, though expensive, I should point out most of my 20-40 year old Leica lenses (and 20 year old bodies) are worth as much or more than I paid for them originally. This is due to the uncompromising detail and quality put into many of the Leica M lenses (and for which you are paying - that last 5-10% is what costs the most). Even, were they not, handling and using these 20 year old lense, eg: my prized type 4 chrome 35 F2 Summicron, is like using a lens built yesterday, still outperforms almost everything on the market. If it were worthnothing today, Would it have been expensive at its original price?

To appreciate these tools, you have to use them and enjoy the process, if not you are absolutely right, you will not get it, and in fact it would be a simple waste of money or be purchased as a "status symbol" In fact, I have purchased most of my Leica gear from those who have bought Leica gear for the wrong reasons and never used it.

Hope this rambling helps,

Ed
 
I enjoyed reading your thoughts on "timeless tools" - one of the incredible things about the M8 is that it preserves your investment in Leica lenses - remarkable in this day and age of rapid obsolescence. The following shot is posted on Scott Kirkpatrick's pbase page, was made with the M8 and a summicron 50/2 from the 1950's:



I find it highly praiseworthy that old tools still are useful this far down the digital road.

--
-Steve
'Living is not enough -- we have to talk about it' -(Samuel Beckett)
 
Artichoke said:
because you don't get it
Click to expand...
Actually I do get it. I used to shoot with a M3 years ago.
Artichoke said:
shooting with a RF camera is an entirely different experience from
using a SLR & has enormous advantages for certain kinds of
photography
certainly for shooting birds or doing macros of insects a RF is not
the way to go
the Leica M cameras are about as good as RF gets and offers unique
advantages for informal portraiture, candid photography and is
presently peerless for wide angle photography needs such as
architectural shooting ...in low light situations a RF camera is
more adept with focus and for all most all fluid situations, the
RF's expansive viewfinder (in which you see well beyond what will
be captured) gives a huge advantage for compostion ...I strongly
disagree with your notion that other camera designs would do as
well for these circumstances
that said a Leica RF is quite an investment, but it does offer
advantages that are unique and that some find well worth the expense
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
Fuji SLRT forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke
Click to expand...
--
http://dwinnert.zenfolio.com
D200, F4s, Ricoh GR, Canon A620
Nikon 70-300VR, Sigma 18-50/2.8, Nikon 50/1.8 and 35/2.0
 
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