And because of these great cameras Canon is adding features to low end cameras. I like the Canon lens line-up and I like the better CMOS sensors, which is why I bought Canon. As Nikon improves it floats all boats.
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Rebel DSLR Series Spot Metering - My Soapbox
- Thread starter macroguy
- Start date
I'm really not that good at judging EC as accurately as I want. I can usually get to within less than a stop from where I need to be (not too impressive, I know.) As a hobbyist photographer with young kids, I just can't devote enough time to photography to develop the skill fully- maybe in 10 or 15 years. I simply am not good at judging a scene with respect to 12% (or to whatever standard Canons are calibrated) reflectivity, particularly when there are mixed or highly saturated colors in the scene.
However, I am very good at identifying the brightest highlight of interest in a scene, metering off of that, and dialing in the right EC (because I have precisely mapped out how much highlight headroom my camera has with both linear RAW and with my standard PP settings.) I almost always get within 1/3 stop of where I want to be.
So, ironically, the spot meter is a critical tool for me, the relative noob...but I will admit that I don't have a spot meter. I use zoom (either lens or feet) to meter off the area of interest. But I sure would like a 3% or smaller spot.
However, I am very good at identifying the brightest highlight of interest in a scene, metering off of that, and dialing in the right EC (because I have precisely mapped out how much highlight headroom my camera has with both linear RAW and with my standard PP settings.) I almost always get within 1/3 stop of where I want to be.
So, ironically, the spot meter is a critical tool for me, the relative noob...but I will admit that I don't have a spot meter. I use zoom (either lens or feet) to meter off the area of interest. But I sure would like a 3% or smaller spot.
How many D40s are sold because they have spot metering, and the 400D doesn't? I'd bet a TINY fraction of all sales...but I do wish that the low-end Canons had spot metering.
Bambi Brown
Leading Member
Your theory makes absolutely no sense since the 30D was announced and released months before the Nikon D80 was even announced.
NickMJr
Senior Member
He was probably refering to the fact every Nikon dSLR from the D40/50/80/100/200..... has Spot metering not just the D80.
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
Bambi Brown
Leading Member
For your information the Nikon D40 has a crippled auto focus system, no ISO or White Balance buttons, a limited 3 area auto focus regions and a 6MP sensor.
I'd rather stick with a 9% spot (same as the 20D) and keep auto focus with all lens and ISO and White Balance control buttons and exposure bracketing, a sophisticated 9-point autofocus system and a 10MP sensor.
P
Patco
Guest
Do you really think Nikon & Canon don't know what the other is up to?
Besides, it is a given that the next Nikon would have spot metering, as all the Nikon DSLR's are so equipped, from the D40 and up.
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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels
Rod K
Well-known member
When I purchased my 400D, it met my criteria for a camera of it's type and price. I would like improvements,of course, but that moves up in price point and specification, until I find after I've added this and that and, oh! this would be nice, I find myself describing a 1DS mk11. Out of my range and present ability to justify as a purchase. Who to blame? Well Canon of course, if only they sold a 1DS for the same price as a 400D my photography would be so much better and the forums would be free of complaints........wouldn't they?
NickMJr
Senior Member
Yes, so your saying even a crippled D40 has spot metering but the Canon's dont!!!
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
NickMJr
Senior Member
OK why would adding a feature like Spot metering increase cost? Canon could do that at very little cost. The fact is that the more Canon users the proclaim that they dont need Spot Metering then Canon will never build one with Spot Metering.
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
tko
Forum Pro
First of all, I think the original poster does had a good point, so I'm not knocking him. But a dSLR has to use a separate sensor for each metering point. A prosumer senses right off the CCD. You can have an infinite (well, 8 million) number of spot sensors in a prosumer CCD style camera. You can program the auto exposure based on hundred of readings, and do all types of clever things. That's why you can have a real time histogram, and that's why sometimes a good prosumer can meter better than a pro level camera (at least in the automatic mode.) Heck, my Oly prosumer could take a dozen spot reading anywhere you choose and average them automatically for you.
You can't do that in a dLSR. Each sensor is a separate, physical item that costs money, and has to be placed somewhere and hooked up. I believe they're tied to the AF sensors in some way, but maybe that's just convenience. I'm not sure, but I'd guess a spot reading sensor is more money than a wider one. So, it isn't a slam dunk on a dSLR.
I guessing that Canon simply thinks that at the Rebel level most people don't spot meter. I kind of agree. Why take the time? I take a picture, review the histogram, take another if it's off. Taking a lot of time to set up a spot reading and maybe still blowing the exposure seems a little silly. None the less, we all have different shooting styles, some of us where brought up on spot metering, so there's certainly room for that.
In a way, spot meters went out with film. With film, you couldn't take two shots everytime you wanted to get it right - and you had no feedback on whether you got it right anyway. You had to get it right, since you didn't see the results for hours, days, weeks. With digital, you can review the shot and correct in a second. As long as 90% of the simple exposures turn out OK I'm happy. For difficult shots, backlighting, high contrast, etc., I'm OK with a little trial and error.
You can't do that in a dLSR. Each sensor is a separate, physical item that costs money, and has to be placed somewhere and hooked up. I believe they're tied to the AF sensors in some way, but maybe that's just convenience. I'm not sure, but I'd guess a spot reading sensor is more money than a wider one. So, it isn't a slam dunk on a dSLR.
I guessing that Canon simply thinks that at the Rebel level most people don't spot meter. I kind of agree. Why take the time? I take a picture, review the histogram, take another if it's off. Taking a lot of time to set up a spot reading and maybe still blowing the exposure seems a little silly. None the less, we all have different shooting styles, some of us where brought up on spot metering, so there's certainly room for that.
In a way, spot meters went out with film. With film, you couldn't take two shots everytime you wanted to get it right - and you had no feedback on whether you got it right anyway. You had to get it right, since you didn't see the results for hours, days, weeks. With digital, you can review the shot and correct in a second. As long as 90% of the simple exposures turn out OK I'm happy. For difficult shots, backlighting, high contrast, etc., I'm OK with a little trial and error.
Who would want to buy a camera that superimposes a 1%, 2.5% and 9% red circle right across your subjects face? 
(p.s. Before anyone replies, yeah I know it doesn't really but I know you have to spell sarcasm out for some)
FWIW, I think that the 9% would have metered as evenly as the 1% spot in this example, if you'd been a little further out so the 9% encompassed more black top and window then not quite so but all your example highlights to me is that spot is not so critical when you have a 9% spot, again, this is digital, you can immediately preview and make changes anyway.
(p.s. Before anyone replies, yeah I know it doesn't really but I know you have to spell sarcasm out for some)
FWIW, I think that the 9% would have metered as evenly as the 1% spot in this example, if you'd been a little further out so the 9% encompassed more black top and window then not quite so but all your example highlights to me is that spot is not so critical when you have a 9% spot, again, this is digital, you can immediately preview and make changes anyway.
.... that much then go buy a camera that has spot metering then find something you don't like about to whine over in the appropriate forums.
I'm pretty tired of hearing this argument, i've shot film for years and use the spotmeter on my Eos 1 a lot, but then i don't know how 'way out' I am until I get in the darkroom and dev the negs, with digital i look at the image and histo and it tells me.
I'm pretty tired of hearing this argument, i've shot film for years and use the spotmeter on my Eos 1 a lot, but then i don't know how 'way out' I am until I get in the darkroom and dev the negs, with digital i look at the image and histo and it tells me.
Rod K
Well-known member
I have often seen it said that spot metering can be added at "no cost" even if that were to be true, (can anyone estimate what it would add to the pricepoint ?) we all know it wouldn't stop there. I have seen posts criticising the cameras' ergonomics, viewfinder, build quality ,kit lens and lack of in body IS. If one reads all the specifications before purchase and accepts that there may be shortcomings at that pricepoint, it seems to be rather pointless to then blame the manufacturer that the camera doesn't have something not included in those specifications. Thousands of spectacular photos posted on these forums by Rebel/xxxD owners make me question the NEED for spot metering.
NickMJr
Senior Member
If you were to see my grandmothers hair (the area I assume you calling blown highlights) with your eyes and her skin tone thats exactly as you would have seen if. Had I purposedly under exposed it her skin tone would have looked unnaturally dark.Who would want to buy a camera that superimposes a 1%, 2.5% and 9%
red circle right across your subjects face?
(p.s. Before anyone replies, yeah I know it doesn't really but I
know you have to spell sarcasm out for some)
FWIW, I think that the 9% would have metered as evenly as the 1%
spot in this example, if you'd been a little further out so the 9%
encompassed more black top and window then not quite so but all
your example highlights to me is that spot is not so critical when
you have a 9% spot, again, this is digital, you can immediately
preview and make changes anyway.
Blown highlights are not always bad, they occur with everyday, unless you live somewhere where the sun never shines. If you took a picture of a perfectly white object in the sun would you undersexpose it to look grey??
So if there is something that is completely bright White when viewed with your eyes why should you purposely under expose it so its not "Blown"?
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M
Bambi Brown
Leading Member
If you read carefully enough you would have seen that I was saying the Canon D40 is crippled enough already. At 2.5% spot doesn't make up for those other missing features. I'll stick with the 9% spot.
P
Patco
Guest
OK, I gve up - what is a Canon D40?
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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels
You don't always have to underexpose to eliminate clipped highlights; this is why you have software. If you shoot raw, I can almost guarantee you could have recovered the highlights that are clipped in your photo. Why would you want to do this? Because you can then see the details that really are there, but can't be seen in your clipped photo.
A histogram is much, much more useful than a spotmeter.
Would I mind if Canon put a spotmeter in Drebels; no I wouldn't. Would I use the spotmeter? Probably not; the histogram and PP work much better IMHO.
Good luck to you,
jgb
Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/jon_b
A histogram is much, much more useful than a spotmeter.
Would I mind if Canon put a spotmeter in Drebels; no I wouldn't. Would I use the spotmeter? Probably not; the histogram and PP work much better IMHO.
Good luck to you,
jgb
--
Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/jon_b
its not a spot meter
not the same as the 20d
buttons andexposure bracketing, a sophisticated 9-point autofocus system
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buckwheat was my hero
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