M
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
He He He-
Looks like not everyone has had their say yet! Are there really people out there who think that there are products which are not aren't handled, fondled, etc. before they leave the factory, warehouse, retail establishment, etc?
I mean, they act as if other human beings have kooties, and if their brand spankin' new camera, lens, flash has a fingerprint or a slightly wrinkled owners manual it is used, abused, futzed with and just plain no good.
My opinion is like an a* hole, (most of us have them), so keep that in mind when you read this, but to me, as long as the item hasn't been pre-owned, I consider it new. If someone opened it up in the store to show to a customer and he/she held it, focused it, (my god), even TOUCHED it, as long as they didn't BUY IT, take it home and put some miles on it, what's the big deal?
I really don't want to get into a war of semantics with anyone on what the definition of "new" is, but to me as long as it looks 99.9% new, works 100% new and has a FULL warranty card, I can live with a few pieces of scotch tape on the box (I eventually throw the boxes away, anyway).
I think that some of us (myself not included, this one time), should step back a bit and BREATHE.
In 10 years, all of this equipment will be cannon fodder anyway (except. of course for those "L" series lenses ;-)
a shanti...
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
Looks like not everyone has had their say yet! Are there really people out there who think that there are products which are not aren't handled, fondled, etc. before they leave the factory, warehouse, retail establishment, etc?
I mean, they act as if other human beings have kooties, and if their brand spankin' new camera, lens, flash has a fingerprint or a slightly wrinkled owners manual it is used, abused, futzed with and just plain no good.
My opinion is like an a* hole, (most of us have them), so keep that in mind when you read this, but to me, as long as the item hasn't been pre-owned, I consider it new. If someone opened it up in the store to show to a customer and he/she held it, focused it, (my god), even TOUCHED it, as long as they didn't BUY IT, take it home and put some miles on it, what's the big deal?
I really don't want to get into a war of semantics with anyone on what the definition of "new" is, but to me as long as it looks 99.9% new, works 100% new and has a FULL warranty card, I can live with a few pieces of scotch tape on the box (I eventually throw the boxes away, anyway).
I think that some of us (myself not included, this one time), should step back a bit and BREATHE.
In 10 years, all of this equipment will be cannon fodder anyway (except. of course for those "L" series lenses ;-)
a shanti...
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
ROFL....Oh no here we go again. Here is my qualification David. I research the car I want for the various features (engine, interior type and color, accessories etc) then order it and watch it come off the truck and take delivery. So I guess I don't take a lot car either. 
.....I let someone else do that. I know this has elicited many a previous argument, and while I am well aware that most cars do in fact go through some diagnostic check before being put on the truck, the last 5 new cars I got had 0 miles on them, and don't call me a liar, it is just a fact. I realize this too isn't "typical" but in my instances this is what the case was. This applys to 1 Saturn, 1 Volvo 2 Subaru's and a Volkswagen all right off the truck 0 miles on them. THEN and only then did the shop technicians take them for their final prep inspections. No biggie, just the way I prefer to do it. No need to get anyone's underwear in a ball. LOL
.....I let someone else do that. I know this has elicited many a previous argument, and while I am well aware that most cars do in fact go through some diagnostic check before being put on the truck, the last 5 new cars I got had 0 miles on them, and don't call me a liar, it is just a fact. I realize this too isn't "typical" but in my instances this is what the case was. This applys to 1 Saturn, 1 Volvo 2 Subaru's and a Volkswagen all right off the truck 0 miles on them. THEN and only then did the shop technicians take them for their final prep inspections. No biggie, just the way I prefer to do it. No need to get anyone's underwear in a ball. LOL
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
I'm not going to argue that point of view anymore. It is a "very" personal thing and both sides just need to command respect just as if you were of a different religion. That's all about that. I know one instance I had to endure that even you would have probably not accepted. I ordered a add on wide angle lens for a CAnon G1 well over a year ago when I got the camera. When I qualified with the salesperson at Norman Camera if it was new backstock or one that had been "messed" with he assured me it had been back in stock and not touched. When I got it the box was smashed in at the corners (not a shippers error as it was well packed in peanuts) and upon opening it there was a big ole "McDonalds french fry" greasy thumb print right in the middle of the lens. You guessed it....they never got more of my business. How would you have felt about that one?
Yikes!!!
Did you ever see that Sarurday Night Live skit about the ANAL RETENTIVE CARPENTER? If not, you should really try to check it out. Really gets to the heart of the matter, in this case, as it were.
("A big ole McDonalds greasy french fry thumb print right in the middle of the lens? What would I do??? Egads! Kooties! Time to call Joe Bornstein, for sure!!)
Alas, I've finally figured out where you are coming from, ergo all I can say is-Vayos con dios my darlin' (ala Slim Whitman, nothin' personal, you understand).
Gary Shepard
Forfeside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
PS- No doubt I am of a different religion than yourself; no proof, just a strong feeling...
Did you ever see that Sarurday Night Live skit about the ANAL RETENTIVE CARPENTER? If not, you should really try to check it out. Really gets to the heart of the matter, in this case, as it were.
("A big ole McDonalds greasy french fry thumb print right in the middle of the lens? What would I do??? Egads! Kooties! Time to call Joe Bornstein, for sure!!)
Alas, I've finally figured out where you are coming from, ergo all I can say is-Vayos con dios my darlin' (ala Slim Whitman, nothin' personal, you understand).
Gary Shepard
Forfeside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
PS- No doubt I am of a different religion than yourself; no proof, just a strong feeling...
Gerry13326
Well-known member
Best Price Audio Video
Lee, my best educated guess is most of us would be upset if orders / shipments gets messed up every time. But what I dont understand is why you continue to buy from B&H! I have bought a lot from B&H and have not had any problems. I have also bought a lot from Cameraworld with the same positive experience. Point I am making is that if there are problems with a vendor due to the product / packing/ shipping etc., I would certainly stop doing business with them.
20 years ago, my first experience was buying a Canon Eos 620 with Abe's of Maine. Well, guess what - I've not done any more business with them period. I would think you would find another vendor to do business with and forget B&H, but you seem to like punishment.
My last comment is this - I dont disagree what all the good posts that Delta has excellent service and is a good company to do business with. If that is the case, why not exclusively get all you need from Delta! If they dont stock it, ask them to get it for you.
Just my 0.02.
Gerry
Jan Brittenson
Leading Member
Jeff Morris
Senior Member
Hey Gary,
Don't be a butt head. Religion has nothing to do with it. In fact I don't know what you mean by that last statement.
I have read these threads and I feel the problem is that Lee is cursed, period. I have not spent a number of hours reading Lee's previous posts. I don't need to. If Lee had half the problems he said he has had then he has a legit problem.
As I said in a previous post, I really don't care if a product I bought was opened, or checked out by someone prior to me getting it. I just want to make sure that:
It is packaged like new.
It works like new.
It is like new goods.
When something comes to me looking like an ape handled it I would be upset also.
Hey Lee, next time you have a problem send it back for a refund or exchange. In fact I would fax all my future orders with instructions as to what I expect from the dealer and product. New in box, clean etc.
--Jeff MorrisAdams, Gutmann, Steichen, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
Don't be a butt head. Religion has nothing to do with it. In fact I don't know what you mean by that last statement.
I have read these threads and I feel the problem is that Lee is cursed, period. I have not spent a number of hours reading Lee's previous posts. I don't need to. If Lee had half the problems he said he has had then he has a legit problem.
As I said in a previous post, I really don't care if a product I bought was opened, or checked out by someone prior to me getting it. I just want to make sure that:
It is packaged like new.
It works like new.
It is like new goods.
When something comes to me looking like an ape handled it I would be upset also.
Hey Lee, next time you have a problem send it back for a refund or exchange. In fact I would fax all my future orders with instructions as to what I expect from the dealer and product. New in box, clean etc.
--Jeff MorrisAdams, Gutmann, Steichen, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
Walt60320
Leading Member
Lee
Will you be paying Mr. Posner more for his products than the rest of us common folks now that you will be getting special treatment from him or will Mr. Posner give us all special treatment when we call to order something. I've heard that the squeeky wheel gets the oil but the fact is, the other wheels are also needed to keep on rolling.
Walt
Will you be paying Mr. Posner more for his products than the rest of us common folks now that you will be getting special treatment from him or will Mr. Posner give us all special treatment when we call to order something. I've heard that the squeeky wheel gets the oil but the fact is, the other wheels are also needed to keep on rolling.
Walt
Jim C.
Senior Member
This would mean that the people on the assembly line picked the car up by hand after construction and carried it to the Auto trailer?ROFL....Oh no here we go again. Here is my qualification David. I
research the car I want for the various features (engine, interior
type and color, accessories etc) then order it and watch it come
off the truck and take delivery. So I guess I don't take a lot car
either.
elicited many a previous argument, and while I am well aware that
most cars do in fact go through some diagnostic check before being
put on the truck, the last 5 new cars I got had 0 miles on them,
I'm sixty years old and have purchased many a new car in my day, but have NEVER seen one with absolute 0 miles on it.
Hey Jeff my little man-
If you had the capacity to comprehend my post, then you would understand that I was only echoing Mr. Rothman's remark. You're right, it HAS nothing to do with religion, so if you must insist in playing the role of group lurker, (having contributed nothing to this thread for 2 days), please try to understand what is being by someone before you open your mouth and put your sneeker clad foot into it, yes?
On an interesting side note, just after throttling me for (as you see it) dragging religion into the equation, you up the ante by suggesting that Mr. Rothman is "cursed". In many countries placing curses on other people is in fact a parft of their RELIGIOUS practices, so it seems that you are the pot who calls the kettle black.
And, since no one appreciates being called a jerk or a butthead, if you have nothing but derogatory remarks to add, then perhaps you would be better served by simply shutting up, yes??
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
If you had the capacity to comprehend my post, then you would understand that I was only echoing Mr. Rothman's remark. You're right, it HAS nothing to do with religion, so if you must insist in playing the role of group lurker, (having contributed nothing to this thread for 2 days), please try to understand what is being by someone before you open your mouth and put your sneeker clad foot into it, yes?
On an interesting side note, just after throttling me for (as you see it) dragging religion into the equation, you up the ante by suggesting that Mr. Rothman is "cursed". In many countries placing curses on other people is in fact a parft of their RELIGIOUS practices, so it seems that you are the pot who calls the kettle black.
And, since no one appreciates being called a jerk or a butthead, if you have nothing but derogatory remarks to add, then perhaps you would be better served by simply shutting up, yes??
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
You have just described Lee Rothman to a T.
Only if it's been test-driven by someone other than himself. He has to test-drive fifty of them before he can find the right one.
He has to check out and return six lenses before he'll find an acceptable one.
Then the dealers should mark all of these tested items as "used."
He has to check out and return six lenses before he'll find an acceptable one.
Then the dealers should mark all of these tested items as "used."
Jeff Morris
Senior Member
Gary I re-read the last few posts a number of times.
I agreed 100% with you on this post:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=2197577
When I just reread your comments on religion the last time I realized you may of been refering to how he does business in general. His practices in purchasing and living with products. If thats the case your not a butt-head. And I extend my appologies. We should both proof read a little better!
Your post in question:
PS- No doubt I am of a different religion than yourself; no proof, just a strong feeling...--Jeff MorrisAdams, Gutmann, Steichen, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
I agreed 100% with you on this post:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=2197577
When I just reread your comments on religion the last time I realized you may of been refering to how he does business in general. His practices in purchasing and living with products. If thats the case your not a butt-head. And I extend my appologies. We should both proof read a little better!
Your post in question:
PS- No doubt I am of a different religion than yourself; no proof, just a strong feeling...--Jeff MorrisAdams, Gutmann, Steichen, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
You obviously did NOT read my post correctly. What I am telling you is that the odometer had 0 miles on it, not that it wasn't factory tested, but by the time it came off the truck it logged 0 miles. Just a simple fact....get over it....
This would mean that the people on the assembly line picked the carROFL....Oh no here we go again. Here is my qualification David. I
research the car I want for the various features (engine, interior
type and color, accessories etc) then order it and watch it come
off the truck and take delivery. So I guess I don't take a lot car
either.
elicited many a previous argument, and while I am well aware that
most cars do in fact go through some diagnostic check before being
put on the truck, the last 5 new cars I got had 0 miles on them,
up by hand after construction and carried it to the Auto trailer?
I'm sixty years old and have purchased many a new car in my day,
but have NEVER seen one with absolute 0 miles on it.
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
Oh I know Jan.....I guess I'm just a pesky bugger. ;-)....but I'm really a nice guy.....just REAL fussy. People LOVE to buy my used gear. LOL
Jeff-
By jove, I think you've got it. In my post, the word "religion" was used in a figurative interpretation; it had no bearing on religion as in the Supreme Being sense, rather how our own value systems (in this case with regards to purchasing items) shapes our day to day decisions in life.
I assume this gets me off your "butt head" roster. and yes, I do accept your apology.
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
By jove, I think you've got it. In my post, the word "religion" was used in a figurative interpretation; it had no bearing on religion as in the Supreme Being sense, rather how our own value systems (in this case with regards to purchasing items) shapes our day to day decisions in life.
I assume this gets me off your "butt head" roster. and yes, I do accept your apology.
Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
Larz Yerxa
Senior Member
What I've learned from this thread:
1. There is a vast difference between what people will accept as acceptable service or new products.
2. Not many people seem to respect each other's opinions on #1.
3. Gary has a magic number between 95 (Lee Rothman) and 1 ( Jeff Morris) that qualifys you as not being a complaining anal retentive carpenter and a group lurker.
4. Salutations such as "Hey Jeff, my little man" are not derrogatory, and
5. If you object to having someone send you the wrong stuff, or products that have been handled, fondled or dog eared with a big ole' Mickey D greasy fingerprint, NEVER, NEVER buy anything fom Foreside Photographics!
Larz
But is there such a thing as a "whiners forum?" Or maybe a "shills forum?"
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum