Dimage 7 Review

jim_dewit · Feb 14, 2002

Hey there is an articel at tomshardware.com about the Dimage 7, Coolpix 5000, uhh and a couple others...

Anyway, in the the article they claim the Dimage 7 has a cr@p optical viewer, and it makes using the manual focus impossible? Any truth to this?

Erik Wagenaar · Feb 14, 2002

jim_dewit said:
Anyway, in the the article they claim the Dimage 7 has a cr@p
optical viewer, and it makes using the manual focus impossible?
Any truth to this?

At first at had to get used to the evf. I have no problems with focussing manually. I even think that in low light conditions it is even better than an optical viewfinder. You have to make sure you adjust the dioptre properly. Erik

Nick62677 · Feb 14, 2002

Erik Wagenaar said:
jim_dewit said:

Anyway, in the the article they claim the Dimage 7 has a cr@p
optical viewer, and it makes using the manual focus impossible?
Any truth to this?

Click to expand...

No truth at all, I think the viewer is excellent, certainly far better than the one on the Fuji 6900z

Manual focus is very easy to use and the camera has a magnify feature that enlarges the image in the viewfinder so that you can fine tune the focus if you need to - great for macro work.

I've had my Dimage 7 for two whole days now and my old Canon A1 has finally been consigned to the bottom of the wardrobe. The transition was easy and I have no regrets!

Nick

Lee Davis · Feb 14, 2002

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready, press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Only niggle is that you do have to press the magnify button again if you want to use this for the next shot.

Lee

:>

Nick62677 said:
Manual focus is very easy to use and the camera has a magnify
feature that enlarges the image in the viewfinder so that you can
fine tune the focus if you need to - great for macro work.

I've had my Dimage 7 for two whole days now and my old Canon A1 has
finally been consigned to the bottom of the wardrobe. The
transition was easy and I have no regrets!

Nick

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

LSDavis said:
I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification. Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical camera.--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

MartyB · Feb 14, 2002

Optical viewfinders aren't perfect either. It depends if the subject fills the frame. I have had to zoom in to focus in the 70's and 80's before autofocus. If I was already at the limit of the lens, I just took insurance shots and hoped for the best. With magnification you have the compromise you need (in the few situations where you want manual focus) to make manual wysiwyg exposure work which is a plus.

Acutally Minolta has an alternative for wysiwyg on the Maxxum 7 35mm which is to display a honeycomb of + - EV values.

Dr. Gonzo said:
LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Barry Kernerman · Feb 14, 2002

Gonzo,

I don't think anyone will argue that all things being equal, a GOOD optical viewfinder is better than an EVF viewfinder. However I think that being able to see 100% of your image, rather than just 75% - 85% of it, plus the resulting parallax problems, more than makes up for any deficiencies of a decent EVF system such as exists in the D7. Barry

Dr. Gonzo said:
LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Minolta_man · Feb 14, 2002

Get a life, Why do you insist on hovering around the minolta forum Jason (yes you are the same person)

Dr. Gonzo said:
LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Minolta_man · Feb 14, 2002

In the review he states: It also has a great advantage over the E-20, the other reflex-type camera in the test: the image in the viewfinder and on screen is exactly the one you get. and But why did Olympus keep the body and forget to improve something as vital as the focus? The E-20 focuses the same as the E-10, so changing the sensor results in a skewed focus. and It takes beautiful, perfectly defined photos, with true rendering of color. It takes them fast; its zoom is powerful, bright and distorts little.

Which leaves me to believe you are wasting a lot of money on the olympus and the Minolta is indeed a wonderful deal. I have been using my d7 in my photography company for almost 2 weeks and I am truly in love with it! I use the images right out of the camera with no extra color processing, 100% of the images have had perfect color balance in the studio and when printed on my noritsu lab they look just like portrait film Kodak portra printed on portrait paper (it is ). Not those ugly oversaturated colors. I truly would not want any other camera. I can buy 2 of the d7's for what 1 e20 is.

(Ok gonzo, troll away)
He is going for the sutble approach now of bashing.

MartyB · Feb 14, 2002

Optical versus electronic view finder on a digital camera is an interesting issue. The D7, D5, F-707 and the Fuji 6900 have the EVF but the S304 and S404 don't. The D7/D5, I think provides the best solution so far for EVF but that doesn't mean if they could solve the parallax and provide 95+% in a future camera that would be bad idea. On the under hand you would loose something in makeing the trade-off. Of course how important is it? How often do we need manual focus anyhow? But judging the exposure is much more common and more critical in a digital camera then shooting netatives on a film camera. This is just the sort of academic argument it's fun to discuss and argue about. I don't mind Dr. Gonzo presenting the case for optical but he should not make a claim without providing a little more evidence.

Minolta_man said:
Dr. Gonzo said:

LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Click to expand...

The Man · Feb 14, 2002

You're right Dr. G., lets be realistic. The magnafication is NOT an imperative option to use as I'm perfectly capable of manual focusing the camera with it in most situations. but having the EVF allows you the option of using the 4x magnafier when it's helpful. An optical VF doesn't allow that option at all. Also, in very low light the EVF on the D7 automatically gains up to keep the image bright so you can still see your subject to compose AND focus on it. In many siimilar situations an optical VF would be so dark you would be lucky to see your subject at all let along focusing on it.

Both types of VF are nice but after using the EVF on the D7 I'd never go back as I enjoy the advantages it offers over an optical VF.

Dr. Gonzo said:
LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Mike Roberts · Feb 14, 2002

Dr. Gonzo said:
Let's be realistic here.

Ok.

Dr. Gonzo said:
An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far higher resolution through the
eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.

Depends on whose eyes you are talking about, but I can agree with tath in general. BTW, did you subtract from your resolution calculations the 15%-20% you do not get a chance to see in an OVF?

In the future this could change. The pixel count will go up on EVFs, but OVFs have peaked.

Dr. Gonzo said:
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details.

Depends on your f-stop/depth of field. So your truism is only sometimes true.

Dr. Gonzo said:
So it's useful for EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a
TTL optical camera.

Not true. An OVF with a 4x (somehow) would be very powerful especially for macro work. When an EVF is in 4x mode I am seeing, um, um, 'more' than you are in an OVF.

Mike "Realistic" Roberts

rikster74272 · Feb 14, 2002

MartyB said:
Minolta_man said:

Dr. Gonzo said:

LSDavis said:

I second this view. Many people do not appreciate the benefits of
the EVF. It shows a realtime preview of your exposure setting and
colour balance. It has an almost 100% field of view. Manual focus
is a dream. I recently discovered an interesting feature with using
the magnifier facility: OK, so what you do is press the magnifier
button (you first have to make sure it has this function rather
than optical zoom by changing the setup), then focus. When ready,
press the shutter button half-way and the view switches to full
view. Now, here's the neat bit: release the shutter (i.e. don't
take a picture) and the view reverts to magnification again. So you
can fine tune your focus, then check the full scene view, then
refocus if required. Wonderful. What film-based camera has that?

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Funny the muppet man was not here for a while now he is back. I guess the hensens were not around to pull his strings, hehehe. So lets ignore the muppets and talk so sense to humans.

Andrew Cruickshank · Feb 14, 2002

Dr. Gonzo said:
Let's be realistic here. An optical SLR (film or otherwise) has far
higher resolution through the eyepiece than the sensing medium (CCD
or film), thus negating the need for such things as magnification.
Without magnification, the D7 (and most EVFs) just don't have
enough resolution to judge fine details. So it's useful for
EVF-equipped cams but you don't really need it on a TTL optical
camera.

Given the choice between an AF SLR with no split screen/microprism
and an EVF with 4x magnification for manual focusing .....

I choose the EVF with 4x magnification.

If I went out knowing I was likely to have to use MF I'd choose
an MF SLR with splitscreen/microprism first, D7 second, AF SLR
last (by a long way).

Now if the 4x magnification was backed by 6x and 8x options
combined with the flexipoint facility to move the soomed
portion around the frame -- then the EVF would be perfect
for tripod based work.

-----------------Andrew.

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

The Man said:
You're right Dr. G., lets be realistic. The magnafication is NOT an
imperative option to use as I'm perfectly capable of manual
focusing the camera with it in most situations. but having the EVF
allows you the option of using the 4x magnafier when it's helpful.
An optical VF doesn't allow that option at all. Also, in very low
light the EVF on the D7 automatically gains up to keep the image
bright so you can still see your subject to compose AND focus on
it.

While I agree that it's good IN THEORY, in my experience, all the "gain up" did was make up for the fact that EVFs already suffer compared to opticals in low light. That is one thing you CAN realistically test in a camera shop; those are nothing if not dark. I noticed first that the Minolta EVF goes into the "gain up" mode when there is plenty enough light to see. I think with such an interesting device, it's easy to forget just how much you can see through an OVF in the dark.

Low-light ocusing, I believe, is a different issue entirely from the viewfinder. Any camera, OVF or EVF, with a visible assist light will smoke any camera that doesn't.

The Man said:
In many siimilar situations an optical VF would be so dark you
would be lucky to see your subject at all let along focusing on it.
Both types of VF are nice but after using the EVF on the D7 I'd
never go back as I enjoy the advantages it offers over an optical
VF.

Again, it comes down to shooting style, I suppose. After trying various EVF cams, I felt they were too slow to respond compared to OVFs, but if you shoot slow or nonmoving subjects, it's not as big of a deal.--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

Mike Roberts said:
Depends on whose eyes you are talking about, but I can agree with
tath in general. BTW, did you subtract from your resolution
calculations the 15%-20% you do not get a chance to see in an OVF?

What kind of OVF is that? Any OVF you can focus through damn well better not have that much frame clippage. But regardless, the calculations hold up. Even if we were to accept the 15-20% figure, an EVF, at about 70,000 pixels, is far, far less than the maximum the eye can resolve at 1" -- heck even at 4x resolution that's only the equivalent of 280,000 pixels, still not even close.

Mike Roberts said:
In the future this could change. The pixel count will go up on
EVFs, but OVFs have peaked.

Of course, the OVF is limited by the ability of the EYE to resolve detail. Nothing, ever, will get better than that.

Mike Roberts said:
Depends on your f-stop/depth of field. So your truism is only
sometimes true.

Well, if it is sometimes true, the 4x zoom is a necessity, making it a truism that the lack of resolution in the viewfinder is insufficient for focusing.

Mike Roberts said:
Not true. An OVF with a 4x (somehow) would be very powerful
especially for macro work. When an EVF is in 4x mode I am seeing,
um, um, 'more' than you are in an OVF.

Only if you assume the eye is only capable of resolving 280,000 pixels at 1". The 707 EVF has that many pixels. I can still see the gaps. And it still needs the magnification for focusing.
--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

Minolta_man said:
Which leaves me to believe you are wasting a lot of money on the
olympus and the Minolta is indeed a wonderful deal. I have been
using my d7 in my photography company for almost 2 weeks and I am
truly in love with it! I use the images right out of the camera
with no extra color processing, 100% of the images have had
perfect color balance in the studio and when printed on my noritsu
lab they look just like portrait film Kodak portra printed on
portrait paper (it is ). Not those ugly oversaturated colors. I
truly would not want any other camera. I can buy 2 of the d7's for
what 1 e20 is.

Why try to bend his review to your own conclusion when he already concludes for you that the E20, despite its "shotcomings," it is the most satisfactory camera of the bunch? In case you missed it, it's here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/video/02q1/020213/megapixel-29.html

Note that I did not bring up the E20 AT ALL in this thread, so if it degenerates into a bashfest, blame yourself. By the by, he suggests that the E-10 is better than all four.--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

I agree in part. My personal list (formed from personal experience) would put the D7 and the AF SLR on the same tier. If I were going to me MFing primarily, both the D7 and AF SLR would be far behind the splitscreen SLR.

Note that I never said anything was superior to anything else, only that the optical VF -- MF or AF -- didn't need the 4x magnification like the EVF does.

I feel a little dirty for saying "MF" so much. MF!!!!!

Andrew Cruickshank said:
Given the choice between an AF SLR with no split screen/microprism
and an EVF with 4x magnification for manual focusing .....

I choose the EVF with 4x magnification.

If I went out knowing I was likely to have to use MF I'd choose
an MF SLR with splitscreen/microprism first, D7 second, AF SLR
last (by a long way).

Now if the 4x magnification was backed by 6x and 8x options
combined with the flexipoint facility to move the soomed
portion around the frame -- then the EVF would be perfect
for tripod based work.

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Barry Kernerman · Feb 14, 2002

Gonzo,

When I decide to buy cameras by the pound maybe then I'll consider an E-10 or E-20. Who cares about your opinions anyway? People on this Forum obviously bought the D7 because they like the camera better, and didn't have to lay out double the money for it.

I think that you really believe that the mark of a good camera is one that's painted black and is heavy enough to put a kink in your neck. If that's true, I will have to concede the superiority of the E-10 and E-20 just to make you happy.

Having already purchased a D7 I'm really not interested in the merits of your Olympus or it's Optical Viewfinder. An EVF is what I've got, and that's what I'm happy with. I would just like to read messages from people who can help me use the camera properly.

So do us all a big favor and fade out of this Forum. You really can be a pain in the butt!
Barry

Dr. Gonzo said:
Minolta_man said:

Which leaves me to believe you are wasting a lot of money on the
olympus and the Minolta is indeed a wonderful deal. I have been
using my d7 in my photography company for almost 2 weeks and I am
truly in love with it! I use the images right out of the camera
with no extra color processing, 100% of the images have had
perfect color balance in the studio and when printed on my noritsu
lab they look just like portrait film Kodak portra printed on
portrait paper (it is ). Not those ugly oversaturated colors. I
truly would not want any other camera. I can buy 2 of the d7's for
what 1 e20 is.

Click to expand...

Why try to bend his review to your own conclusion when he already
concludes for you that the E20, despite its "shotcomings," it is
the most satisfactory camera of the bunch? In case you missed it,
it's here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/video/02q1/020213/megapixel-29.html

Note that I did not bring up the E20 AT ALL in this thread, so if
it degenerates into a bashfest, blame yourself. By the by, he
suggests that the E-10 is better than all four.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Dr. Gonzo · Feb 14, 2002

I posted in this thread for the benefit of the original poster, Jim Dewit, who does not have a D7.

It's not for you; you're a lost cause already

and why mention the e-10 or 20 anyway? they didn't exist in this thread until some good ol' minolta boys decided to inject a little tension.

so point the finger, but you know where the other three are pointing.

Barry Kernerman said:
I think that you really believe that the mark of a good camera is
one that's painted black and is heavy enough to put a kink in your
neck. If that's true, I will have to concede the superiority of
the E-10 and E-20 just to make you happy.

Having already purchased a D7 I'm really not interested in the
merits of your Olympus or it's Optical Viewfinder. An EVF is what
I've got, and that's what I'm happy with. I would just like to
read messages from people who can help me use the camera properly.

So do us all a big favor and fade out of this Forum. You really
can be a pain in the butt!
Barry

Dr. Gonzo said:

Minolta_man said:

Which leaves me to believe you are wasting a lot of money on the
olympus and the Minolta is indeed a wonderful deal. I have been
using my d7 in my photography company for almost 2 weeks and I am
truly in love with it! I use the images right out of the camera
with no extra color processing, 100% of the images have had
perfect color balance in the studio and when printed on my noritsu
lab they look just like portrait film Kodak portra printed on
portrait paper (it is ). Not those ugly oversaturated colors. I
truly would not want any other camera. I can buy 2 of the d7's for
what 1 e20 is.

Click to expand...

Why try to bend his review to your own conclusion when he already
concludes for you that the E20, despite its "shotcomings," it is
the most satisfactory camera of the bunch? In case you missed it,
it's here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/video/02q1/020213/megapixel-29.html

Note that I did not bring up the E20 AT ALL in this thread, so if
it degenerates into a bashfest, blame yourself. By the by, he
suggests that the E-10 is better than all four.
--

Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

Click to expand...

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

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