A message from Kodak

This has been posted in public domain (usenet) forum.

Greetings All,

I have completed some classes on the new printers, and I think you are going
to find that what was noted is true. The prints are excellent and the
printers are as well. Kodak has been working on its inks for several years
and has a great technology at this point. I am sure you will like them and

the results. As to the paper, I believe the paper that was released about a year ago will be excellent in these printers. So, most of the Kodak paper
you might find on shelves will do the job and do it well. These printers
also add an element of protection which leaves the printer water resistant.
Very nice, and the prints will last as long as noted.

Following is information that you may find interesting. I will be reviewing
more and will be around to share on posted issues. Talk to you all soon.

From an article about this new release. "Actually, Kodak has been around
inkjet for about 15 years. In order to get into this business, you've got
to have unique talent, intellectual property portfolio, funding, strategic
partners and the path to the channels. Kodak has the unique ability as a
corporation to bring all of these elements to the table. The company's IP
portfolio is impressive, including over 1,000 patents in inkjet printing

alone. And over 900 more patents in image science. So we didn't approach this project with empty pockets. We came with a rich portfolio, a very strong team from both inside the company and of those we recruited. We were able to acquire 65 engineers from other companies about mid-way into the program."

This isn't a one-time deal. This inkjet technology could lead us down
several paths with a wide portfolio of products in the next five years.
Stay tuned.

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company

A very long path, where are some point they will depart from their low cost ink model to offer higher cost inks in the name of "quality more reflective of the Kodak name".

Another joker trying to convince people that Kodak is committed to the consumer.

Ron
Whatever happened to the Kodak DSLRs?

Brian

What a laugh (if it wasn't so pathetic!).

Kodak inkjet paper is dreadfull. Friend tried some at a trade show and ordered 10 boxes of 50 sheets of A3. When he got home, the "lovely" sample prints he got had smeared.

He tried the few sample sheets in his Epson - looked great. However, next morning, the inks had spread, seemingly inside the "emulsion".

He promptly cancelled the order.

In a wild moment (when in the UK), PC World had Kodak A4 paper on offer, I bought one to try, in the hope things had changed. They hadn't. I made two prints and chucked the rest away - fortunately was only a 20 sheet box. I have never seen any other paper where ink spread over ab0ut a 12 hour or so period. Dreadfull. A sort-of delayed blotting paper effect.
--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston

BrianPriceUK said:

BrianPriceUK wrote:
Whatever happened to the Kodak DSLRs?

Click to expand...

They were discontinued in May of 2005. The last models are still being serviced, but Kodak got out of the DSLR business.

I konw - I was being sarcastic at Kodak's expense

Brian

Oops. Sorry to ruin your joke. We still get similar questions in the Kodak SLR forum.

What does this mean?

.....protection which leaves the printer water resistant.....

So Kodak is making waterproof printers? I would have preferred waterproof prints.

Oh well, you can't get everything right.

It's sad how many poor consumers are going to get suckered into buying these products just as the DSLR customers did. One of two things will happen;

1) They will gain marketshare and begin raising prices on ink and paper just as they did with film, processing supplies and paper.

2) They don't hit their goals, and pull the printers from the market, selling the remaining ink and paper at a premium until they end support.

"People who don't learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them."

It's sad that they are getting this much attention and seen as a savior to the printer world because they are desperate to stay in business today.

Do you really think Epson, HP, and Canon are just going to abandon their business plans, place their revenue and profit goals at risk, as well as their shareholders stock price by making a knee jerk reaction to Kodak entering the market? Everyone said simialr things when IBM (Lexmark) got into inkjet printers with a strategy of giving them away. So far they are a distant 4th, with no presence in the photo printing market.

Kodak 20 years ago would have made an impact on the industry, today, they are a shell of their former selves trying deperately to hold on to some part of the market.

Zone8 said:

Kodak inkjet paper is dreadfull. Friend tried some at a trade show
and ordered 10 boxes of 50 sheets of A3. When he got home, the
"lovely" sample prints he got had smeared.

He tried the few sample sheets in his Epson - looked great.
However, next morning, the inks had spread, seemingly inside the
"emulsion".

Click to expand...

What printer/ink/paper combination are we discussing here?

I will agree that most Kodak papers I have tried, leave a lot to be desired.

But I have had very good results with the Professional Luster paper on the Epson 4800 with it's K3 inkset. The prints match my monitor and I have not noticed any smearing or 'dot gain' on these prints.

Joe
--

The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true.
J. Robert Oppenheimer

wow - I can print in the rain - that'll be great for location printing

(if you forgot to turn your sarcasm detector on, I should tell you that was a joke)
--
Webmaster and Tech Support guy at inkjetart.com and thebairs.net

Near as I can see it, one of two things will happen.

Kodak will release the printers with cheap inks. No ink war will happen as Epson/HP/Canon turn their backs and carry on as normal. Kodak won't be able to keep the cheap prices forever so will either increase their prices to match the other companies or panic and withdraw the printers to cut their losses. Either way this'll be a blow to an already struggling company.

Or, Epson/HP/Canon will react to Kodak's model and reduce their ink prices thus forcing a price war. Kodak will not be able to compete on equal terms and so will be forced out of the inkjet printer market and Epson/HP/Canon will put their prices back up. It'll be a blow to Kodak just the same.

Either way you look at it, having Kodak bring out a printer with cheap ink is not going to rock the world. Those who want quality prints will still stay with HP/Epson/Canon and pay the price for OEM ink. This'll leave Kodak battling cheap-ink with those who already have their own prefered third-party ink suppliers or who have even cheaper ink costs by using a CIS.

It's difficult to see how Kodak can possibly win a slice of the market that they're so desperate to get.

I for one have been on the fence about the purchase of an Epson printer. Not anymore. I'll wait this out a bit to make a more informed decision, but I will definitely not be buying the Epson printer anytime soon that I had my eye on.
Rot in heck money gouging company's, I think/hope Kodak has what it takes!

LOL, WC Fields said there's a sucker born every day.....

I hope my competition thinks like you do, I can expect a very good 2007!

Kodak is definitely late to the party, and the other majors seated at the table are unlikely to give up market share without a fight. However, I for one wish Kodak well in this new venture, and further hope that their renewed inkjet efforts spill over into the pro photo market. For over thirty years, I used many Kodak films and papers with confidence. Then in the mid nineties my printmaking went digital, followed soon after by my image capture. I then realized I was purchasing practically nothing from this venerable photographic company. It would be great to see kodak make a comeback in both the consumer and professional photography markets.

--
Mark McCormick

I'm not so sure they are late to the party. I totally agree with your sentiment, though.

For decades I taught photography and used only Kodak paper, chemicals and film. It was a known commodity and all their products were remarkably well documented. With the Web we take this type of documentation for granted. Their products were reasonably priced, and readily available. They had great teaching support (which I didn’t use. Kodak is still a multi-billion dollar corporation, although admittedly struggling to make the transition into digital imaging. Isn’t everyone?

This general process is still in it’s infancy and we all tend to forget this; myself included. My first decent inkjet color printer was an early 4 color Epson Stylus Color 800 purchased about 10 years ago. It was a huge jump in consumer photographic inkjet quality. Significantly before that you had to get an expensive dyesub or maybe a Techtronics printer using wax printing technology. When I reluctantly switched to a PC running Win 95, I was using a Canon black and white bubblejet; which was a huge jump in graphic quality from my older dot matrix Okidata. I was still using that Okidata less than 10 years ago. I’m sure many here will cite some other printer at a different price point in a different time frame that was a groundbreaking product, but my point here is that this industry is in a huge state of flux right NOW and is essentially less than 10 years old from a consumer market standpoint. 15 years ago I had an ‘040 accelerated Amiga 3000 with Opalvision 24 bit graphics. Outside of multi-10 thousand dollar workstations, nobody had that. But now, EVERYBODY uses 24 bit graphics. It’s all recent history. We are just too caught up in this remarkable technology to see the “forest for the trees” and how young this industry really is.

There is plenty of room for a “new” player to wiggle in, especially when they are not really new. No matter their success, and assuming just decent output, I am convinced that Kodak’s new printer line will have a positive effect on all us consumers.

Bruce

I am incredulous that some choose to view Kodak's move into inkjet as a negative for consumers. Lower consumable prices and more choice must be a good thing, right?

PilchardInn said:

I am incredulous that some choose to view Kodak's move into inkjet
as a negative for consumers. Lower consumable prices and more
choice must be a good thing, right?

Click to expand...

It's not a case of being negative about Kodak. I actually think Kodak are being very brave. It's a bold move that has little likelihood of paying off. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.

However, if it was possible to slice a bigger share of the market through ink prices either HP, Epson, or Canon would have done it by now. We like to believe that competition is a good thing for us consumers but all it results in is in the big companies making agreements behind closed doors not to undercut each other - that is why comparable HP and Epson printers work out at such similar running costs.

As soon as Kodak has made enough of a rumble in the marketplace to be invited to the "big boys' party" we'll see the same thing from them and anyone who's bought into the headline-grabbing hype will be wondering why they didn't see it coming.

I applaud Kodak's bravery, but I'm not so naive as to believe it has anything to do with the consumer ending up with lower running costs.

There are other pieces of the pie that need to be considered. For prices to come down the whole process needs to be really simplistic and a printing appliance has to be in virtually EVERYONE’S home. There is too much granularity between printing costs at Wallmart and what it costs to print in-house. At least 2x more for me. That’s the market and it’s HUGE. That large a market just didn't exist until very recently. It took everyone buying digital cameras for it to exist and you can bet that somebody will step in to fill the void. It’s an economic certainty. Someone will say, “Well, a hundred million dollars worth of profit is better than NOTHING”. If the big boy printer makers don't do it, Sony, Samsung of some other Chinese or North Korean giant will come quietly marching in and just take over. And our big boy printer makers will be left with niche markets, which is really what they have now if you exclude the all in ones. The quality of the print has gotten to the point where that can easily happen. Look at what’s happened to CD, VCR, DVD and hard drives. You can buy a great hard drive now for a hundred bucks. The first one I saw was over 5 grand. Forget about the 5 MB to 250GB size differential. If it’s popular, someone will step in to fill the void with low cost consumer grade equipment. Are there any exceptions? Why would this be ANY different? Because it’s INK not transistors? The minute someone says that it can’t be done, I really have to smile if there is money to be made.

Bruce

Bruce

You make two great points (and forgive me for paraphrasing)

1. Home printing is too expensive against the likes of Walmart and to grow the home printing market the cost needs to become comparable (though I feel Walmart will react if it starts losing share - another consumer win).

2. Samsung and co make great hardware. It makes me think of Microsoft's strategy - stick to their knitting of software, and let the experts make the (low margin) hardware.

So...

How about Kodak using it's brand and know-how to market their ink which works in Kodak printers, as well as a new breed of printer with a compatible head that can be made by Sumsung etc? Kodak only needs to make printers to introduce its ink. Once (and assuming!) everyone likes the quality, reliability, durability, longeivity (and whatever other applicable "-ity" you can think of) of the ink, consumers will choose a printer that can use the best value ink.

Then we get away from a closed ink and print head system.

If you think about Kodak's film business, the film worked in any camera, so why wouldn't they replicate this model in the inkjet world? The margins are in the consumables.